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  1. #326
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    i'm talking basketball

    if you get the impression that i come off as tough, then good. i'm not acting.

    you come off like a .
    No, I get the impression that you're a loser try-hard. There's a difference.

  2. #327
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    Didn't see the game. How comfortable did Pau look out there, especially on defense? With all this talk about the bench it'd be nice to see our new starter fit in quickly.

  3. #328
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I'm just sayin, 1, it's preseason... these stats are as meaningless as summer league stats. 2, Manu has never been a selfish me first guy. And I know your guy is sort of in compe ion with him on that 2nd unit, but again Manu has never been a selfish guy. Him wanting to be important to the team (or as I think he meant, helpful/impactful) is a good thing. Him losing his fire cause we have some young prospects would not be good. 3, again.. its pre season.

    You are en led to your opinion of course,. History however disagrees with what you're trying to push here. If you go back and look at other preseason stats and leaders from previous seasons, you'll see what even having this theory from 1 game just screams of over-reacting. Especially without seeing the game
    As you have seen in other comments I have made here my concern is about them as a whole. They won't survive with flashback Manu taking 35% of the possessions while he's playing (making 40% of those shots isn't exactly flashback though). If anyone else did that it would be an issue. They have to find some balance and right now they don't have it.

  4. #329
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Didn't see the game. How comfortable did Pau look out there, especially on defense? With all this talk about the bench it'd be nice to see our new starter fit in quickly.
    I don't think anyone saw it, unless they were at the game is my guess. It wasn't shown anywhere, no streams.

  5. #330
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    Murray is talented. In fact he reminds me a whole lot of Manu except he can't finish in the paint like Manu could so he shouldn't be forcing so many bad shots. He has a low percentage shooting in the paint, s It's not like he can go Tony and Manu and consume all these possessions just bc he can get into the thick of things. The current state of f his game as far as finishing requires that he plays smarter. He was benched for taking bad shots against the Suns but he's very talented and he can pass to the big on the PnR better than JSimms which together with his youth gives me hope for him. He's just got to get better at his own game and will require tough coaching.
    The Spurs have really "invested" very little in Simmons. I think he is gone - in favor of any number of young guys. I am just praying that Pop fast tracks Murray (as he did Tony - even with the "tough love"), for a lot of reasons. At any rate I think Pop will scrap the Simmons experiment in favor of the Lapro experiment or the Garino experiment or even the Forbes experiment. What Pop will do with the Deadman experiment is anybody's guess.

  6. #331
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    No, I get the impression that you're a loser try-hard. There's a difference.
    wrong again, nothing new.

  7. #332
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    It's a mess with 2 bigs who can't shoot regardless... perhaps that explains Manu taking so many shots more than anything else.
    On defense opponents will just be able to smother our perimeter guys and ignore the PnP. With the particular mix of the Spurs' potential second unit, I really fear the offense will struggle.

  8. #333
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    On defense opponents will just be able to smother our perimeter guys and ignore the PnP. With the particular mix of the Spurs' potential second unit, I really fear the offense will struggle.
    At one time couldn't Lee shoot well? Was that a long time ago or am I imagining things?

  9. #334
    Believe.
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    Went to the game and although it's harder for me to gauge things in-person rather than watching on TV, I figured I'd at least post my game thoughts.

    Coaching
    Just an opinion, but Ime seems like the appropriate choice over the other coaches. He gives off a confidence that you don't see with Borrego.

    Starters
    It's obvious that cohesiveness will increase throughout the season, but they looked better out of the half than at tip-off. LMA, Kawhi, and Parker carried the starters offensively. I felt bad for Pau because he wasn't really needed (at least this game); hopefully that doesn't affect his at ude. There was a concerted effort to evenly distribute possessions, with the posting up of Pau/LMA/Kawhi.

    Bench
    Looks as if Patty and Manu will start checking in at the same time off the bench. Spurs rolled with the unit most expected: Patty, Manu, Anderson, Lee, Dedmon. Won't really comment on Patty and Manu as they're known commodities. I don't have an opinion on Lee, other than at points during the game him and Humphries were going at each other - which I found entertaining. Dedmon, on the other hand, was hard to find positives for. His hands were horrible. Hopefully that was just this one game, but his hands were the take-away for me. Patty checked back in ~2 minutes left in the half to play with the starters, which was surprising. But then Ime played the rest of the bench as well to close the half.

    New Crew
    Laprovitolla seemed a bit overwhelmed and turned it over off a bad pass the minute he checked in. Murray was pretty much himself. He checks in with his 'swagger' and confidence but his weaknesses are obvious. Guy has tunnel vision and rarely made the pass; he can get to the rim but isn't strong enough to finish. He definitely has Jamal Crawford vibes. I have no evidence to support my opinion, but I'm tempted to say Joel Anthony looked better than Dedmon. Bertans was the guy I was most excited to see; he delivered and was the best out of the new Spurs. He seems extremely confident, even without showing it. His size is clear once you see him standing at the free throw line. He came in and drained shots which he has to do (unlike Forbes tonight) and ran the floor for his put back slam.

  10. #335
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    At one time couldn't Lee shoot well? Was that a long time ago or am I imagining things?
    Without researching the question, I think you are about halfway right. Seems like he had a fair "jumper" () from the elbow when he was with the Knicks.

  11. #336
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    Went to the game and although it's harder for me to gauge things in-person rather than watching on TV, I figured I'd at least post my game thoughts.

    Coaching
    Just an opinion, but Ime seems like the appropriate choice over the other coaches. He gives off a confidence that you don't see with Borrego.

    Starters
    It's obvious that cohesiveness will increase throughout the season, but they looked better out of the half than at tip-off. LMA, Kawhi, and Parker carried the starters offensively. I felt bad for Pau because he wasn't really needed (at least this game); hopefully that doesn't affect his at ude. There was a concerted effort to evenly distribute possessions, with the posting up of Pau/LMA/Kawhi.

    Bench
    Looks as if Patty and Manu will start checking in at the same time off the bench. Spurs rolled with the unit most expected: Patty, Manu, Anderson, Lee, Dedmon. Won't really comment on Patty and Manu as they're known commodities. I don't have an opinion on Lee, other than at points during the game him and Humphries were going at each other - which I found entertaining. Dedmon, on the other hand, was hard to find positives for. His hands were horrible. Hopefully that was just this one game, but his hands were the take-away for me. Patty checked back in ~2 minutes left in the half to play with the starters, which was surprising. But then Ime played the rest of the bench as well to close the half.

    New Crew
    Laprovitolla seemed a bit overwhelmed and turned it over off a bad pass the minute he checked in. Murray was pretty much himself. He checks in with his 'swagger' and confidence but his weaknesses are obvious. Guy has tunnel vision and rarely made the pass; he can get to the rim but isn't strong enough to finish. He definitely has Jamal Crawford vibes. I have no evidence to support my opinion, but I'm tempted to say Joel Anthony looked better than Dedmon. Bertans was the guy I was most excited to see; he delivered and was the best out of the new Spurs. He seems extremely confident, even without showing it. His size is clear once you see him standing at the free throw line. He came in and drained shots which he has to do (unlike Forbes tonight) and ran the floor for his put back slam.
    Thanks for the assessment man. Much appreciated.

  12. #337
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I think ego is the wrong choice of words. He is a fierce compe ior. If he had such an ego, he would've left years ago to a team where his stats would better reflect the player he was.

    He took 10 shots, but without watching it's tough to say anything about it. I saw early on, Pau was working in the post and kicking out to shooters. We just don't know the flow of the game. It's so early and people are forming such strong oponions that PATFO don't even have yet lol

    Manu will be who he is. If he feels he needs to score, he'll attack. If he needs to be more of a facilitator he will do that it doesn't mean Anderson or anyone else is less important or anything, but that's just the compe or Manu is, and he has Pop's trust to go out and do what's best for the team
    You gotta add that if he feels "important" it's because that's the message PATFO sent to him. There's no doubt they paid "whatever it took" to keep him for, at least, one more season. The only conclusion you can draw from that is that PATFO feels he's that important to the team.

    I don't really get the narratives about Manu's ego. This guy has probably sacrificed the most out of the big 3 in that department throughout his career.

  13. #338
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    Without researching the question, I think you are about halfway right. Seems like he had a fair "jumper" () from the elbow when he was with the Knicks.
    Yeah, I knew there was something. Still, LMA he ain't.

  14. #339
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    Went to the game and although it's harder for me to gauge things in-person rather than watching on TV, I figured I'd at least post my game thoughts.

    Coaching
    Just an opinion, but Ime seems like the appropriate choice over the other coaches. He gives off a confidence that you don't see with Borrego.

    Starters
    It's obvious that cohesiveness will increase throughout the season, but they looked better out of the half than at tip-off. LMA, Kawhi, and Parker carried the starters offensively. I felt bad for Pau because he wasn't really needed (at least this game); hopefully that doesn't affect his at ude. There was a concerted effort to evenly distribute possessions, with the posting up of Pau/LMA/Kawhi.

    Bench
    Looks as if Patty and Manu will start checking in at the same time off the bench. Spurs rolled with the unit most expected: Patty, Manu, Anderson, Lee, Dedmon. Won't really comment on Patty and Manu as they're known commodities. I don't have an opinion on Lee, other than at points during the game him and Humphries were going at each other - which I found entertaining. Dedmon, on the other hand, was hard to find positives for. His hands were horrible. Hopefully that was just this one game, but his hands were the take-away for me. Patty checked back in ~2 minutes left in the half to play with the starters, which was surprising. But then Ime played the rest of the bench as well to close the half.

    New Crew
    Laprovitolla seemed a bit overwhelmed and turned it over off a bad pass the minute he checked in. Murray was pretty much himself. He checks in with his 'swagger' and confidence but his weaknesses are obvious. Guy has tunnel vision and rarely made the pass; he can get to the rim but isn't strong enough to finish. He definitely has Jamal Crawford vibes. I have no evidence to support my opinion, but I'm tempted to say Joel Anthony looked better than Dedmon. Bertans was the guy I was most excited to see; he delivered and was the best out of the new Spurs. He seems extremely confident, even without showing it. His size is clear once you see him standing at the free throw line. He came in and drained shots which he has to do (unlike Forbes tonight) and ran the floor for his put back slam.
    Many thanks for the observations! In truth, Murray would not be the first Spurs PG with tunnel vision... Just sayin'. I would love to see the team pick up a guy who really was a pass-first PG with great court vision.

  15. #340
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    It's more that he likes to be the one facilitating. If Anderson and Simmons were like Korver and Ariza, then that would be great. But they are both guys who need the ball, so Manu "making plays for them" isn't likely to get the best out of them -- especially Anderson, as he's not a slasher and will want to post-up and face-up for most his points.
    Let's just be clear that if Anderson doesn't blossom, it has zero to do with Manu. It has to do with how Pop wants the bench to run and assign priorities and how Anderson performs outside what can be considered his comfort zone.

    If Kyle "is not a good fit next to Manu" or "is not a good fit next to Patty", then that neither Manu or Patty's fault (nor really Anderson).

  16. #341
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    Yeah, I knew there was something. Still, LMA he ain't.
    Nor was he ever!

  17. #342
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    Nor was he ever!

  18. #343
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    Remember that he got dominated by Papagiannis over in Greece. Georgios is someone I like quite a bit, but that's the level Milutinov would have be at for me to say he's a rotational center.

    Dominated?

    Not the footage I watched. It was quite even and the issues Milutinov had were with his size, not skill related.

  19. #344
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    Anderson played with Leonard as a two last night so its possible they're looking to stagger his minutes with other twos beside Ginobili.

    There is really no reason for Ginobili to give up touches when he's playing the bench, no one in the bench is as effective as he is. Neither Anderson and Simmons can run our bench and Mills already gets his touches.

    The problem with both Anderson and Simmons and its going to be a lingering problem unless they improve to a certain point that they are better than Manu is that they're most effective with the ball..and with Manu-Parker-Leonard in the team..thats almpst immpossible.

    When's the last time a contender planned around the 8th best player as an offense?

    I didnt watch the game. I know sometimes Manu can Hog the Ball even when plays with the starters...But playing with the bench, there is no reason for him to give up any responsibilities if hes still the best player in the bench.


    This team still wants to contend not rebuild.

  20. #345
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    The Spurs have really "invested" very little in Simmons. I think he is gone - in favor of any number of young guys. I am just praying that Pop fast tracks Murray (as he did Tony - even with the "tough love"), for a lot of reasons. At any rate I think Pop will scrap the Simmons experiment in favor of the Lapro experiment or the Garino experiment or even the Forbes experiment. What Pop will do with the Deadman experiment is anybody's guess.
    The way bench players trying to make the team got in this game tells us where the concerns are: Anthony the first bc Deadman is busting, then Lapro bc Pop is giving Murray the tough love (and he's looking like more of a SG than a PG to be fair to Murray). They still gave a look to Forbes which tells me shooting from the SG spot is still a concern I imagine if Manu is sitting a game (they didn't give a second look to Garino for example).

  21. #346
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    They really need to trade simmons for anything...the dude is 27 years old

    Still useless in defense...hopefully is out by february.

    He's done. If they can get a second rounder for him..that wpuld be fantastic.

  22. #347
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Let's just be clear that if Anderson doesn't blossom, it has zero to do with Manu. It has to do with how Pop wants the bench to run and assign priorities and how Anderson performs outside what can be considered his comfort zone.

    If Kyle "is not a good fit next to Manu" or "is not a good fit next to Patty", then that neither Manu or Patty's fault (nor really Anderson).
    I am sorry if I gave that impression. I think they have issues as a unit that start with their bigs and extend to Simmons not being reliable right now (thus pushing him to play as a swingman more often and maybe for the majority of his minutes). I think he's going to have to play whatever the team needs (even if it's not his strong suit) just bc he's swung in between different positions already before and the team has bigger issues than him right now.

    I do hope his shot is improved bc it's needed with what they currently have and are doing. It's not the best for him optimally, but it's probably the best for the current makeup of the team.

  23. #348
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Let's just be clear that if Anderson doesn't blossom, it has zero to do with Manu. It has to do with how Pop wants the bench to run and assign priorities and how Anderson performs outside what can be considered his comfort zone.

    If Kyle "is not a good fit next to Manu" or "is not a good fit next to Patty", then that neither Manu or Patty's fault (nor really Anderson).
    Anderson should be a fine fit next to Patty. But he and Manu don't go together. You're right that it would be on Pop most of all if Anderson or Simmons were good enough to be the lead for the bench and Manu didn't recognize that. But it would have more than zero to do with Ginobili as well.

  24. #349
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    The way bench players trying to make the team got in this game tells us where the concerns are: Anthony the first bc Deadman is busting, then Lapro bc Pop is giving Murray the tough love (and he's looking like more of a SG than a PG to be fair to Murray). They still gave a look to Forbes which tells me shooting from the SG spot is still a concern I imagine if Manu is sitting a game (they didn't give a second look to Garino for example).
    Agreed, except without a good 3-ball Murray looks like as much of a project at SG as PG.

  25. #350
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    Anderson played with Leonard as a two last night so its possible they're looking to stagger his minutes with other twos beside Ginobili.

    There is really no reason for Ginobili to give up touches when he's playing the bench, no one in the bench is as effective as he is. Neither Anderson and Simmons can run our bench and Mills already gets his touches.

    The problem with both Anderson and Simmons and its going to be a lingering problem unless they improve to a certain point that they are better than Manu is that they're most effective with the ball..and with Manu-Parker-Leonard in the team..thats almpst immpossible.

    When's the last time a contender planned around the 8th best player as an offense?

    I didnt watch the game. I know sometimes Manu can Hog the Ball even when plays with the starters...But playing with the bench, there is no reason for him to give up any responsibilities if hes still the best player in the bench.


    This team still wants to contend not rebuild.
    They may want to contend, but competing against the Dubs and Cavs (and possibly others) with a 39-year-old bench leader is a real uphill battle.

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