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Rotations will be set within the next 5-10 games or so; Pop is clearly evaluating.
How many years of play do we need to know what these players are though? I've been as high on Keldon as anyone but if you're running your offense through him then its not going to be very good. Do we really need to see ANOTHER year of that to understand it? I was a proponent of trying Sochan at point guard, but he is just mimicing what Keldon does and taking inefficient shots in the paint. I honestly don't think we need to see more of that this year because while I was OK with it, atrociousness of it so far has made me understand its never going to work. While I think at times he showed some vision last year, this season is almost entirely devoid of it and the time with him at PG is just really awful. Do we expect Zach Collins to take magical steps forward?
It would be one thing if we were talking about someone who could turn out to be a key factor going forward like Blake Wesley but he's not even playing. We're a team that is obviously not trying to win and have no point guards and the one young point guard prospect we have can't even see the floor! This is literally the 3rd year in a row of "lets see what we have" with this core. They are what they are and while a few are not awful pieces we don't need to spend a year running inefficent bully ball to know that for sure. If anything I want to see what we have with them acting as role players to the biggest obvious talent on the team.
What is frustrating isn't that we're losing, it's that we're doing incredibly stupidly and just doing everything we did last year as if we didn't just get a guy that could potentially make an All NBA team as a ing ROOKIE! Its just ing insanity.
Rotations will be set within the next 5-10 games or so; Pop is clearly evaluating.
that went as expected ... yikes
Tony was scorching a peak Gary Payton in the playoffs as a rookie and averaging 21/5/4 through 3 games in the ing NBA Finals against Jason Kidd in his second year, which people for some reason forget in favour of maintaining theSpeedy Claxton
The core of frustration is somewhat two-fold, both folds arguably unfair for us to about, one definitely is.
OK, Spurs didn''t have a really good player to pair with Wemby. Thats something the Spurs couldn't control, and if they had a good player already, they probably wouldn't have Wemby.
The other fold though, is that it appears staff had no inkling of an idea of what they would do with the billion-dollar prospect of they happened to draw him. It is arguable that they shouldn't have any idea, and it's arguable that they have an idea but are just letting things happen for the sake of experimentation.
Either way, a plan or the illusion of a plan of how to start pointing Wemby in the best direction better start to form. If the fans are loud and impatient, wait until the media decides Vic needs an uncle, cause that time will be here before long.
The team should at least look like coaches prepared them for the game. They didn't look prepared tonight, and that is what is triggering people. Most don't really care that we had less points than the other team in a November game. It's the tragic look of the team composition and the appearance that we are going to waste Vic, as if we are the Knicks, that is ultimately bugging people.
It's arguable that we shouldn't be worried the Spurs are wasting him 7 games into a season, but it's also arguable and likely that most of the world wants Vic to have an uncle. The Spurs need to not be looking stupid. People are watching.
I hope they left Jeremy Sochan in Indy. Maybe he can work at a hair salon or something over there.
Lol we losing wemby sooner rather than later was fun while it lasted
Tony was elite at speed and finishing at the rim, but once teams figured out he couldn’t shoot, they backed off him and I remember the Lakers just shutting him down. It took probably 3-4 years for him to get a workable jumper. And that was when he became the top offensive player on the team and an all NBA player.Tony was scorching a peak Gary Payton in the playoffs as a rookie and averaging 21/5/4 through 3 games in the ing NBA Finals against Jason Kidd in his second year, which people for some reason forget in favour of maintaining the
Just by example, Sochan has played one year in the NBA but never probably in his life has he played PG. But he’s tall, he can handle the ball ok, and he can move his feet and guard perimeter players. Give him the same time you gave Tony, and then judge him. He’ll have 20+ points a game this season. And I’ll bet he has 10 assist games. Maybe he’ll never be a PG but why quit after 7 games? I mean if he could be a 6’8 PG, that would be very handy. And he’s one of the 5 best players on the roster so they need to find a way to get him on the court since his PF minutes go to Wemby.
that's it
he will request a trade tomorrow
Sochan couldn't start for his college team and yet he was drafted high and put into the rotation as a rookie, based on his physical abilities, not his skillset. He may well develop some skills and find his natural position, but I doubt it will be this year. He is being rushed into a position in the NBA at a pace far beyond his current abilities. What happens when the coaching braintrust finally decides he just may not make it as a PG? I hope it doesn't ruin him.
A PG needs to be able to drive really good, or pass really good... Sohan can't do either... U either have it or don't... Secondly, what drives me crazy is there's no offensive structure based around Wemby's talents... They're just playing pick up ball... Don't let Duncan fool u... Guys WILL leave... It's one thing if Wemby misses a ton of shots in his spots in a structured offense... It's another thing if he doesn't look like he will get to shoot more than 10 times a game unless he calls his own number half of the time
But he can defend the smaller sized PG.
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I just watched the game. Terrible loss/performance from these guys. Not sure if they were physically tired, mentally drained from last night's loss, or both. Not sure what to say about that, but I agree with a lot of what you said. Some of these guys have had enough time to prove if they're going to be great or not, and/or what they're capable of doing (referring to Keldon here). Maybe he deserves a bit more time as maybe he can still grow into a playmaking role. I am also not sure why the Spurs are forcing Sochan to play PG.
BTW, do you really think Blake Wesley is a legit possible PG prospect for the team going forward?
The "they are what they are" thing, I'm not sure that applies to everyone. What about Devin Vassell. He's really showing some serious improvement and he's been here a few years now too. It looks like he's taking a bit step forward this season if he can stay healthy. I do agree with the point about seeing how a lot of these players can play as role players around Victor rather than treating Victor as just one of the guys. That is the stupidest thing I've seen so far. Victor and Devin are the two best players on the team, everyone else should be playing around them, not Vic trying to fit in as one of the guys.
Two 40-point losses in the last 5 games and two 20-point comebacks in the last 2, last night was another unwatchable game.
Really there was not many PG free agents this offseason, Dennis Schroder and Vincent.
Other players that could be available for trade
- Brogdon: Injury prone, will cost 1FRP and not in our timeline.
- Killian Hayes: Is playing more time with Monty and he will be restricted free agent next season.
- Immanuel Quickley: He wants $25M per season, he is more a scorer than floor general.
- Tyus Jones: He is not performing so well in Wash.
What an ugly game. Spurs bounce back well after the huge loss @ Clippers, we'll see if they are able to do the same this time.
Spurs have still a long way to go before being a contender:
- Wembanyama: He is a awesome you players. He still has a lot to learn, which is logical at 19, but he should be top5 players quite qucikly.
- Vassell: If he stays healthy, he would be a great third option. He doesn't have the ballhandling/creativity to be more.
- Keldon Johnson: He has a narrow window of utility for a team. He can't carry too much offensive load like last season showed, but he also isn't a good role player because he isn't a great shooter and defender. He is currently fine with the team but it might not last. Trading him will likely be the right move in the future.
- Zach Collins: he is a 20mpg rotation big and nothing more. He is a quite good offensive player but he too limited physically to be a defensive/rebounding force which is a big issue for a center.
- Tre Jones: a 15 mpg average backup PG.
- Sochan: Hard to say with the PG bull , to be determined...
- Rest of the roster: I don't see a diamond in the rough among them for the moment.
This is so true. The reality is maybe there is one future Wemby teammate on the roster. The rest are literally too flawed to be of any use on a playoff team. They need to try to pull off a trade for their future number two (“robin”) this year somehow or this year will be a complete failure.
This team is severely lacking talent...One positive note is that Wemby looks better than advertised if that was even possible. His basketball instincts/skills/feel for the game is off the charts for a 19 year old and the crazy thing is that he could easily be averaging 4+ blocks a game but opposing players rarely challenge Wemby
Running the offense through Keldon is just stupid. This isn't tank for Wemby times, it's just asinine to put the ball in his hands and expect offensive greatness.
I looked up the age and usage rate for each of the players on your list in their rookie seasons. It's quite the mixed bag.
Doncic: age 19, USG% 30.5
Tatum: age 19, USG% 19.4
LeBron: age 18, USG% 28.8
Jokic: age 20, USG% 19.9
Curry: age 21, USG% 21.8
Giannis: age 19, USG% 15.0
Durant: age 19, USG% 28.1
Embiid: age 22, USG% 36.0
Wemby: age 19, USG% 30.5
Embiid is the outlier here, but he was also 22 in his first season. The other players on this list had high usage rates by their age 22 season.
A usage rate of 30.5% as a 19-year-old rookie is pretty high. I'm not sure what the expectation is here.
Usage looks high because Wemby is taking loads of frustration 3s right now. Watching the game shows a much different story than just looking at stats
It's because people think Wemby needs to shoot 50 times a game and that somehow will lead the Spurs to 50 regular season wins and the playoffs. Wemby sees the ball a lot and as he gets better adjusted and as the team feels more comfortable giving him 30+ minutes, he'll get more shots than he is now, but if it turns into a one man team, the Spurs will lose every game.
I find it funny how the rest of the NBA has taken note that the Spurs have good, young players and they have tons of draft picks. Logic holds that you can't sign every one of your draft picks to big salaries. So you have to evaluate where you are going to invest your salary cap money. Wemby and Vassell are obvious. Everyone else is being evaluated. But seriously, people need to give lottery picks more than a year to develop. Most NBA players need at three years to develop into a good NBA player. That's why rookie contracts are for three years and then options. People don't get that this team was never going to win 40 games and probably not more than 30. The Spurs have said they will be patient in building around Wemby. Let's see what we have instead of being reactive and running out and paying VanVleet, Brooks, Jock Landale, and Green so we can barely make the play in and have no upside down the road.
Looking at his season totals, he is:
- 36-67 from two
- 12-37 from three
- 37 FTA (including 5 and ones, for ~16 possessions used)
- 25 turnovers
That's a total of 67 + 37 + 16 + 25 = 145 possessions used, out of about 475 (145 / 0.305) that the Spurs have had total while he's on the floor. That might not be exact but it shouldn't be far off.
Let's say 13 of those 3PA (around 1/3) were out of frustration, and if he hadn't taken those he would have used up 28% of those possessions himself instead of 100%. Now his total possessions used would be 145 - 13 + 0.28 * 13, or around 136.
Out of 475 total possessions that's a usage rate of 28.6%, for a difference of 1.9%. Not an insignificant difference, but still well above players like Jokic, Tatum, and Giannis in their rookie seasons.
I have watched most of the total minutes the Spurs have played this year, mainly missing the first half against Dallas and the second halves against the Clippers and Pacers. In case you're trying to imply that I haven't watched the games. But I didn't watch much of the rookie seasons of the other players you mentioned so usage rate seemed like the best way to compare them to Wemby.
If Wemby is jacking up frustration 3s then that's on him. He shouldn't.
You misunderstood. I’m not talking about these guys according to their rookie year. I mean Wemby is a top 10 player NOW. None of those guys were rookie year. Wemby is that special. He’s not Duncan rookie year but I expect him to be damn close.
It’s not the usage I have the problem with. It’s where we get him the ball. If you’re 7’4 guy is in the post calling for the ball and you can’t inbound pass to him so he has to go to the 3 point line to get that ball, that is usage, but not proper usage. Also to those people saying well we expect him to shoot 50 times a game. How about not be outshot by Zack Collins and KJ. We can start with that. I had called Wemby would get outshot in games by Vassell and KJ but I never thought Zach Collins would be averaging only 3 shots less. That’s insane.
Also Sochan isn’t a PG. you could give him 5 years and it wouldn’t change that fact. It’s ok. Im not ting on Sochan. It just seems like I am bc I said he is a high energy bench guy and not a PG. A good bench is vital for a winning team and Sochan can one day work his way to our starting PF once he gets a jump shot
ALL of this!!
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