Good point on swapping early, and I don't think I'm overrating Butler. This kid has a knack for scoring in the low post and getting rebounds. I chalk it up to "out of sight, out of mind" syndrome.
Agreed on Butler having more trade value than Scola, especially in the short term since he can actually play THIS year.
About Scola though, it was my impression that he wanted to come across the pond a couple years ago and was dissapointed when a buyout didn't materialize. You don't think he'd play for the Spurs, or any NBA team for that matter, if he was offered a 3yr, $10M deal?
Not if his buy-out remains $4-6M. Sounds like he wants Garbajosa money (3-year $12-14M) before he even figures out what the actual buy-out from his team will be.
A team trading for Scola would have to wait 16 months to see if it's possible to sign a 28-year-old short power forward to a contract equal to that of a high lottery pick. Don't expect to see many teams lining up.
In terms of swapping up in the first round, which was my point, yes, Scola has more value than Butler, because he's a better player and can contribute right away, other than the fact he doesn't require swapped salary.
You're still overrating Butler. He's looked like absolute caca so far this year. That doesn't tend to rub GM's prostrates like fingers of joy. He will obviously get to be better than that, but I'd say his value is close to nil at this point. He's filler.
If by right away you mean perhaps the summer of 2008, then you might be on to something.
And Scola is the probably the better player right now, then again he's seven years older and looking for a contract twice as expensive as the one Butler got.
Ah yes, the 20 minutes he's played this season. I'm sure GMs will be looking to see how he played in his one minute garbage time stretches as opposed to what he did last year when he was given ample time.
It's amazing how you hyped up Javtokas and Butler in the offseason and now that they're in situations where they aren't playing many minutes, you've written them off. The truth is that both players are the same as they were six months ago.
Butler is the odd man out in a championship level NBA team. Javtokas is the odd man out in a championship level Greek team. That doesn't mean both of them are garbage.
I didn't say Butler was garbage. I do, however, find it alarming what a dismal motor he has when he gets in games. I hope it's because he's thinking too much, but more he's looked like Ferdinand the Bull.
My point is Scola has value now and in the near future, and it's much more likely teams are interested in him. Buyout aside. Scola has much more potential as an NBA player than Butler does, even at seven years older. His age may even be attractive to some teams who are making a run now. If I were a Chicago, I'd much rather have Scola than Butler.
mmm what about gelabale + watson for beno + fin ?
decent pg + promising 2/3 for what we try to throw away :p
If you lost 30 pounds of mass that helped you establish position in the low-post for scoring and rebounding, then were given 2 garbage minutes in 5 total games....how would I rate you?
The point is that JB is still trying to adjust and no one can make a judgement on how good he is based on this years production...or lack thereof
You're cleverly devaluating Scola with assumptions and words like "short" and "28"
He may be undersized and he may be older than your typical rookie (26 until Apr 30), but he has talent and he aint that old. Still, I agree with you that his buyout and potential salary is an issue for those who trade for him.
The Watson trade idea has been discussed....
Bottom Line: Too much salary + too many years for a 12mpg guy.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/spo...y_arroyo_.html
Unhappy Arroyo: I don't want to go anywhere else
Posted on Jan 24, 2007 11:27:35 AM
Magic point guard Carlos Arroyo is not a happy camper, but he says he has no plans to ask for a trade. For the time being, he has lost his job to Travis Diener as the backup point guard to Jameer Nelson.
"I'm not thinking like that," Arroyo told me after the Magic lost to the Dallas Mavericks Tuesday night.
"I want to stay here. My feelings are the same as when I got here. I want to help this team win, and I love the support from the Puerto Rican community."
Arroyo discounted a rumor that he had gone on a local radio or TV station and asked the Magic to trade him. Asked if he has suggested to the franchise that the Magic trade him, Arroyo said, "I've never been like that."
Make no mistake: Arroyo is not happy -- a total reversal of fortune since he was traded to the Magic by the Detroit Pistons last season. He played well, became a fan favorite with his Hispanic ties and helped the Magic finish the season with a 16-6 kick.
But a shooting slump and some indecisive play led Coach Brian Hill to bench him as Nelson's backup, and he has not played in three of the past four games.
"I feel like I'm being punished for a bad shooting streak," Arroyo said. "I've never been punished for that. I feel like I've done everything they've asked me to do."
Arroyo, who has played with five teams in his six NBA seasons, has met with Hill several times. "It's his decision," Arroyo said.
Figured that his love for the Puerto Rican community would keep him tied to the South Florida area, but the bottom line is that he doesn't have a no-trade clause in his contract and would have to find the Puerto Rican community wherever he went.
Clarions go off.Arroyo, who has played with five teams in his six NBA seasons
Didn't Chauncey Billups play for several teams before he settled into the right situation?Arroyo, who has played with five teams in his six NBA seasons, has met with Hill several times. "It's his decision," Arroyo said.
By all means, I'm not comparing Arroyo to Billups, just making the correlation that being moved around does not necessarily have to do with a person's character or overall worth.
I think he's in a situation again where his worth is not being adequately judged because there are three other options. He could be very good as the Spurs backup, and though he may be somewhat expensive ($4M), his contract length is only for this year and the next.
I figure he's the Spurs' best available option because he could be had for relatively nothing - cap space.
Agree with Phat tony. Arroyo would be a better backup than Beno. He may be had on the cheap now. What would Orlando want from the spurs?
Put Arroyo in a good situation where he gains some confidence and he will do well. He had many good games with Utah when he was a starter.
The trade the spurs need to make is Beno and Finley to the Clippers for Sam Cassell.
Sam will give the spurs a great mid range jumpshot and add some huevos to the lineup.
it seems like gollum has been in the league for a long time, i wonder how many years does he have left.
Cassell makes LA hum. They win when he plays well. I can't see them giving him up so easily, if at all.
yeah i agree he aint goin no where
Cassells would be great. He is a winner and his jump shot is VERY consistent and clutch. He also can pass and create openings....very smart player. Basically a slower, less flashier version of Nash.
We basically need a Dirk stopper (Najera for eg.) and a smart true Point Guard who can hit jumpers consistently to go all the way in my opinion.
Bonzi Wells is also a very good addition potentially....the guy has everything Spurs need -- small PF, good jumper, good post player, and can defend when he is motivated....however Gumby may not let him go to Spurs even if he doesn't like him as he knows that Spurs would really benefit by getting Wells...and Houston may meet Spurs in the playoffs so that would be a really stupid move on Houston's part to trade him and strengthen Spurs immeasurably. Some people worry about his at ude but I figure the guy is a compe or and he is playing for a big contract...and once he is in the playoffs, he will hustle his bag off to win the ring in my opinion.
He's currently the lowest on the totem pole for minutes among guards...and it's a long list. The Vinsanity rumors to Orlando after he opts out are persistent and the Magic would love an extra $4M in cap space to facilitate that coming true. Based on his current value, I'd say Williams' expiring contract and one of the three possible 2nd rounders should do it.
Good ideas, but not very reasonable given what the Spurs have to trade with. You're right to doubt Wells being traded to a contender if Houston is still in the convo. The same goes for the newly rejuvinated Nuggets giving up an asset to a contender when they think they can be in the race.
The other peeps are right about Cassell, even though he doesn't start anymore, being a key player on that team (a la Duhon w/ the Bulls).
Stipulation: Clips may go into salary dump mode if they think they're out of it and if they can get something in return (pick/prospect).
Bottom Line: Not saying all of the trades are impossible, but that the Spurs only have enough assets to rectify one, maybe two if they're lucky, of their problems with what they've got.
Carlos Arroyo would be intriguing. A decent risk, some reward, stands up to the 2008 Plan. Wonder if they'd be packaging Udrih out the other door at the same time. Probably.
It's possible. Didn't the 76ers have interest in him at one point? I'm sure we could pawn Udrih off on them for a 2nd rounder and a guy like Shavlik Randolph or Alan Henderson....maybe a straight-up trade for a guy like Louis Williams.
EDIT: It certainly wouldn't be to the Magic, since they have a glut of PGs already...
Last edited by AFBlue; 01-25-2007 at 03:12 PM.
No they didn't. It was a misreport.
The Philly paper actually went to the trouble of re-tracting it the next day, saying the Sixers didn't have an interest.
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