Wade on Dirk

[ponky]

Could not have said it better myself Dirk is not a Champion when the chips are down until he proves otherwise.

well technically, nobody's a champion until they win the championship so you're right about that but that doesn't mean that dirk can't come through and win a big game. one of the most memorable series i'd been to as a mavs fan was back in 2001 when the mavericks beat the stockton/malone jazz after trailing two games in that series and being down 17 points in the elimination game. dirk was still wet behind the ears but he played incredible in that series and helped get the mavs back to the playoffs for the first time in 11 years. last year the suns were getting ready to take game five up by seven at the end of the third and dirk scored 22 of his 50 points in the fourth to take control and win a pivotal game for that series. he doesn't need to prove to anyone, especially a spurs fan who can't appreciate a good basketball player irrespective of his team.

[timvp]

well technically, nobody's a champion until they win the championship so you're right about that but that doesn't mean that dirk can't come through and win a big game. one of the most memorable series i'd been to as a mavs fan was back in 2001 when the mavericks beat the stockton/malone jazz after trailing two games in that series and being down 17 points in the elimination game. dirk was still wet behind the ears but he played incredible in that series

Really?

Dirk shot under 40% in that series and only had one game that he shot at least 50%. And the guy he was guarding, Olden Polynice, had a career series against him.

Michael Finley was the player who won that series. His performance in that Game 5 was legendary. Dirk shot 3-11 in that game.

[ponky]

Really?

Dirk shot under 40% in that series and only had one game that he shot at least 50%. And the guy he was guarding, Olden Polynice, had a career series against him.

Michael Finley was the player who won that series. His performance in that Game 5 was legendary. Dirk shot 3-11 in that game.

for a third year player he did alright, he may have not had the best fg % but he was 10-10 from the line and two of those fgs were 3s...i said SERIES, they came back from trailing 0-2 in the SERIES...don't discount his 33 points (5 threes) and 8 rebounds in game four and 33 points, 10 boards in game three.

it's easy to be selective about what you wanna use to diss dirk but lay all the cards on the table next time

[timvp]

for a third year player he did alright

Agreed. I was pointing out he wasn't "incredible" as you said. For his age he was good, but then again Duncan was winning championships at that age.

i said SERIES, they came back from trailing 0-2 in the SERIES

Dirk shot under 40% in that series

I laid the cards on the table in the first eight words of my post.






Anyways, Dirk has become a monster under AJ. No denying that.

And he'd be my vote for MVP.

[ponky]

Agreed. I was pointing out he wasn't "incredible" as you said. For his age he was good, but then again Duncan was winning championships at that age.






I laid the cards on the table in the first eight words of my post.






Anyways, Dirk has become a monster under AJ. No denying that.

And he'd be my vote for MVP.

haha, nobody's comparing him to your precious duncan who had a great player to team up with from the get go and a very lucky matchup against the 8th seeded knicks who were playing without their star (Ewing) and another key starter (LJ). posting two straight 33 point games to assist in getting a team that hadn't been to the playoffs in 11 years is impressive imo. everyone has his time and this is dirk's time and i think he's proven that he can be clutch, not everyone can do it everytime (e.g. duncan in the seventh game of last year) but that's no reason to diss dirk and say that he has to prove something (i'm not directing that last part at you, it was the reason for my original post)...btw, i'm not dissing duncan, he's one of the great ballers, it's just that some spurs fans get so defensive about him, they automatically think a mavs fan must be dissing him

[lefty]

Who gives a about a kings championship that happened so long time ago that you don't even remember the players.

Well at least they have one

[timvp]

haha, nobody's comparing him to your precious duncan who had a great player to team up with from the get go

One of Duncan or Dirk played with a two-time MVP in his first six seasons. And it wasn't Duncan.

Plus Finley was better than any perimeter player Duncan ever had before his second championship. If there is one team that can't run lack of talent smack, it's the Mavs.

Dallas has had a top three talented team for like seven years in a row now.

and a very lucky matchup against the 8th seeded knicks who were playing without their star (Ewing) and another key starter (LJ).

#1 - Very lucky matchup? Those Knicks would have demolished the Heat. The Heat last year were the worst team to make the Finals in 30 years.

#2 - Larry Johnson was injured? Where the did you get that? He played in every game that series.

Then again, that was before most Mav Fans watched basketball (not you specifically, of course).

posting two straight 33 point games to assist in getting a team that hadn't been to the playoffs in 11 years is impressive imo. everyone has his time and this is dirk's time and i think he's proven that he can be clutch, not everyone can do it everytime (e.g. duncan in the seventh game of last year) but that's no reason to diss dirk and say that he has to prove something (i'm not directing that last part at you, it was the reason for my original post)

This could very well be Dirk's time. Like I said, I believe he's the MVP this season. Last season, he should have won a championship. This year, I'd say he's the favorite to win a championship.

And yeah, he does still have more to prove, unless he got some kind of pass last year for almost winning a championship that I'm not aware of.

[Celtic Pride]

It's a shame Grandmama hurt his back. I wish he could have played longer. He is one of my All-Time favorite players, especially since he and I are alumni of Skyline in Dallas '87 - '88.

[timvp]

It's a shame Grandmama hurt his back. I wish he could have played longer. He is one of my All-Time favorite players, especially since he and I are alumni of Skyline in Dallas '87 - '88.

A "Celtic Fan" from Dallas who spends most of his time on this forum defending the Mavs?

Ri-ii-ii-ii-i-ight.

[Celtic Pride]

A "Celtic Fan" from Dallas who spends most of his time on this forum defending the Mavs?

Ri-ii-ii-ii-i-ight.

What would you rather me do? The Dallas Chapparalls became the San Antonio Spurs. The Spurs weren't on ABC in Dallas. The Celtics and Lakers were and my pops couldn't afford cable back in the day. So you root for who you can watch, kinda the same reason the Cowboys have fans all over the world. Not until 1980 did the Mavs come along. So if you think I defend the Mavs, then fine. Just remember that you can be a fan of more than one team. Right now my home team happens to be on top, and my Celts are on top in the Draft race.

[timvp]

What would you rather me do? The Dallas Chapparalls became the San Antonio Spurs. The Spurs weren't on ABC in Dallas. The Celtics and Lakers were and my pops couldn't afford cable back in the day. So you root for who you can watch, kinda the same reason the Cowboys have fans all over the world. Not until 1980 did the Mavs come along. So if you think I defend the Mavs, then fine. Just remember that you can be a fan of more than one team. Right now my home team happens to be on top, and my Celts are on top in the Draft race.

Good enough.

Just glad to figure out why a Celtic fan would defend a team from Texas. I'd never seen such a thing.

[Celtic Pride]

Don't tell nobody, but I have family all around Texas. Mostly Houston and some from close to SA. So when I would visit I got to see Moses Malone in Houston and Ice Man in SA. I actually like all 3 teams, but would like the Mavs to win the Championship at least 1 time. That way all 3 teams would have a trophy. I have never talked bad about any team, just a couple of players doing wrong.

[mabber]

Thought everyone might like to read this. I found it on another forum. What do you all think about this?

Posted by Whipit:

This is getting passed around and someone sent it to me this morning. Comments re Wade from around the league -

"He gets all the calls, that's what makes him special.'' - Gerald Wallace

"It's unbelievable what he gets away with.'' - Bob Hill

"I can't believe he has the audacity to complain to the refs, he should be grateful for what they've done for him in his career. He is what he is today because of them." - P.J. Brown

"He travels on that spin move," Jackson said. "He picks up that pivot foot... everybody knows it. Dwayne Wade can cover so much ground when he makes that move. As you know, he can go 20 feet with that spin move and get to the basket." - Phil Jackson

SportsNation Chris Sheridan: (12:40 PM ET ) You're preaching to the choir here, Oliver. every single night D-Wade gets three gift whistles (which even LeBron and Kobe don't get) at a minimum, and one or two late whistles, too. He's treated as preferrentially as Jordan was at the peak of his game, and it is infuriating to watch (unless you're a Heat fan). And I say all that being one of the biggest D-Wade guys around, a Marquette grad even. But it's just plain unfair to see one guy get such special treatment. It takes away from the game.

Marc Stein on Galloway & Co (1/30)
"No question about it that you definitely hear-- I've heard it from executives, I've heard it from coaches, that you just can't touch this guy[Wade]... but you know, the fact that players bring this up in games... I would say yeah it's a definite topic."
"Does Wade get calls that nobody else gets? Does he go to the line too much? Yes, no question."

"You can't do nothing to D-Wade. If you say 'boogety-boogety boo' to him, that's a foul. If you give him a hard look, that's a foul." -Rasheed Wallace
(He also comically took shots and flopped over acting injured. I'm not even joking. Link below)

Tracy McGrady went so far as to say the NBA finals might have been rigged in a radio interview the foul calls were so obviously in Miami's favor.

Sources:

Rasheed:
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archiv...-thats-a-foul/

Gerald Wallace:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlot...rlotte_bobcats

Bob Hill: http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/co...e/15995105.htm

Phil Jackson: http://www.latimes.com/sports/basket...iewed-homepage

'Sheed: http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/c...k.275f21f.html
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=537427

sheridan:
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog...sheridan_chris

Mark Stein:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...o+%281%2F30%29 (I can’t find a direct link to the podcast mp3 where he says this, but a google search shows it’s there).

Tracy McGrady's thoughts on Wade: http://odeo.com/audio/1597802/view

http://www.blogmaverick.com/2007/02/...wade-a-leader/ (Cubans recent comments)

These satirical articles from nbadraft.net and the brushback also do a good job of illustrating how the players and media around the league feel about Wade.

http://www.thebrushback.com/Archives/classy_full.htm

http://www.nbadraft.net/prevenas066.asp

http://dwil.wordpress.com/tag/nba-mentions/dwyane-wade/ (not so much satire as it is more of the same about the egregious calls Wade gets away with).

It's obvious (particularly after listening to Stein's comments) that the players and coaches around the league feel that Wade is receiving some biased/unfair treatment. On sports forums all over the net debates about Wade's preferential treatment routinely start up before and after games. , if you look at the statistics from last years finals something alarming comes up (here are the leaders in FTA per game for both teams from 1998 to 2006):

2006 NBAFINALS
Wade - 16.2
Dirk - 9.0

2005 NBAFINALS
Duncan - 7.7
Billups - 6.3

2004 NBAFINALS
Shaq - 11.0
Billups 8.4

2003 NBAFINALS
Duncan - 9.0
Kidd/Jefferson/Martin - 4.0

2002 NBAFINALS
Shaq - 14.5
Martin - 6.5

2001 NBAFINALS
Shaq - 15.2
Iverson - 9.6

2000 NBAFINALS
Shaq - 15.5
Miller - 6.7

1999 NBAFINALS
Robinson - 9.6
Duncan - 9.0

1998 NBAFINALS
Jordan - 11.6
Malone - 8.0

Now what can we deduct from all this? You'd have to go back to 1998 to find the last guard to ever averaged double-digit FTA in Michael Jordan in the FINALS. Even still, Wade has about 5 more FTA than Jordan which nearly equates to 2 or 3 more Fouls given. The only one remotely close in FTA to Wade is Shaq in his Prime years. It's obvious why Shaq got that many freethrows, he was a complete monster in the Post and teams often employed the Hack-a-Shaq to slow him down. In Game 2 of the 2000 NBA FINALS, Shaq got 39 FTA in which he only made 18.

And yet Wade still averaged more FTA per game.

The argument Wade proponents have is that he is being "aggressive" and is the most aggressive player in the Finals. Umm no. Wade isn't anymore aggressive than Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Iverson or any other superstar that has ever played in the FINALS. It's ridiculous that Wade got more FTA than post players like Shaq, Duncan or Robinson. It's also ludicrous for a guard to EVER get 16.2 FTA while averaging 36.5 ppg. Shows you where a chunk of the points came from.

In case you missed all that: It's all about the freethrows. Wade isn't all that great of a basketball player (although he is certainly good), but when the refs will call a foul on the opposing player if he merely BREATH's in your direction there's a problem. Wade gets the kind of calls Jordan got in his prieme-MORE actually-and he's a 4th year guard.

Wade isn't a superstar player, he's a MANUFACTURED superstar courtesy of the refs. Put me on the line 11 times a game and I'd be an NBA star as well. Wades ppg to FTA per game ratio is one of if not THE most lopsided in NBA history, and that isn't even taking into account all of the non-shooting/blocking fouls he gets per game. 1 in every of 5 his shot attempts see's the refs putting him on the line.

Maybe there's a logical explanation for this, but regardless of what that is more attention needs to be brought to this issue, if only to rectify the problem and assure that the integrity of the game isn't being compromised in an effort to create the "next Jordan."

Nothing on here that Mav fans didn't already know or read (for the most part) but it's still no excuse for the Mavs losing to the Heat in the finals. Although Wade is not helping his cause by some of his recent comments, it's a shame that he's becoming the most hated NBA player because of getting calls he shouldn't be getting. The negative Wade press/feelings from around the country is really snowballing on him now. It's not his fault...it's the ref's adn/or league's fault. He's just playing the game.

[daspurs]

Nothing on here that Mav fans didn't already know or read (for the most part) but it's still no excuse for the Mavs losing to the Heat in the finals. Although Wade is not helping his cause by some of his recent comments, it's a shame that he's becoming the most hated NBA player because of getting calls he shouldn't be getting. The negative Wade press/feelings from around the country is really snowballing on him now. It's not his fault...it's the ref's adn/or league's fault. He's just playing the game.

true everyone hates wade cause of the calls he gets it not his fault he gets those calls but i seriously see a big comparison with wade and jordan

[dallaskd]

anyone read cubans blog lately?

read his dwyane wade a leader post.(spells wades last name on purpose)

http://blogmaverick.com/

didnt no if yall had seen this one yet.

[dallaskd]

Great leadership DWade. Your coach sat players for being fat. I guess you couldnt lead them away from the buffet.

lmfao. hAHAHA

[Leetonidas]

Now we know why Charles won't put you in his 5.

Mark Cuban is a jerk off, but that was funny.

[dallaskd]

I hope Dwayne Wade was misquoted in an article today in the Miami Herald. I know the Herald has issues with accuracy and they are still probably looking for the boat I dont own in Miami, but according to the Herald, and i have a hard time thinking even the Herald could get this quote wrong, Wade said the following:

DIG AT DIRK

After the Heat practiced Thursday at Quicken Loans Arena, Wade was asked if he believes players are ultimately remembered for what they do at the end of games.

Wade, who usually is selective and subtle with his criticisms of opposing players, took the opportunity to take a jab at Dallas' Dirk Nowitzki, who has failed to give the Heat credit for beating the Mavericks in the Finals last season.

''At the end of the day,'' Wade said, ``you're remembered for what you did at the end. . . . I think that's the reason -- Dirk says they gave us the championship last year, but he's the reason they lost the championship, because he wasn't the leader that he's supposed to be in the closing moments. That's because of great defense by us, but also he wasn't assertive enough as a leader's supposed to be.''

Say what ? Is this the DWade of some of the lamest , boring commercials known to man ? Commercials that are singlehandedly responsible for selling more commercial skipping Tivos than anything else on TV ?
Dwayne I don't blame you for not looking at tapes of the finals. You obviously didn't. You would have seen your unbelievable skills and some other unbelievable elements that if I could discuss honestly here I would get fined for.


You are right, endings are remembered. And the ending of 3 of the games of the Finals will be remembered alongside Game 6 of the King vs Lakers Conf Finals a few years ago.

I guess you have earned the right to criticize Dirk with an obvious display of your own leadership skills.

I know Shaq appreciates your leadership as well. He called out your team a few weeks ago saying it was "embarassing'. Great leadership DWade. Your coach sat players for being fat. I guess you couldnt lead them away from the buffet.

You are an amazing player Dwayne. I love watching you shoot free throws. What you know about Dirk's leadership skills is non existent. You don't have a clue. Your ability to evaluate leadership skills....well you obviously have an overinflated value of your own. Did you take business classes at Marquette ?

Now we know why Charles won't put you in his 5.

And Im pissed for one more reason. Im going to have to miss our next game against the Heat on Feb 22. A previous engagement. I guess its just a missed opportunity to bring a local business class to the game and try to let them interview you about your leadership skills.

-Mark Cuban

[ponky]

Good enough.

Just glad to figure out why a Celtic fan would defend a team from Texas. I'd never seen such a thing.

Haha, my brother's a Pistons fan for the same reason. Back in the day, before league pass, that's what he could watch on TV and he's stayed loyal ever since...another reason he kind of follows the Lakers too although not quite so much, all that Showtime stuff was the only thing he could watch on t TV.

[Islymore]

JESUS!!!!

I am a Mavs fan... I love my team...

But everybody please GROW UP!!!! Geez.. if its not a fan of some RANDOM team talkin useless bull about how the playoffs last year were totally biased towards the Mavs, its a HEAT fan spewin bull about how the HEAT won it fair and square or a SPUR fan talkin bout the rings, banners, 3-0 ... Everybody is right.

Did the MAVS choke?
Yes... Most real MAVFANS acknowledge that.
Did DIRK show the leadership expected of him?
No... He got drunk and partied too hard... He simply didnt show up when he was needed. Blame it on what you will - but as the given LEADER of the MAVs - he was no where to be found really games 3-6, be fareal
Does Mark Cuban need to just shut up sometimes?
yes. He talks too much to be an owner. You never see any other owners or hear from any other owners as much as Cuban. At some point, he needs to take the time to see if maybe his actions 'cause unjust criticism of his team. He can be over the line. But the Mavs org wouldnt be what it is without him. The players love him, he is adored by many. But as an owner, sometimes he need to just take a backseat and be quiet.
Was there really a conspiracy theory?
If you are really caught up in the hype of conspiracy theories and Stern hates the Mavs or Stern wanted a Mav/Heat Finals for marketing... Come on. Every team made a stupid mistake. Every team did something. The Spurs - yeah Manu made a stupid mistake by fouling Dirk. We get it. But its done now and can't be taken back. So we move on. We ed up in the Finals. We get it. Its rare the Mavs even talk about the Finals bc unlike the Heat - they have moved on. Focused on this season. Maybe the Heat should do the same.
Did DWade get a lot of foul calls?
Yes - and so what? The calls he got some were justified, some were not. If you want to pretend that the foul advantage/disadvantage is what caused the Mavs the Championship - then you are really dillusional. (is that spelled right?)

I don't know why D-Wade felt the need to bring that up but I do know it showed a lack of class just as Mark Cuban's response did. I really don't care. I hope it serves as motivation for not only Dirk but the whole team. Maybe D-Wade did it to hype his team up for the upcoming game. Who knows? It was good timing if it was to serve as that purpose. Was it called for? Totally not. But so what? MOVE ON.

This thread went from being about D-Wade's comments to being about the Mavs chokin in the Finals... and while they may be linked... WE ALL GET THAT NOW. MOST MAV FANS THAT ARE REAL FANS - HAS ACCEPTED THAT AND MOVED ON... Catch on ppl.

Please - at some point - don't you all get tired of reading the same crap posted in eighteen different threads by the same ten ppl about the same bull ?

Sorry so long ppl. Just had to rant.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Wade should be careful what he says. He got baited.

[Louae]

Like someone said before. Only the biggest heat homer would say the refs didn't decide this series. It was a bad call to start with and it ended being a good call as Harris did eventually grab Wade's arm. Games 1 and 2 were tilted slightly for the mavs but than once they went to Miami all the calls went to Miami. You would think that once Dallas went back to Dallas they would get the calls again. Nope because Dan Crawford was the ref and the heat continued to get the calls. In final the refs gave Miami the series. I have never seen such biased refs in my life.

Then you must have missed the second round of the playoffs against the spurs. B/c honestly, there was nothing more sweet than seeing the Mavs go down at the hands of the refs. God knows, they never would've been there without their help in the first place. Karma is a .

[dirk4mvp]

Then you must have missed the second round of the playoffs against the spurs. B/c honestly, there was nothing more sweet than seeing the Mavs go down at the hands of the refs. God knows, they never would've been there without their help in the first place. Karma is a .

Bad calls didn't go both ways in the 2nd round did it?

[nkdlunch]

who cares? they're both crybabies.

[Fillmoe]

JESUS!!!!

I am a Mavs fan... I love my team...

But everybody please GROW UP!!!! Geez.. if its not a fan of some RANDOM team talkin useless bull about how the playoffs last year were totally biased towards the Mavs, its a HEAT fan spewin bull about how the HEAT won it fair and square or a SPUR fan talkin bout the rings, banners, 3-0 ... Everybody is right.

Did the MAVS choke?
Yes... Most real MAVFANS acknowledge that.
Did DIRK show the leadership expected of him?
No... He got drunk and partied too hard... He simply didnt show up when he was needed. Blame it on what you will - but as the given LEADER of the MAVs - he was no where to be found really games 3-6, be fareal
Does Mark Cuban need to just shut up sometimes?
yes. He talks too much to be an owner. You never see any other owners or hear from any other owners as much as Cuban. At some point, he needs to take the time to see if maybe his actions 'cause unjust criticism of his team. He can be over the line. But the Mavs org wouldnt be what it is without him. The players love him, he is adored by many. But as an owner, sometimes he need to just take a backseat and be quiet.
Was there really a conspiracy theory?
If you are really caught up in the hype of conspiracy theories and Stern hates the Mavs or Stern wanted a Mav/Heat Finals for marketing... Come on. Every team made a stupid mistake. Every team did something. The Spurs - yeah Manu made a stupid mistake by fouling Dirk. We get it. But its done now and can't be taken back. So we move on. We ed up in the Finals. We get it. Its rare the Mavs even talk about the Finals bc unlike the Heat - they have moved on. Focused on this season. Maybe the Heat should do the same.
Did DWade get a lot of foul calls?
Yes - and so what? The calls he got some were justified, some were not. If you want to pretend that the foul advantage/disadvantage is what caused the Mavs the Championship - then you are really dillusional. (is that spelled right?)

I don't know why D-Wade felt the need to bring that up but I do know it showed a lack of class just as Mark Cuban's response did. I really don't care. I hope it serves as motivation for not only Dirk but the whole team. Maybe D-Wade did it to hype his team up for the upcoming game. Who knows? It was good timing if it was to serve as that purpose. Was it called for? Totally not. But so what? MOVE ON.

This thread went from being about D-Wade's comments to being about the Mavs chokin in the Finals... and while they may be linked... WE ALL GET THAT NOW. MOST MAV FANS THAT ARE REAL FANS - HAS ACCEPTED THAT AND MOVED ON... Catch on ppl.

Please - at some point - don't you all get tired of reading the same crap posted in eighteen different threads by the same ten ppl about the same bull ?

Sorry so long ppl. Just had to rant.

greatest mavs fan ever....... why cant the rest of you mavs fans be like this?