Official Hurricane Katrina Thread

[timvp]

False.

What kind of response is that? False?

Oh and the San Antonio smack is amazing. Because I happen to live in a town with crooked cops and politicians, that makes a difference? As a matter of fact, I've always lived outside the city limits.

So smoke that.

[CharlieMac]

I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but obviously not everyone is going to come out smelling like a rose. As a matter of fact, I think in this instance that rose 'done died.

There will be an investigation just like with 9/11 I'd imagine, with all protocol and legalities examined...but it's really hard to argue with a flat-out admission.

I've been making smart ass comments about it for a few days, and even made one a few seconds ago in the politics forum.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_r...p-293306c.html

Someone is thinking about her career.

What a waste of time and money. Again. Much like with the 9/11 Commission the left is playing politics with a tragedy and Bush is catching an ass pounding from politicians "looking out for the little guys". They're so good to us.

Is it with good intentions? Common sense could come into play here as well. The media wins though. Big time.

I used to think that Clinton was the ing man for being able to withstand witchhunt after witchhunt, and it would never get any worse than what the right did to him in the 90's. I never imagined it would one day be this popular and beneficial to so many people to constantly have blinders on and only go after one man.

[whottt]

For those interested...here is the City of New Orleans evacuation plan...I am genuinely happy they had one...they weren't quite as inept as I thought...except when it came to implementing it.

http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModule...al=46&tabid=26


When Nagin declared a state of emergency he was totally in charge of New Orleans. That is the purpose of the declaration....

This guy ya'll think is a great leader in the past few days has gone on Radio cussing out everyone...crying...

And now he's going around claiming the CIA is going to assasinate him...

And ya'll think this ing flake is a leader?


The Govenor is more accountable...but she got her state of emergency declaration approved...Bush sent her everything she asked for and mobilized a federal response...all those people getting rescued in day 1 and day 1 was FEMA...the State of Lousiana was busy doing nothing at the Superdome. She refused to cede authority even after Bush had given her disaster relief aid, before the storm even hit...

Even after he was imporing them to make the evacauation mandatory...something only they could do(Giving the mayor authority).

How well do you think they succeeded in implementing it?


As for the Federal response...it was ty...

I gueess it's fair to say they had no plan...I think they had a plan it just didn't account for a second flood and the total and absolute collapse of the city and state emergency response.

Can ya'll tell me one freaking thing that Lousiana has done in this?

...we are sheltering more of their people than they are...they got a thousand ing busses sunk in New Orleans.

Don't ya think those might have helped speed up the evacuation processes just a little bit? 1000 or so busses? Would have been so hard to move them to the Superdome...or at least some high ground? Is having them move some portapotties and working generators to the Superdome too much to ing ask of them?

Those things would have helped....and that way the fed could have focused on saving those that needed it...instead they were having to save the State and City's disaster workers.

The Fed did not expect to have to do this all on their own....if you want to lay a fault on them...then that is it.

As for how well they did...

Seeing as how this is th worst disaster in US history...and something no administration has ever had to do...There is nothing else to judge it against...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Come on, does anyone think that anyone is going to step up and accept responsibility?

There is going to be lawsuits up the ass out of this, you know Jesse J. and the NAACP are already aiming for Bush and his administration.

You won't see anyone admitting they ed up. It will come out after the fact via Freedom of Information Act, etc.

You want to know what I think though? Everyone in the federal government, particularly FEMA, is responsible. Everyone in Congress on both sides of the aisle is responsible, they never felt the need to deal with this in DC (yes even "we need to have a commission" Hillary Rodham).

Bush deserves some blame, he put Brown in charge of FEMA, and whoever had the bright idea to consolidate FEMA under DHS also deserves a good quick boot up the ass.

The government of La. and the city of New Orleans also lie at serious fault. The stupid ass governor still hasn't declared martial law, even when Nagin begged for it last Wednesday. She wouldn't sign off on joint command of the National Guard, which basically meant she was in charge of all those NG troops that people blamed the feds for "standing around, taking too long to get there, etc."

And last but not least we have Nagin. It took the head of FEMA and the President of the United ing States BEGGING with the guy to get him to issue a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans, which at that point was great to see but in all practicality was way too late just 20 hours from land fall.

Then after the storm he blames everyone but himself, expects the feds to pick up the ball him and his governor dropped, and in the meantime he relocates to Baton Rouge and then cries about his police force saying it and going home.

So yeah, a lot of people share blame. I guess you can call me a partisan defender of the Bush administration though, as long as everyone is going to absolve Nagin, Blanco, etc. of blame and hang it all on W., I'll defend him.

When I see more people recognizing the fact that it's not all Bush's fault, then we can talk.

[/soap box]

[timvp]

As for the Federal response...it was ty...

I gueess it's fair to say they had no plan...

Whottt seeing the light.

Congrats.

Louisiana shouldn't have been expected to do much. They have one of the world's biggest ports, billions of dollars running through it everyday ... yet they are one of the poorer states in the country. Obviously, something has been messed up there for a long time.

To expect New Orleans or Louisiana to do something other than quiver in their boots was foolish. Neither the city nor the state have any history of taking action.

[Kori Ellis]

When I see more people recognizing the fact that it's not all Bush's fault, then we can talk.

Name anyone in this thread who has said it's all Bush's fault.

[Das Texan]

i've been out of this since somewhere around page 100 so forgive me if i repeat anything....


its really hilarious at this stupid blame game being played here. The blame lies on all sides for the failure in everything that has taken place. I think timvp said it best, everyone in the private sector knew what would happen, yet those on the governmental level had no clue. ing bull . Its just that instead of actually working to ensure that when this did happen, and the local idiots always ackowledged it would happen, just not on their watch, they focused on whatever other crap they focused on.

So they failed in that account.

The federal government failed in the way they reacted and mobilized, of course the state has to request the federal help first, which from what I understand was a tad late in happening. It's Bush's fault in that he structured the Dept Of Homeland security to focus basically on terrorism and ignoring everything else, even though he gave them all the responsiblity of doing this stuff, in effect making FEMA about as useless as he has made the EPA. Yet all the blame has been basically placed on FEMA and not where the blame should be most likely. Good job.


Here is one, why were there national guard troops in Mississippi ready for the after storm crap and this wasnt happening in Louisiana? Oh ya, cause for as much that we throw at Mississippi, at least they arent ing clueless when it comes to hurricanes and the dangers of living on the gulf coast.

[Das Texan]

Whottt seeing the light.

To expect New Orleans or Louisiana to do something other than quiver in their boots was foolish. Neither the city nor the state have any history of taking action.

what do you expect? They do have French roots.

[timvp]

Pretty solid post, AHF.

When I see more people recognizing the fact that it's not all Bush's fault, then we can talk.

Honestly, I don't think it was much his fault. It turns out that some of these peeps he appointed have been horrible, but it's not like we heard much opposition when they were hired. It took him a while to figure out how bad it was and his response was damn slow, but so was everyone else involved.

No doubt, though, that this will be a blemish on his presidency. For anyone to deny that would be foolish.

And honestly, that really surprises me because Bush always came across as the perfect 'crisis' president. He was amazing dealing with 9/11. I think he's made the American people trust him about this current war ... even if not everyone agrees.

Bush thrives in disaster situations.

But he, along with thousands of others, dropped the ball in New Orleans.

Agreed?

[Dos]

another commission.. please it's just going to come to same conclusion we all know that everyone on every level failed... so save about 500 million dollars and use it rebuild NO...

[whottt]

Whottt seeing the light.

Congrats.

I never denied their responsibility...but I'll tell you right now...the biggest failure in all of this was the city and state governments.

L

ouisiana shouldn't have been expected to do much. They have one of the world's biggest ports, billions of dollars running through it everyday ... yet they are one of the poorer states in the country. Obviously, something has been messed up there for a long time.

Which kinda kicks the ole Bush doesn't care about poor ole NO myth in the ass doesn't it?

You think Big Oil wanted to see the port of New Orleans go out of commission?

To expect New Orleans or Louisiana to do something other than quiver in their boots was foolish. Neither the city nor the state have any history of taking action.

Well then we need rewrite the cons ution and remove their power...

Because they had more power over the decisions made in this relief aid than the Federal Government. They controlled nearly all of the instate resources...

Federal being the key word there....Within NO the Mayor had more decision making power than the President of the United States...within the state of Louisiana the Govenor has more power.



Bush asked the Govenor to work in partnership with the Federal Government after the State of Emergency was approved and he granted every one of her requests...she refused to do that...she refused to cede authority...thus she had control of all of the state disaster resources...and they didn't do .

Honore is the FED..you know what he said if he'd been sent in there on day 1?

He said he'd have been a victim and needed to be rescued just like every one else. .

[CharlieMac]

Pretty solid post, AHF.



Honestly, I don't think it was much his fault. It turns out that some of these peeps he appointed have been horrible, but it's not like we heard much opposition when they were hired. It took him a while to figure out how bad it was and his response was damn slow, but so was everyone else involved.

No doubt, though, that this will be a blemish on his presidency. For anyone to deny that would be foolish.

And honestly, that really surprises me because Bush always came across as the perfect 'crisis' president. He was amazing dealing with 9/11. I think he's made the American people trust him about this current war ... even if not everyone agrees.

Bush thrives in disaster situations.

But he, along with thousands of others, dropped the ball in New Orleans.

Agreed?

Absolutely.

[whottt]

You guys keep pointing out how everyone knew this was going to happen except the Admin...evidentally no one in New Orleans did either...

Again...I cannot point out how badly the city and state officials ed up on this...

Case in point...

The justification of the Police Force going AWOL...because many of them lost their families or didn't know where they were...

That means the freaking police force didn't even obey the mandatory evacuation with their families...these guys can't even save their own freaking families...

Do they get to use the "poor/no transportation/didn't understand the situation" card as well?

Common Sense indeed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think he dropped the ball in not stepping in earlier.

But as we saw courtesy the Washington Post, he's tried to be much more involved from a federal standpoint but the ass La. Governor won't let him, and word is she was concerned politically.

So for all the "politics" being blamed on Bush, his administration is effectively being blocked by this in the back office, while she comes out and tells the press that the government isn't helping her or Nagin out.

Total bull .

[timvp]

Whottt, maybe if you keep repeating "city and state", "city and state", "city and state" you'll begin to believe what you're saying.

Good luck.

[timvp]

I think he dropped the ball in not stepping in earlier.

Thank you. Now if I can get Nbadan to admit that it wasn't all Bush's fault and he shouldn't get impeached, the country will be just a tad bet better.

[whottt]

Whottt, maybe if you keep repeating "city and state", "city and state", "city and state" you'll begin to believe what you're saying.

Good luck.

Yeah...I just thank god for the all the help the Federal Government is giving us here in Texas...sheltering those 250,000 Louisianians...God knows State Govts can't do without the Fed.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah...I just thank god for the all the help the Federal Government is giving us here in Texas...sheltering those 250,000 Louisianians...God knows State Govts can't do without the Fed.

Actually dumbass, they just declared Texas in a state of medical emergency to allow for the federal aid that is going to facilitate what we are doing.

Diaseter reaction and relief on this scale falls mainly on the shoulders of the feds.

Want to tell me what FEMA stands for?

[boutons]

"I think he's made the American people trust him about this current war"

Then why does every recent poll show his popularity declining to historic lows, driven down primarily by his bull , bogus Iraq war. They will be driven even lower by Katrina and NO. He stole the 2000 election, and then claimed a "mandate", and then against a weak opponent in 2004, he snuck buy with win with a historically minuscule margin for an in bent president. shrub's presidency is bent over and ed.

"crisis president"? no, his utterances and demeanor before and during his first NO visit were stupid and tone-deaf. So now he's hustling back down for a 2nd visit to try to fix that. The guy is political and intellectual cretin who can't speak English, the anti-communicator.

His "leadership", as shown by the dumb s he put in charge of FEMA which he also had HIS Homeland security gut, is totally useless and counter-productive. He's truly an anti-leader

True responsibility at FEMA, HIS FEMA, would have known that a small, poor city like NO, and small, poor, badly managed, historically corrupt state like LA would be overwhelmed by any direct hit. FEMA wasn't ready, shrub and Repugs weren't ready.

shrub's OMB has essentially abandoned levee maintenance by underfunding it, over the objections of local, state, ACoE. The underfunding is part of the Repug's strategy of "starving the beast". Now people see what starving the beast means, which includes not investing in new/maintenance infrastructure (while makes enormous cuts in taxes and tax amnesties for richest 2% and for corps, in human terms.

Had the levees held, 90% of this embarrassing, ridiculous, NO fiasco and 1000s of deaths would simply have not occurred. Katrina would have been no worse or different than 4 major hurricanes pounding FL + AL only 12 months ago, or Andrew over a decade ago.

What kind of "leadership" causes the unnecessary deaths and injuries to 10's of 1000s it own citizens in bogus foreign wars and man-made catastrophes?

[whottt]

So Chertoff was honest? They actually had no idea that the damage was going to be anything like this? Homeland Security had no idea, but everyone in the media and in this forum did.

Please.

They didn't expect a second flood after the Hurricane...did you?

They didn't expect to have to do the job of the City and State Relief Forces....this after the City and State Relief Forces failed...while still having to do everything through the govenor.

She didn't call for all those additional troops until 3 or 4 days after the flood...


I think he is being honest...I think generally think the Fed is admitting fault here to an extent...

Is anyone else?

No...and evidentally that's all it takes to escape blame from the posters on this forum..because the biggest culprits in this disaster are getting a free ride.

Yes, you definitely are on this one. Not necessarily because of your point of views but because of irrational way of expressing yourself. Sometimes on this forum you go into Whottt-Manic mode. And you go on a relentless tirade of ramblings. I know your intentions may be good, but there's no difference between you and NBADan in your posting rants on occasion.

I am not going to dignify that comment with a response.

[Shelly]

Jesus, I don't know how NBADan and Boutons sleep at night with their 'shrub' hatred.

[MannyIsGod]

[MannyIsGod]

Jesus, I don't know how NBADan and Boutons sleep at night with their 'shrub' hatred.

They really do make me seem like a fan of the current administration, and I'm really not. Its nuts!

[boutons]

"didn't expect a second flood after the Hurricane"

WTF? The failure of the levees and flooding of NO in a major hurricane have been on the emergency services' radars for many years.

This "who coulda known about the levees" defense of shrub/FEMA is totally dishonest.

[Clandestino]

fact is, everyone dropped the ball... ESPECIALLY NEW ORLEANS... if the federal government isn't helping you after 10 years, you should start fixing yourself.... they would have a stable levee system by now i'm sure...