Lonnie has had two great streches this year and this one he's on now is the best of his career ever. Its honestly one of the best scoring stretches for any Spur not part of the big 3 or Kawhi. 20ppg scorers haven't exactly been easy for the Spurs to find outside of their stars.
All of those guys showed a lot more in their first 4 years than Lonnie has. Wanting to pay for as yet unrealized potential after 4 seasons is how you clog your cap with low trade value contracts.
The amount of posters here still enamored of counting stats is astounding. After nearly 4 full seasons, his advanced stats are absolute .
Payne was arguably the worst guard in the NBA during his rookie deal. I actually agree using him as a floor doesn't make sense, but none of those guys got big offers. Richardson got a bargain contract four years ago. I don't think Walker compares with them as much as he does like guys like Culver, Bamba, Collins and other talented busts.
Oh, if Luka was a weak-minded kiss up….
Yes, and what if your advanced stats are only starting to accelerate right when you want to dump him? Have a little patience to see how he finishes out this year. Only a simpleton would bark, "almost 4 full seasons, his advanced stats are " then fail to take into account the potential hockey stick redirection at the tail end of the 4th season.
I guess it’s another 20+ pts for Lonnie tonight
Glad to see Lonnie turning it around. Hope we keep seeing the aggro version of him which is actually a good player
Lonnie mitc is a bad man
Yesss, yes! New recruits getting off the ship and aboard Lonnie Island! It was getting pretty lonely with just the, what, three of us here? All welcome...
I’m still not convinced……plays no defense and low bbiq
His best game ever as a Spur tonight. Good Skywalker.
He's still a kid. So is Vassell, so is Keldon, so is tre. These guys are kids learning. It always amazes me how people write these kids off like they've peaked when they're all young and very limited experience. Players play into their 30s regularly and peak late 20s early 30s now. These guys all have room to grow.
Tony took time and got to develop with hall of famers running things. Manu was already mid twenties and an olympic hero, and Tim was the greatest of all time, and kawhi was nearly the second coming of Jordan on offense and pippin on defense. He's arguably one of the best players ever as well already.
The bar seriously is way out of reality when people judge these young guys. They're not close to being fully developed. Spurs got super lucky a handful of times. Half the board wrote off Murray before this season, saying he had peaked as well.
I'm glad to see these kids growing. They're exciting and fun to watch. Rooting for them all.
Especially a good kid like Lonnie who has opened up so much about abuse and mental issues.
Last edited by Mnky; 03-04-2022 at 12:04 AM.
There is no way to conclude anything now, it could be a turn of corner or a contract year Lonnie. We can just keep watching how it turns out. It us okay if his offense improve but D stagnant. No doubt we need a superstar and all stars but we are so bad now that we need all kind of players who can at least do 1 thing very good and the rest around the average.
Whatever that means? He’s been trying to make that turn. I doubt he slows down after this season. Can he continue consistently? Now that’s the question. Previously I think Pop tried to reel him in because he was out of sync. But he’s playing in rythmn now and not seems to be forcing the issue. And I think Pop would just let him loose out there going forward.
Last edited by John B; 03-04-2022 at 12:48 AM.
There were players that played better every time they are about to hit free agency and then after new contracts their performance drop. Thus the phase contract year player.
I think Pop is trying to evaluate all these young players by giving them some more minutes. It can be a career saver for some players who need that confidence that they aren't going to get pulled if they make one bad play. Lonnie has some great physical skills to use if he can control his play, taking the game that comes to him and being more aware of his defensive responsibilities.
did Lonnie fear being traded before the deadline? since it has passed he is really tearing it up ... great stuff
This is unsustainable, Lonnie is not even looking at other players anymore. Probably the best way for him to score, but can you really build around that on that second unit? Pop is maybe trying to see with the last few games if it is possible , just trying to feed Lonnie a ton and taking the leash off hoping something breaks in a good way.
Lonnie isn't the PG. It's not his job to get others involved. If he can find a better mix of scoring and passing, he should pick up more assists (he should have had three last night -- they didn't count one of his passes for some reason). But he's not like Mills was where he has to even be the nominal PG while letting a passing wing run the offense. It's not sustainable to expect him to shoot lights out every game, but he's shots 53 percent from the floor and 40 percent from three over this stretch. That is sustainable if he continues to grow. His actual attempts aren't unsustainable either. Murray averages more shots per game for the whole season than Lonnie has averaged over this stretch. DeJounte can do it while still leaving room for guys like Johnson and Poeltl to get a lot of touches. Lonnie can do, especially if his shooting has recovered.
Now overall, is it sustainable for Pop to play Walker in this way if his wants to give developmental touches to other guards? That'd be harder, but the same is also true for Murray. If these touches are what's made Murray and All-Star and what's unlocked Lonnie's consistency, then they've well-spent. For all we know, Walker might end up being a 20ppg scorer himself next year. The Spurs shouldn't get into the habit of needing second contracts to bring out potential, but they can still afford it one or two more times.
That was Manus role. Take the game over. When the starters were out. That's who they have mentoring him. That's the role they tried to give to Patty. All teams need a guy on the bench who just wants to attack. Lonnie isn't there, but he's on the path. Spurs biggest weakness is what lonnie does well.
Of course it’s sustainable. Lonnie is a SG and does not need to facilitate. All he needs is to find his shots, and pass if others collapse on him. But his primary role is defense and shoot the ball. Tre as the primary ballhandler in the 2nd unit needs to find him.
Defense? His defense is dog . Pop had to sit our best shooter, Keldon, to bring in KBD,because Lonnie was getting butt ed by Harrison Barnes in the first half. he gave back every point he scored.
Every year he’s been in the NBA, he’s had a negative double digit net rating. Every year. you cannot spin that or sweep it under the carpet. His career mark is -14.
I'd be more convinced if during this current run Lonnie's advanced stats improved in some way, but they haven't at all. He's still a hugely net negative player. In the month of February (10 games), his ORtg/DRtg was 103/122-- upside down to the extreme-- and that's during a personal best run. His career ORtg/DRtg is 101/115, which is pretty bad-- so during his recent breakout, his impact on the floor actually got worse rather than better. And keep in mind, the Spurs famously have a decent point differential for a losing team this year, so Lonnie's advanced stats should reflect that at least a little bit. I wish the guy well and think he could be the 8th/9th guy on a good team, but dreams of Walker becoming the next Manu or even the next Brent Barry look pretty unreasonable.
Pg or not , every player has to be able to find the open man! Lonnie is a black hole these days that won’t try defensively. Pop is pretty much done with this dude it appears, he rarely talks to him anymore about his play. If he tried on defense who knows how good he could become.
Solid rebuttal.
There are so many intangibles that go into that +/- especially over such a tight window that I'm not sure it's a fair measurement for him.
That said hid defense was abysmal for most of his NBA career. I've torched Lonnie about his D from his first game. I remember doing so in the thread for Nephew's first game back. As awesome a game as that was for Spurs fans, I raked him over the coals for his complete inattention to his man and said it was going to be his biggest hindrance to a career with the Spurs.
Now in all fairness to him, his rotations have gotten much, much better this year. He doesn't look lost anymore, always after slow, which is the first step to being a better defender. I expect further improvement there for him which I'd necessary. He's also not getting beat on the first step which is allowing him to redirect his opponent into the defensive help with more consistency.
The big issue for me is can he be an offensive force consistently. Early returns the last several games say yes. Let's give him the remaining games and then reassess. Ignoring the current productivity only to look at the past would be poor player scouting and could cost the Spurs an impact player if we only went on his first few seasons.
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