Windhorst: Wembanyama Not Thrilled With Where Spurs Are; Doesn't Think Spurs Can Get Away With Slow Build

[TD 21]

I mentioned White awhile ago. Apparently the Bulls deem him as "untouchable", which is code for unless someone loses their mind and drastically overpays.

I've been over this ad nauseam, but the only non half measures are Young and maybe Mitc (status/interest in being here less clear). Murray is the best of the half measures, but obviously it's likely the Hawks only trade one of their lead guards.

[boutons_deux]

If the VW Spurs don't progress into a winner, to top, or near, of West Conf, in the next couple years,

VW will be tempted by supermax contracts from promising teams in big markets

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If the VW Spurs don't progress into a winner, to top, or near, of West Conf, in the next couple years,

VW will be tempted by supermax contracts from promising teams in big markets

It takes him 7 years with us to get supermax. I can wait.

[baseline bum]

You would have to surround him with defenders like the Warriors and Curry and we would have to figure out Vassell but Wemby is a great start and Sochan has a shot to be one of those defenders. We have such a long ing way to go but Young would be about as good of a start as we could get.

Either way it will be cheaper to buy from the Hawks than anyone else because our picks are worth more to them. Their mediocre 10t picks or worse to everyone else including ourselves.

This trade almost has to happen.

So disappointing seeing how much Devin has fallen off defensively this year. He was one of the few bright spots of the early season but he's become Keldon level now.

[MannyIsGod]

Off the top of my head, players drafted in the past few years that are or project to be as good or better than Young: Wemby, Chet, Banchero, Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Cade, Edwards, Barnes, Wagner, J-Williams, Sengun. And I got tired of thinking.

Now, most of you might think many of these guys are not as good as Young but to me they are. A guy like Franz Wagner might not be seen as an all-star but I would rather have him over Young if I'm trying to build a championship level team. Young is kinda like Westbrook to me, a guy that will put up numbers but that needs a lot of things to be accomodated around him to try and build a contender with him on the team. Just too flawed of a player.

Hard disagree all of those players will be better than Young. You're seriously underselling what Young provides. Saying you'd ratehr have Franz Wagenr over young is just wow.

[boutons_deux]

It takes him 7 years with us to get supermax. I can wait.

He'll leave for less than supermax.

[mo7888]

Hard disagree all of those players will be better than Young. You're seriously underselling what Young provides. Saying you'd ratehr have Franz Wagenr over young is just wow.

You should take Franz over Trae 10 times out of 10 if you value winning..

[baseline bum]

You should take Franz over Trae 10 times out of 10 if you value winning..

Why? You think he's going to get Victor easier shots than Trae would? He can't shoot the three so I'd be more worried about him getting in Victor's way offensively than I would Trae.

[mo7888]

Why? You think he's going to get Victor easier shots than Trae would? He can't shoot the three so I'd be more worried about him getting in Victor's way offensively than I would Trae.

He impacts winning. Its why you could offer Orlando the same package we're throwing around here for Trae and Orlando would hang up the phone

Edited to add* He's 34% career from 3.... Trae is 35% career from 3..

[MannyIsGod]

Its really hard to have a rational discussion about Young when people who don't like him devalue him more than is appropriate. Young will likely never be a good defender, but he's ing amazing on offense. You can get away with a bad player on defense if you scheme for it - especially with Wemby behind him. I'm not saying we need to go out and use all of our assets to get him, but the truth is that we're not likely to draft someone as good as him. DAF86 listed all the players that he felt were as good as Young taht were recently drafted, but what he didn't list was all the lottery picks who were not. Even with the overinflated list above, the list of busts is way larger. It's HARD to draft players at that level.

[MannyIsGod]

You should take Franz over Trae 10 times out of 10 if you value winning..

Young has led a team to the ECF. Franz hasn't won a playoff game.

[mo7888]

Young has led a team to the ECF. Franz hasn't won a playoff game.

Sure, Franz team was bad and is now on the rise.... Trae's was mid, then had a great season, and now is in the downslide...

[MannyIsGod]

He impacts winning. Its why you could offer Orlando the same package we're throwing around here for Trae and Orlando would hang up the phone

Edited to add* He's 34% career from 3.... Trae is 35% career from 3..

So because Franz shoots ALMOST as well from 3 as Young he impacts winning more? Nevermind that this year he's shooting 31% on a much lower volume than Young. Now do the rest of the stats.

[baseline bum]

He impacts winning. Its why you could offer Orlando the same package we're throwing around here for Trae and Orlando would hang up the phone

Edited to add* He's 34% career from 3.... Trae is 35% career from 3..

Meh Trae led his team to the ECF at 22 without any teammate anywhere near as good as Banchero so I don't buy the winning argument for Wagner over Trae. And you're making it sound like the offer would be the same for Orlando that it would be for Atlanta. For Orlando it's two picks around #10 and a pick swap to probably around #10. For Atlanta it's the ability to get three top 5 picks, to control their draft and be able to properly start over with two very top heavy drafts coming. The Atlanta picks and the swap are worth way more to Atlanta than to any other team in the league since they become shots at #1, or dropping to #5 if the lottery balls play out badly.

[mo7888]

Its really hard to have a rational discussion about Young when people who don't like him devalue him more than is appropriate. Young will likely never be a good defender, but he's ing amazing on offense. You can get away with a bad player on defense if you scheme for it - especially with Wemby behind him. I'm not saying we need to go out and use all of our assets to get him, but the truth is that we're not likely to draft someone as good as him. DAF86 listed all the players that he felt were as good as Young taht were recently drafted, but what he didn't list was all the lottery picks who were not. Even with the overinflated list above, the list of busts is way larger. It's HARD to draft players at that level.

It is hard to draft players of Trae's level.... that's not in dispute.... , adding Trae to this team isn't in dispute (by me at least). It's just a matter of weighing it against other options and finding tne best path forward... 4 firsts... KJ and filler is simply a bad deal... we should be able to do better elsewhere...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He'll leave for less than supermax.

at which point he would be waiting 10 years for his prize we are supposed to worry about him wanting.

[MannyIsGod]

Sure, Franz team was bad and is now on the rise.... Trae's was mid, then had a great season, and now is in the downslide...

The downslide is still way better than Wagner! What are you talking about?

Young this year:

26.4 PPG
10.8 APG
.512 eFG
4.8 OBPM
-2.4 DBPM

Franz:

20.6 PPG
4.1 APG
5.6 RPG
.530 efg

1.5 OBPM
0.2 DBPM


Franz is not a bad player but he's not close to the impact that Young has.

EDIT - the last two years are the highest VORP of Young's career. Dude is far from getting worse right now. I get that people don't like him but Atlanta being mismanged is not his fault. They should never have done the DJM trade and they've been paying for it since but that's not on Young.

EDIT - Take it back a bit, this year Young's VORP is lower than previous years but still very high.

[mo7888]

Meh Trae led his team to the ECF at 22 without any teammate anywhere near as good as Banchero so I don't buy the winning argument for Wagner over Trae. And you're making it sound like the offer would be the same for Orlando that it would be for Atlanta. For Orlando it's two picks around #10 and a pick swap to probably around #10. For Atlanta it's the ability to get three top 5 picks, to control their draft and be able to properly start over with two very top heavy drafts coming. The Atlanta picks and the swap are worth way more to Atlanta than to any other team in the league since they become shots at #1, or dropping to #5 if the lottery balls play out badly.

So Trae's hawks being on the decline and The magic ascending doesn't factor into i guess? The Magic must have a much better FO i guess.

And that Atl team wasn't Trae and nobody

[MannyIsGod]

So Trae's hawks being on the decline and The magic ascending doesn't factor into i guess? The Magic must have a much better FO i guess.

And that Atl team wasn't Trae and nobody

Bro how is it Youngs fault that the Hawks have an incerdibly stupid front office? lol come on Mo!

[baseline bum]

It is hard to draft players of Trae's level.... that's not in dispute.... , adding Trae to this team isn't in dispute (by me at least). It's just a matter of weighing it against other options and finding tne best path forward... 4 firsts... KJ and filler is simply a bad deal... we should be able to do better elsewhere...

I want a bird in the hand who fits well next to Victor rather than wishing we get SGA, Haliburton, or Doncic with three swings at the plate. I don't see those picks getting us better than Trae in trade either.

[mo7888]

The downslide is still way better than Wagner! What are you talking about?

Young this year:

26.4 PPG
10.8 APG
.512 eFG
4.8 OBPM
-2.4 DBPM

Franz:

20.6 PPG
4.1 APG
5.6 RPG
.530 efg

1.5 OBPM
0.2 DBPM


Franz is not a bad player but he's not close to the impact that Young has.

So, Franz has numbers that aren't that far off Trae offensively and being in the league for fewer years and being a much better rebounder and defender makes the case for Trae?

Ok...

[baseline bum]

So Trae's hawks being on the decline and The magic ascending doesn't factor into i guess? The Magic must have a much better FO i guess.

And that Atl team wasn't Trae and nobody

It wasn't Trae and Banchero either.

[mo7888]

Bro how is it Youngs fault that the Hawks have an incerdibly stupid front office? lol come on Mo!

The point on the FO isn't that Atlanta has a good one.... its that the Magic don't have a good one either... they are comparable...

I'm not going to argue thst Atlanta has some kind of braintrust and Trae's pulling them down..

[MannyIsGod]

I'm legit not even advocating for the trade. I don't know the Spurs have to do it but I also don't think its an awful idea depending on the price. I think more importantly the Spurs need to fill out this team so that we have a full rotation of NBA contributors. We have too many players who play right now and are only playing because we hope they end up being rotation level players in the NBA. Of the players currently on the team, we don't even have a starting 5 of players who are for sure rotation players in the NBA.

[mo7888]

I want a bird in the hand who fits well next to Victor rather than wishing we get SGA, Haliburton, or Doncic with three swings at the plate. I don't see those picks getting us better than Trae in trade either.

That's a legitimate argument. I'd like a bird in the hand, too. It's a matter of price, though...(although i think you and I agree on that point)