2024 NBA Draft Thread

[The Truth #6]

But back to divisive draft thoughts. I'm still intrigued by Isiah Collier with the Toronto pick if we can't get Dillingham with our own pick.

Interesting breakdown on No Ceilings: https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/isai...-trojans-horse

To be clear, I'm not advocating for him in a vacuum. I'm trying to find any players with star potential in this lackluster draft that is much better for role players. We need a star player. We need a point guard. So I think it's silly to discount Collier completely. His shooting is the main problem in my opinion. Since return from his hand injury, his assist to turn over ratio is 1.64 it turns out, which is not apocalyptic. His poor free throw shooting is definitely a concern. But he's great in the open court, he's great at lob passes, he's s great at getting to the rim at will and finishing, and he actually has pretty good vision most of the time. So there's enough there to take a look.

[Pauleta14]

But back to divisive draft thoughts. I'm still intrigued by Isiah Collier with the Toronto pick if we can't get Dillingham with our own pick.

Interesting breakdown on No Ceilings: https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/isai...-trojans-horse

To be clear, I'm not advocating for him in a vacuum. I'm trying to find any players with star potential in this lackluster draft that is much better for role players. We need a star player. We need a point guard. So I think it's silly to discount Collier completely. His shooting is the main problem in my opinion. Since return from his hand injury, his assist to turn over ratio is 1.64 it turns out, which is not apocalyptic. His poor free throw shooting is definitely a concern. But he's great in the open court, he's great at lob passes, he's s great at getting to the rim at will and finishing, and he actually has pretty good vision most of the time. So there's enough there to take a look.

Been following the comments on Twitter (I know not the only/best ref) and it was mostly negative. A lot think he should stay a 2nd year but will probably get drafted bc of hype and potential

He’s very very raw and hard to project

There are no star potential on this draft, those are for the 25’

[exstatic]

But back to divisive draft thoughts. I'm still intrigued by Isiah Collier with the Toronto pick if we can't get Dillingham with our own pick.

Interesting breakdown on No Ceilings: https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/isai...-trojans-horse

To be clear, I'm not advocating for him in a vacuum. I'm trying to find any players with star potential in this lackluster draft that is much better for role players. We need a star player. We need a point guard. So I think it's silly to discount Collier completely. His shooting is the main problem in my opinion. Since return from his hand injury, his assist to turn over ratio is 1.64 it turns out, which is not apocalyptic. His poor free throw shooting is definitely a concern. But he's great in the open court, he's great at lob passes, he's s great at getting to the rim at will and finishing, and he actually has pretty good vision most of the time. So there's enough there to take a look.

If he were 6’6”, I’d be on board for the experiment , but if you want a star, he ain’t it. The path for 6’3” non shooting poor passing guards to s om is non existent. BTW, 1.64 asst/TO is ing awful for a supposed PG.

[Ariel]

If he were 6’6”, I’d be on board for the experiment , but if you want a star, he ain’t it. The path for 6’3” non shooting poor passing guards to s om is non existent. BTW, 1.64 asst/TO is ing awful for a supposed PG.

My main beef with Collier is that PGs take longer to develop, and he's probably even farther away than most, and handing him the keys so that he can experiment his rookie year could get ugly and hurt the rest of the team. In a different context he would be a more palatable option for me... perhaps if the Spurs add a more established vet along the lines of Brogdon, and trade back to pick up Knecht and Collier, then it wouldn't be so bad.

[LeBowen]

We got Collier at home and his name is Blake Wesley.

[rascal]

I had Cam #4 ahead of the Thompson twins...

I remember you as one of the few who liked Cam.

[The Truth #6]

I hear the concerns from everyone and don't necessarily disagree. So, then, who is your choice for a star in this draft?

[Ariel]

Höw about Devin Carter from Providence? bulky, 2-way 6'3" PG, has been having a very productive year, shooting over 47% from the field and almost 38% from 3 on high volume (6.7 3PA), excellent rebounding numbers for a guard, plays his ass off on defense, Hadn't really paid much attention to him early on, but he seems to be rising on mocks, anyone watched him regularly?

[Ariel]

I hear the concerns from everyone and don't necessarily disagree. So, then, who is your choice for a star in this draft?

Where the Spurs are projected to draft, I have Dillingham and Buzelis ahead of Collier. If the Spurs were drafting on the back end of the lottery, Collier could be the boom/bust guy there.

[Mr. Body]

From what I've seen...

Strengths: Very fast and strong, aggressive with drives, draws a lot of fouls. Good handles, gets generally anywhere he wants on the court. Can make good passes and cause trouble with his attacks. No-self-doubt type player.

Weaknesses: Wildly off on many basic passes, possibly due to just going too fast, but also lacks touch on shot. Rim misses are very unkind. Poor free throw shooter. Inattentive, low-energy defender. I question his actual feel for game and game management, whether he can manipulate defenses at multiple stages of the game and set up teammates, or if he's one-speed only.

Outlook: Has the tools for star upside, but question marks all around. Can he slow down and process the court in multiple ways? Can he be engaged on defense? Will he get the bulldozing calls at the next level? Can he place his passes and produce a softer touch on his shot?

[The Truth #6]

Where the Spurs are projected to draft, I have Dillingham and Buzelis ahead of Collier. If the Spurs were drafting on the back end of the lottery, Collier could be the boom/bust guy there.

I can see that. As I stated, but got lost in shuffle, is that I prefer Dillingham with our pick and if he's gone I'd probably have to accept Buzelis. With the Toronto pick, if we didn't get a PG with our pick, and Topic is gone, I can see the case for Collier. Or Knecht.

[Ariel]

I can see that. As I stated, but got lost in shuffle, is that I prefer Dillingham with our pick and if he's gone I'd probably have to accept Buzelis. With the Toronto pick, if we didn't get a PG with our pick, and Topic is gone, I can see the case for Collier. Or Knecht.

Yeah, there's a lot of ways it can go, depending on how the lottery goes, what's available where the Spurs pick... if things shape up like you mention, that could be a reasonable outcome, not far from where I stand.

[SpursBills]

Höw about Devin Carter from Providence? bulky, 2-way 6'3" PG, has been having a very productive year, shooting over 47% from the field and almost 38% from 3 on high volume (6.7 3PA), excellent rebounding numbers for a guard, plays his ass off on defense, Hadn't really paid much attention to him early on, but he seems to be rising on mocks, anyone watched him regularly?

Love this guy. He’ll be somewhere between Gary Payton II and Josh Hart if you want a feel for his play style, strengths, and weaknesses. Screams Heat/knicks/grizzlies type player.

[exstatic]

I hear the concerns from everyone and don't necessarily disagree. So, then, who is your choice for a star in this draft?

I’m sticking with Topic. He’s been at the top of most mocks since the start,not even his injury has affected his status.

People have it exactly backwards with him. They say he won’t be able to operate in the paint like he does in Europe, but the spacing is SO much better here. Don’t believe me, believe Luka Doncic when he says so. His paint work should translate seamlessly. He needs to improve his 3 point shot, but his shooting signal is strong with that 88% FT%. He’s got gd size and vision for a PG.

[Mr. Body]

I feel like Devin Cart will get into the lottery. If he doesn't some team will get a bargain.

[LeBowen]

I’m sticking with Topic. He’s been at the top of most mocks since the start,not even his injury has affected his status.

People have it exactly backwards with him. They say he won’t be able to operate in the paint like he does in Europe, but the spacing is SO much better here. Don’t believe me, believe Luka Doncic when he says so. His paint work should translate seamlessly. He needs to improve his 3 point shot, but his shooting signal is strong with that 88% FT%. He’s got gd size and vision for a PG.

Or maybe we should ask Killian Hayes?
Or all the European guards drafted in the past 15 years.
Only two of them made it, Rubio and Doncic. Two most hyped European point guard prospects ever.
The only other good European guard in that timeframe is Bogdanovic, but he came over at 25.

I'm not saying that Topic is a guaranteed bust, but making predictions just because an MVP level player said something is ridiculous.

Using a top5 pick to draft a point guard who's shot is questionable and who's also a horrible defender is a massive risk and if it backfires, we wasted a pick.
Topic will either be a great player or out of the league after his rookie deal.

PATFO should go for it if they think he'll reach elite point guard projections, but I can't stand the overconfidence of some posters just because Topic almost shares the nationality with Doncic.
Would anyone be hoping we draft a domestic PG if he was a questionable shooter and a horrible defender? Obviously not.

[JPB]

I’m sticking with Topic. He’s been at the top of most mocks since the start,not even his injury has affected his status.

People have it exactly backwards with him. They say he won’t be able to operate in the paint like he does in Europe, but the spacing is SO much better here. Don’t believe me, believe Luka Doncic when he says so. His paint work should translate seamlessly. He needs to improve his 3 point shot, but his shooting signal is strong with that 88% FT%. He’s got gd size and vision for a PG.

Givony has him at #4 in his last one, with Dillingham at #3 (previously #7). As expected, murican players will keep on rising. I can see Sheppard, Buzelis or othesr passing Topic soon.

Other mock drafts just copy big dog ones.

[JPB]

Another thing on Topic is that he has little games (specially of interest) left to play till the draft, and barely a few in Euroleague, where he's underperfomed and won't have that much opportunity to show more, specially coming back from injury.

Meaning GMs will mainly have to make their opnion on his fall/summer ABA league games (cough), combine and workouts. Will he be back to 100% then? Seems like he rushed a bit his return. Meanwhile March madness will start and it will all about College guys.

[spurraider21]

Samanic had promise. His at ude was awful.

Buzelis apparently is basketball obsessed and wants to succeed. The shooting is a major concern. As far as comparison, he seems taller and longer than Samanic, maybe, and shiftier with the ball in his hands, more guard like. That said, I'm still not sure he's much of a playmaker for others.

a buzelis comp i came across that actually, kind of depressingly, feels apt is Brandon Ingram but without a good jumper (yet). perhaps with some more defensive gusto, albeit with a notably shorter wingspan

[exstatic]

Or maybe we should ask Killian Hayes?
Or all the European guards drafted in the past 15 years.
Only two of them made it, Rubio and Doncic. Two most hyped European point guard prospects ever.
The only other good European guard in that timeframe is Bogdanovic, but he came over at 25.

I'm not saying that Topic is a guaranteed bust, but making predictions just because an MVP level player said something is ridiculous.

Using a top5 pick to draft a point guard who's shot is questionable and who's also a horrible defender is a massive risk and if it backfires, we wasted a pick.
Topic will either be a great player or out of the league after his rookie deal.

PATFO should go for it if they think he'll reach elite point guard projections, but I can't stand the overconfidence of some posters just because Topic almost shares the nationality with Doncic.
Would anyone be hoping we draft a domestic PG if he was a questionable shooter and a horrible defender? Obviously not.

That MVP made the comment that is directly tied to an important skill set that Topic possesses, mastery inside of the paint. I don’t like him because he’s European, I like him because he’s Nikola Topic, and possesses a wide and varied skill set at a young age.

[exstatic]

Another thing on Topic is that he has little games (specially of interest) left to play till the draft, and barely a few in Euroleague, where he's underperfomed and won't have that much opportunity to show more, specially coming back from injury.

Meaning GMs will mainly have to make their opnion on his fall/summer ABA league games (cough), combine and workouts. Will he be back to 100% then? Seems like he rushed a bit his return. Meanwhile March madness will start and it will all about College guys.

Or, you could judge him on his FIBA U18, where he just killed it. Or, you could judge him by his 17 YO season.

Last year he posted 21.3 PER in 575 mins in Serbia’s KLS, which is a weaker pro league than the Adriatic. For perspective, Vasilije Micic posted 12.9 PER in KLS while being 7 months older than Topic. Bogdan Bogdanovic had an 18.2 PER in KLS while being 2 full years older than Topic, and a 19.2 PER while being 3 full years older.

Bogdanovic was a bit of a late bloomer, but the difference between ages 17 and 20 is gargantuan. For Topic to be that productive that young is incredibly rare. The only international prospect to be notably more productive at age 17 in recent memory was Luka Doncic.

Even Nikola Jokic only played an unproductive 42 KLS minutes when he was 6 months older than KLS Topic with a meager 3.5 PER. Most of his minutes that year came in the u18 league before breaking out the following season when he was draft eligible.

This past summer Topic led Serbia u18 team to the Euro championship, going 7-0 with all wins by double digits as he averaged 15.3 pts, 3.7 rebs, 5.1 asts, 3.1 tovs, and 2.0 steals, with his best performance coming against Spain in the championship game. He was the clear best player on the clear best team.

At every step he appeared to be a serious prospect entering the season, and now he is getting even more serious with his early Adriatic start. It is dangerous to overreact to 3 game samples, but the prior performances make Topic more likely to be real.

I’m not getting talked out of one more of these 18 YO prodigies. I’m just not. I was on Sengün until I wasn’t, and I’m not making that mistake again.

No, he probably won’t be Doncic, but what would 85-90% of Doncic look like next to Wemby? I’d like to find that out.

[LeBowen]

That MVP made the comment that is directly tied to an important skill set that Topic possesses, mastery inside of the paint. I don’t like him because he’s European, I like him because he’s Nikola Topic, and possesses a wide and varied skill set at a young age.

Important skill at what level?
Doncic was dominating Euroleague at his age, Topic's only relevant games were in ABA league that's considerably weaker.

Getting into the paint in those two leagues is very different.

[JPB]

Or, you could judge him on his FIBA U18, where he just killed it. Or, you could judge him by his 17 YO season.



I’m not getting talked out of one more of these 18 YO prodigies. I’m just not. I was on Sengün until I wasn’t, and I’m not making that mistake again.

No, he probably won’t be Doncic, but what would 85-90% of Doncic look like next to Wemby? I’d like to find that out.

Topic is nowhere close to the player Luka is. Not even half the talent, let's not make that mistake. He could be an MVP in Europe but be too limited for the NBA.

Using a high pick on an unathletic, non shooting, non defending euro PG in today's NBA is super risky. As mentioned, no one would back that up for a College player.

Offenses will target him and defenses will pack the paint in picknolls, making things harder for Wemby, not easier like a shooting PG would. Not like he was Magic either out there regarding passing. And I have yet to actually see some real pnr and lob game with a real dominant big from him. His main skill, in the ABA league and U18 anyway, and most of the footage we got from him is penetrating vs. no name stiffs.

By the way, his 3PT% during that U18 Euro: 9.5% (2/21). He just can't shoot AT ALL, and that's behind the closer euro line. Might improve a tad, but de we want a non 3pt threat playing with Wemby, assuming he can? What is the guy worth agaisnt NBA bigs? I bet they're gonna send Golgoths at him to test him during his pre-draft workouts.

[baseline bum]

It comes from the Mexican revolution originally, it’s a french saying to describe an hierarchical organisation with way too many bosses and globally disorganised bc of it.

PS/ I'm surprised tbh with all the STers originating from Mexico I thought it'd be a popular expression

The American equivalent of that is too many chiefs, not enough Indians where Indian means Native American, not guy from India.

[scott]

I've been out on Topic for awhile, personally, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how it pans out. When I watch his highlight videos, I don't see some virtuoso in the paint, I just see a guy making layups against dudes who could never cut it in the NBA.