Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[Light]

Video of Sochan hesitating to shoot threes last season

[Mnky]

It improved instantly after he started doing one handed routine and it's been at around the same level ever since. He actually went from 77% in 23-24 to 70% in 24-25 season.



He shouldn't when the other team is actively daring him to shoot and we're effectively playing 4v5 if he's standing on the perimeter.
There were quite a few late shot clock situations where he had mental collapses and didn't know what to do because he got the ball uncontested at 3pt line.
That can happen. You can be a terrible shooter, but you can't look lost when you get the ball. Either attempt that low percentage shot in rythm or have a solution in mind as the ball is flying towards you.



I said it myself a couple of times that he'd be a good rotation piece for some teams, but the issue is that he's becoming less and less suited for this roster because we keep adding guards who prefer to attack the paint and need shooters around them.
And that's fine, role players usually have specific skillset and have to complement stars of the team. If Jeremy doesn't manage to do so in this upcoming season we move on. That doesn't mean he can't be useful elsewhere.

He improved. Agreed.

Chet holmgreen just finished the finals with averages of 11 pts, 9 reb on 35% fg percentage and 11% 3pt. percentage.
People obsessed over 3 pt percentage for role players when it doesn't matter if they're not volume shooters. Your stars are going to take the shots. Can you make my stars life easier? If you can, you're valuable.

Chet shot 11%. I'll say it again.

The thunders starting lineup shot 33% from 3 in the finals. Team as a whole shot 37%.

People really over play the 3 percentage these days. If Sochan gets anywhere near league average, he's an above average player in the league and likely too expensive to play with Wemby. I'm glad he's taking his time to develop so we can afford a second contract.

[Mnky]

Video of Sochan hesitating to shoot threes last season

[LeBowen]

He improved. Agreed.

Don't try to gimmick me if we're having a normal conversation.

Chet holmgreen just finished the finals with averages of 11 pts, 9 reb on 35% fg percentage and 11% 3pt. percentage.
People obsessed over 3 pt percentage for role players when it doesn't matter if they're not volume shooters. Your stars are going to take the shots. Can you make my stars life easier? If you can, you're valuable.

Chet shot 11%. I'll say it again.

The thunders starting lineup shot 33% from 3 in the finals. Team as a whole shot 37%.

People really over play the 3 percentage these days. If Sochan gets anywhere near league average, he's an above average player in the league and likely too expensive to play with Wemby. I'm glad he's taking his time to develop so we can afford a second contract.

Difference being that every Thunder shooter was respected and noone was dared to shoot all series long.
Which was my entire point.
I'd rather have Jeremy shoot 11% within the flow of the offense than have mental collapses every time he's supposed to take a 3pt shot.

[Mnky]

Don't try to gimmick me if we're having a normal conversation.



Difference being that every Thunder shooter was respected and noone was dared to shoot all series long.
Which was my entire point.
I'd rather have Jeremy shoot 11% within the flow of the offense than have mental collapses every time he's supposed to take a 3pt shot.

That isn't a gimmick. It's recognizing that he has improved statistically and it's wild people still attempt to say he hasn't. He has. That's all there is to it. Hasn't improved to someone's liking? He's the fourth or fifth option in his lineup. I'm fine with where he is if he can do the dirty work.

Playoff basketball is different. Noone slacks on the defensive end. Chet was definitely dared to shoot. Williams had his good games because of how much they dared him. The pacers plan was to keep the ball out of the foul baiters hand. They wanted everyone else to beat them.

Take a look at the video light posted. He's clearly not looking off every shot like people are claiming. He without a doubt passed up shots, I don't think it was notably more or less than anyone else. Peoples bias push them to see what they want to see. He instinctivly looks for the next pass. That's a great attribute to have for a role player next to a couple of high volume players.

His fit is good with Wemby and Fox. It would be amazing if he had an average 3 pt shot. Can't expect players to be perfect man. Got to get past that. He's not the best fit but still a good fit.

[LeBowen]

That isn't a gimmick. It's recognizing that he has improved statistically and it's wild people still attempt to say he hasn't. He has. That's all there is to it.

He made an instant improvement after the switch to one handed shot early in his rookie year and has made no improvements since. Better?

Hasn't improved to someone's liking? He's the fourth or fifth option in his lineup. I'm fine with where he is if he can do the dirty work.

I'm also fine if it works, I don't really care which brand of basketball Spurs play as long as it's successful and consistent.
The thing is that playing him and Castle together didn't work so far and there's no reason for us to believe that will change until shooting improvements happen.
Either Castle develops from a bad shooter to a solid one or Jeremy develops from a non-shooter to a bad shooter.

Playoff basketball is different. Noone slacks on the defensive end. Chet was definitely dared to shoot. Williams had his good games because of how much they dared him. The pacers plan was to keep the ball out of the foul baiters hand. They wanted everyone else to beat them.

You have sag off someone when the defense collapses, but Chet wasn't dared in the "we won't bother contesting even if you hesitate to shoot" way.

Take a look at the video light posted. He's clearly not looking off every shot like people are claiming. He without a doubt passed up shots, I don't think it was notably more or less than anyone else. Peoples bias push them to see what they want to see. He instinctivly looks for the next pass. That's a great attribute to have for a role player next to a couple of high volume players.

When I say passes up shots, I refer to the situations when noone bothers to contest him and the flow of the offense breaks. I'm not referring to him looking for the next pass situations that keep the offense going.

His fit is good with Wemby and Fox. It would be amazing if he had an average 3 pt shot. Can't expect players to be perfect man. Got to get past that. He's not the best fit but still a good fit.

If we're going to have two of Fox/Castle/Harper on the floor at all times we need shooters on the wings. Yes, we could theoretically do without them, but having shooters would be more optimal.
Sochan in his curent iteration also can't play with Kornet.

I always said he got the short end of the stick with those PG and C experiments, but that's how it goes if you're fundamentally flawed.
If we exclude bigs, there wasn't a single non-shooting guard or wing on relevant playoff teams this year. Everyone who played was a better shooter than Jeremy.

If we're actually talking about making him effective even if he doesn't improve as a shooter, his post game has to be better. He'll find himself matched up with bad defenders a lot of the time because he's the lowest priority threat on our team and we can't have no more of those back to the basket dribbles into the paint without even thinking about the next step. He needs to take care of mismatches with confidence.

I agree that if he becomes a solid shooter he'd be a great fit, but like this he's always going to be the weak link.

[scott]

You don't think Sochan can hit four more shots than he did over 91 attempts next year? That's all it would take to get to .351. He shot 28 for 91 for .308, only four more makes would get him to 32/91 for .351.

He needs to shoot better on a higher volume and good enough to draw defenders out to guard him or else he's still not good.

That's the key, it's not just about % - it's volume and %, as you rightfully point out. Right now Jeremy isn't just a bad shooter, he's a non-shooter, and that needs to change. I'll even take 32% on 4+ attempts/game.

The Spurs are significant better if Sochan improves, so that's what I'm hoping for as opposed to others who seem to be rooting for him to fail so they can win SpursTalk points.

[scott]

He improved. Agreed.

Chet holmgreen just finished the finals with averages of 11 pts, 9 reb on 35% fg percentage and 11% 3pt. percentage.
People obsessed over 3 pt percentage for role players when it doesn't matter if they're not volume shooters. Your stars are going to take the shots. Can you make my stars life easier? If you can, you're valuable.

Chet shot 11%. I'll say it again.

The thunders starting lineup shot 33% from 3 in the finals. Team as a whole shot 37%.

People really over play the 3 percentage these days. If Sochan gets anywhere near league average, he's an above average player in the league and likely too expensive to play with Wemby. I'm glad he's taking his time to develop so we can afford a second contract.

The difference, of course, is that Chet shot 38% on almost 4 attempts/game in order to help get OKC to the finals.

Comparing finals stats to regular season stats is meaningless. Sample size and level of compe ion heavily distort that comparison.

[Mnky]

The difference, of course, is that Chet shot 38% on almost 4 attempts/game in order to help get OKC to the finals.

Comparing finals stats to regular season stats is meaningless. Sample size and level of compe ion heavily distort that comparison.

That's irrelevant. They won without him shooting league average. It's clearly not as important as all the other things he contributed.

[Mnky]

He made an instant improvement after the switch to one handed shot early in his rookie year and has made no improvements since. Better?



I'm also fine if it works, I don't really care which brand of basketball Spurs play as long as it's successful and consistent.
The thing is that playing him and Castle together didn't work so far and there's no reason for us to believe that will change until shooting improvements happen.
Either Castle develops from a bad shooter to a solid one or Jeremy develops from a non-shooter to a bad shooter.



You have sag off someone when the defense collapses, but Chet wasn't dared in the "we won't bother contesting even if you hesitate to shoot" way.



When I say passes up shots, I refer to the situations when noone bothers to contest him and the flow of the offense breaks. I'm not referring to him looking for the next pass situations that keep the offense going.



If we're going to have two of Fox/Castle/Harper on the floor at all times we need shooters on the wings. Yes, we could theoretically do without them, but having shooters would be more optimal.
Sochan in his curent iteration also can't play with Kornet.

I always said he got the short end of the stick with those PG and C experiments, but that's how it goes if you're fundamentally flawed.
If we exclude bigs, there wasn't a single non-shooting guard or wing on relevant playoff teams this year. Everyone who played was a better shooter than Jeremy.

If we're actually talking about making him effective even if he doesn't improve as a shooter, his post game has to be better. He'll find himself matched up with bad defenders a lot of the time because he's the lowest priority threat on our team and we can't have no more of those back to the basket dribbles into the paint without even thinking about the next step. He needs to take care of mismatches with confidence.

I agree that if he becomes a solid shooter he'd be a great fit, but like this he's always going to be the weak link.

I don't think it was a flawed item that got his experiments, it was his ability to do anything. His court vision and feel for the game absolutely got better from those horrendous PG experiments. He has a ton of potential. He's a compe or. It's fun to try things out. Fans want him to be a very basic player and that's just not what he is nor is it what the Spurs drafted him to be. They wanted a Swiss army knife and they got it.

Yes he broke the flow of offense. He didn't do it anymore than any other players to be honest. Castle had the same type of moments. Wemby had the same type of moments. Harrison Barnes had those same moments where I remember getting upset he didn't let it fly. Sometimes they're trying to slow the game down. Sometimes they're deliberately looking for a mismatch. There's legitimate reasons why players will turn from a shot that we don't know about. I honestly don't see it the way people are trying to sell it. It wasn't as bad as people are trying to make it seem.

It's odd because in my opinion, he looked for his shot a little too much at times trying to create in wembys rookie year and I feel some of that continued into last year. That's just not his role nor should it be with Wemby and Castle on the floor. But I'm getting off topic.

And once again, Sochan doesn't have to be a shooter if his center is the shooter. That means Sochan is the main rebounder. Which is why he fits so well with Wemby contrary to silly arguments. Wemby prefers the perimeter. Sochan helps him do that and knows how to cut to take advantage of wembys gravity.

I don't want to try to take advantage of Sochan when I have Wemby on the court. Wemby is the mismatch.

Fox is the mismatch. Castle is the mismatch. Harper will likely be the mismatch. I need someone to screen, dive and rebound with my rim crashers.

Back to the original point though, Sochan is definitely better in year 3 than year 1. Statistically and visually. He's smarter, a better passer, a premier iso defender, and he has the right ego playing next to Wemby knowing Wemby is the star.

Young, works hard, wants to improve and doesn't back down from a challenge. Heck yea I'll take that for another contract.

Love seeing him work on his game in the off season. He's doing what people want him to do and they're still whining.

[Jordan Jackson]

That's irrelevant. They won without him shooting league average. It's clearly not as important as all the other things he contributed.

You might be missing the point everyone is rather eloquently trying to explain to you. Chet is/was a good regular season shooter. Defenses HAVE to respect him at distance. Defenders are not going to leave him. No coach is leaving Chet open. Defensive schemes will be geared towards results that leave Sochan being left open.

Sochan/Chet is a poor comparison.

I think Sochan’s going to have a great season. The Spurs are going to make sure he gets paid. But I don’t think he sticks with this roster/team long term.

[scott]

That's irrelevant. They won without him shooting league average. It's clearly not as important as all the other things he contributed.

By that logic, apparently 3pt shooting doesn't matter at all anymore, because OKC won the finals while shooting below league average from 3 during the series.

Of course no one would make that argument, because it's absurd.

I don't think it was a flawed item that got his experiments, it was his ability to do anything. His court vision and feel for the game absolutely got better from those horrendous PG experiments. He has a ton of potential. He's a compe or. It's fun to try things out. Fans want him to be a very basic player and that's just not what he is nor is it what the Spurs drafted him to be. They wanted a Swiss army knife and they got it.

Yes he broke the flow of offense. He didn't do it anymore than any other players to be honest. Castle had the same type of moments. Wemby had the same type of moments. Harrison Barnes had those same moments where I remember getting upset he didn't let it fly. Sometimes they're trying to slow the game down. Sometimes they're deliberately looking for a mismatch. There's legitimate reasons why players will turn from a shot that we don't know about. I honestly don't see it the way people are trying to sell it. It wasn't as bad as people are trying to make it seem.

It's odd because in my opinion, he looked for his shot a little too much at times trying to create in wembys rookie year and I feel some of that continued into last year. That's just not his role nor should it be with Wemby and Castle on the floor. But I'm getting off topic.

And once again, Sochan doesn't have to be a shooter if his center is the shooter. That means Sochan is the main rebounder. Which is why he fits so well with Wemby contrary to silly arguments. Wemby prefers the perimeter. Sochan helps him do that and knows how to cut to take advantage of wembys gravity.

I don't want to try to take advantage of Sochan when I have Wemby on the court. Wemby is the mismatch.

Fox is the mismatch. Castle is the mismatch. Harper will likely be the mismatch. I need someone to screen, dive and rebound with my rim crashers.

Back to the original point though, Sochan is definitely better in year 3 than year 1. Statistically and visually. He's smarter, a better passer, a premier iso defender, and he has the right ego playing next to Wemby knowing Wemby is the star.

Young, works hard, wants to improve and doesn't back down from a challenge. Heck yea I'll take that for another contract.

Love seeing him work on his game in the off season. He's doing what people want him to do and they're still whining.

The two highlighted sections are key, IMO. Sochan, in his current form, helps the other team neutralize the mismatch Wemby presents, because he allows the opposing team to put their C on Sochan instead of on Wemby.

[Mnky]

You might be missing the point everyone is rather eloquently trying to explain to you. Chet is/was a good regular season shooter. Defenses HAVE to respect him at distance. Defenders are not going to leave him. No coach is leaving Chet open. Defensive schemes will be geared towards results that leave Sochan being left open.

Sochan/Chet is a poor comparison.

I think Sochan’s going to have a great season. The Spurs are going to make sure he gets paid. But I don’t think he sticks with this roster/team long term.

That was such a weird approach.

The evidence provided is that you can win with out the need to shoot 40% from three.

The original argument was they needed to be a great shooter to win. The evidence proves that wrong. This isn't deep. You're projecting your inability to take the simple evidence and point provided.

Changing the argument consistently doesn't change the original premise that Sochan not being an elite shooter isn't going to keep the Spurs from winning. That's all there is to it.

[Mnky]

By that logic, apparently 3pt shooting doesn't matter at all anymore, because OKC won the finals while shooting below league average from 3 during the series.

Of course no one would make that argument, because it's absurd.



The two highlighted sections are key, IMO. Sochan, in his current form, helps the other team neutralize the mismatch Wemby presents, because he allows the opposing team to put their C on Sochan instead of on Wemby.

Wemby is going to be a mismatch for everyone. That's the benefit of having a superstar. If he was a regular player, then yes, the fit would be more complex and an issue. It isn't in this case. However, there are benefits in this case for Sochan fit towards Wemby.

The argument isn't that 3% doesn't matter. Why do the arguments continue to shift over this topic? It's purely that he doesn't need to be an all world shooter at this point with everything else he brings. There are more positives than negatives and it being a 30% shooter is the biggest flag people can come up with against Sochan, man he's working on it and people are hating him for it.
This is what people are pointing out in response to the hate he's receiving. He's literally showing he's working on the one thing people keep pushing and their response is we need to move on.

That's the absurd argument.

[scott]

Wemby is going to be a mismatch for everyone. That's the benefit of having a superstar. If he was a regular player, then yes, the fit would be more complex and an issue. It isn't in this case. However, there are benefits in this case for Sochan fit towards Wemby.

The argument isn't that 3% doesn't matter. Why do the arguments continue to shift over this topic? It's purely that he doesn't need to be an all world shooter at this point with everything else he brings. There are more positives than negatives and it being a 30% shooter is the biggest flag people can come up with against Sochan, man he's working on it and people are hating him for it.
This is what people are pointing out in response to the hate he's receiving. He's literally showing he's working on the one thing people keep pushing and their response is we need to move on.

That's the absurd argument.

There are lots of players Wemby isn't a mismatch for though. We've all seen it with our own eyes. And unfortunately right now, playing Sochan with Wemby allows other teams to have an easier ability to counter Wemby on their defensive end.

I agree he doesn't need to be an all world shooter. I said in a previous post, I'll be happy with 32% on 4 attempts/game. But right now he's a complete non-shooter, and it makes him unplayable at times. Being a 30% isn't his biggest negative.. being a complete nothing on the offensive game, resulting in the team playing 4v5 is his biggest negative.

I agree though that it's good he is working on it. Not really much else we can ask for, right? It's not like he's going to become a good shooter by meditating on it. Practice is a good thing. I hope it translates on the court.

[SpursFan86]

Anyone else feeling more confident that the Spurs extend Sochan given us making no other moves at PF this offseason? Clearly they’re pretty high on him if they’re fine to go into the season with a PF rotation of Sochan/Barnes/Bryant*/Keldon**

*Really hard for me to imagine the Spurs are expecting Bryant to earn noticeable minutes at the 4 this year
**If playing Keldon at the 4 is part of their rotational strategy this year we have serious problems

[Jordan Jackson]

That was such a weird approach.

The evidence provided is that you can win with out the need to shoot 40% from three.

The original argument was they needed to be a great shooter to win. The evidence proves that wrong. This isn't deep. You're projecting your inability to take the simple evidence and point provided.

Changing the argument consistently doesn't change the original premise that Sochan not being an elite shooter isn't going to keep the Spurs from winning. That's all there is to it.

You pointed to an exception to the rule. Presti unloaded Giddey because he wasn’t a credible shooter and dragged the team down in the playoffs versus Dallas (plus he’s a pervert…allegedly… that didn’t help either).

The Spurs roster is being built around an elite big. Yes, he is going to need elite shooting around him. A lot of it. Stand still and movement shooters would be nice.

How about the Spurs try not be stupid like the Nuggets have been. Now that’s an example you might want to lean into as to what happens when you don’t surround your elite big with high level shooters.

As for Sochan, no team trying to win at the highest level should be bending its schemes and roster construction to accommodate a role player.

I think we can all agree, he’s not hall of fame bound and unlikely to be an all star. Clearly, the Spurs seem to think otherwise, hence choosing him as their big forward over Jdub. That’s their choice.

Maybe in a year or two it doesn’t look as bad. But as of right now, it doesn’t look good.

[picnroll]

Argument is that if Sochan shot 4 3 pts at 35% that it would give Wemby a better matchup. Would that have taken Dillon Brooks off Wemby? Why weren’t the Nuggets able to keep Caruso off Jokic in the playoffs with their 3 pt shooting? I’m all for Sochan improving but making his 1 extra shot a game at 3-5% greater efficiency but that being the Spurs offensive failure point is completely bogus. Castle improving his efficiency and FT shooting and hopefully Harper being efficient are far, far greater needs for the Spurs offenses succeess.

[Mnky]

It's not like he's going to become a good shooter by meditating on it.

Now if Wemby returns from the monestary shooting 50% from 3, we're going to have to revisit this conversation.

[Mnky]

You pointed to an exception to the rule. Presti unloaded Giddey because he wasn’t a credible shooter and dragged the team down in the playoffs versus Dallas (plus he’s a pervert…allegedly… that didn’t help either).

The Spurs roster is being built around an elite big. Yes, he is going to need elite shooting around him. A lot of it. Stand still and movement shooters would be nice.

How about the Spurs try not be stupid like the Nuggets have been. Now that’s an example you might want to lean into as to what happens when you don’t surround your elite big with high level shooters.

As for Sochan, no team trying to win at the highest level should be bending its schemes and roster construction to accommodate a role player.

I think we can all agree, he’s not hall of fame bound and unlikely to be an all star. Clearly, the Spurs seem to think otherwise, hence choosing him as their big forward over Jdub. That’s their choice.

Maybe in a year or two it doesn’t look as bad. But as of right now, it doesn’t look good.

The nuggets literally won a ring. What are you yapping on about now?

Once again, the argument changes. He's now being compared to hall of famers and schemes being designed around him. Some of y'all really struggle with sticking to a point.

The argument has always been, he's a good young player who is getting better. He doesn't need to be an above average shooter to be effective. That's all.

He's working on his weaknesses. People are happy to see it. Negative Nancy's are showing up to whine about it and complain as if it's a bad thing. That's silly.
That is all. Have a good day bro.

[ace3g]

Poland NT Eurobasket 2025 group play schedule:

Also get some friendly games in early August.

[Splits]

Poland NT Eurobasket 2025 group play schedule:

[itzsoweezee]

Sochan’s problem is not his lack of shooting, it’s his low basketball skills. He could get by without being a good shooter if he was a good passer, if he knew where to move on offense, if he could make good decisions when he puts the ball on the floor. He can’t do any of these things right now, which means his usefulness on offense is very limited and sometimes negative. He has the skills of a backup center, but, unfortunately, he’s 6’7”.

[TimDunkem]

Sochan’s problem is not his lack of shooting, it’s his low basketball skills. He could get by without being a good shooter if he was a good passer, if he knew where to move on offense, if he could make good decisions when he puts the ball on the floor. He can’t do any of these things right now, which means his usefulness on offense is very limited and sometimes negative. He has the skills of a backup center, but, unfortunately, he’s 6’7”.

He also clearly has a low IQ.

[ace3g]

Eurobasket vlog.