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Surprised they didn't give him five years.
oh. it's 44 not 40. but at least one guy will tell to us that this still is a steal, compared to the 36 Tiago got.
Surprised they didn't give him five years.
Neither are a steal.
It's a steal compared to what Splitter got let's be honest.
Call me when Tiago finish top 3 MIP and DPOY (and that doesn't even take into account the age difference).
The fact that Sanders is younger than Splitter is actually a strike against him. The Spurs are paying for Splitter's physical prime, while the Bucks are paying for the years leading up to Sanders' prime. By the time Sanders is Splitter's age, he'll be making almost twice as much as Splitter is now. It's like the difference between giving a 21-year-old guard $11 Million for four years and giving a 25-year-old guard the same. The latter is a significantly better deal than the former.
And that's not even addressing the fact that Splitter's significantly better than Sanders is and is honestly likely to remain better than Sanders for the next four years.
lol. death, taxes and internet insanity.
Wow tiago getting mad love
Yes not sure where that comes from. Certainly not from his resume :
2012 : pissed his pants when he got hacked shooting way lower than his season average at the line
2013 : worst player in the Lakers series and couldn't even get on the floor in the Finals, was a non factor in the post season for the third year in a row
Will be remembered for being blocked by Lebron.
Can be defended by any point guard since he doesn't have a post game and is soft as .
Has zero range.
But somehow the T-Vag lovers insist that he's better than a top 3 MIP and DPOY center, guy is on pace to have a worse PO career than Bonner.
Yeah, Sanders really stepped up in the playoffs. I mean, who can deny his epic 93 ORtg and 107 DRtg?
Not really. Given how athletically reliant Sanders is, there's a good chance that the four year extension will encompass a good amount of his physical prime.
Only if the latter projects to be better than the former over the life of the contract.It's like the difference between giving a 21-year-old guard $11 Million for four years and giving a 25-year-old guard the same. The latter is a significantly better deal than the former.
If that's the case, then his deal won't seem very good in three years. He should continue to get stronger and fill out until he's about 28 or so.
I feel that's the case typically. Contracts given out to guards that age are usually due to production and not potential. Most of the time players get overpaid in the league, it's because teams project them to be worth more than they actually are. I think there's less risk and thus a better expected return to give players in their prime big money over players who you hope reach their prime.Only if the latter projects to be better than the former over the life of the contract.
Pek just got 5 years and $60 million from the tpups
Yes not sure where that comes from. Certainly not from his resume :
2012 : pissed his pants when he got hacked shooting way lower than his season average at the line
2013 : worst player in the Lakers series and couldn't even get on the floor in the Finals, was a non factor in the post season for the third year in a row
Will be remembered for being blocked by Lebron.
Can be defended by any point guard since he doesn't have a post game and is soft as .
Has zero range.
But somehow the T-Vag lovers insist that he's better than a top 3 MIP and DPOY center
Sanders is a worse offensive player. A career true shooting percentage that 11% lower than Splitters.
12-13 Season
Offensive Win Share
Splitter-4.7
Sanders-2.3
Field Goal Percentage
Splitter-56.0%
Sanders-50.6%
True Shooting Percentage
Splitter-60.9%
Sanders-52.3
Per 36 minute PPG
Splitter-15.1
Sanders-12.1
Offensive Rating
Splitter-118
Sanders-109
Splitter and Sanders are essentially equal defenders, Sanders is a better individual defender (slightly) and Splitter is clearly the better team defender.
Sanders, blocks more shots but has a much higher foul rate. If he doesn't block your shot he's likely going to send someone to the free throw line.
Sander defensive rating of 98 isn't drastically lower than Splitters 101. Sanders 3.7 Defensive Win share is just .2 better than Splitters 3.5.
Splitter was apart of the 3rd best defensive unit in the NBA last year. He helped the Spurs rank 3rd in Defensive rating after ranking 11th the previous season. The spurs second best five man unit (Parker, Green, Leonard, Duncan & Diaw) were 6 points worse per 100 possessions defensively than the same lineup with Splitter even though that unit logged played a lot more minutes together.
Who cares what non spurs fans remember him by. If he wins a le with us he'll be remembered by Spurs fans as our starting center on a le team.
Talking about "pissing his pants" your "defensive anchor" had 5 block and 18 personal fouls in his postseason "run" with the Bucks he also had a turnover percentage of 24.7%. Saw his offensive rating dip from 109 to 93, (Splitters was 107) and his horrid 58% FT percentage drop to 45%.
By the way Splitter actually doubled his free throw percentage from the '12 post season to the '13 postseason. and nearly 20% from his rookie campaign to now, Sanders shot; 56.0 % (rookie) -47.4(sop re)-61.8 (this past season) far worse than Tiago.
2013 Improved his Free throw shooting by 34% since his rookie season, Came up big in game 3 of the WCF, blocking a potential game winning layup and scoring 4 points and 6 and an assist In OT. That essentially wrapped up the series and helped us get back to the finals for the 1st time in 5 seasons.
Seriously this is getting embarrassing, man you're argument is nonsensical. Splitter as of now is a better player and getting paid $8 million less over the next 4 seasons. There is always a chance Sanders could stop developing and turn into a Dre Jordan. And then the Bucks could regret paying a large deal without waiting another year. McGee is far more gifted an athlete and is another talented shot blocker and has yet to developed into much more than a "per minute monster" in Denver. I wouldn't be that optimistic in Sanders becoming a perennial DVOP candidate.
Think of how few great big man defenders there are. Duncan, Noah, Hibbert, Howard, Chandler Garnett. Its more likely Sanders falls in to the better than average type of defender who is always going to be an unpolished offensively.
I think Chinook meant Splitter is experienced and has a track record. Him performing up to his contract is less a risk than Sanders, who just last season broke out. Sanders also has a lot of improving to do on offense while Splitter is already a more polished player. Sanders has talent to surpass Splitter and become the better value of the two but Splitters deal is definitely better because we know exactly what we're getting, The Bucks aren't that lucky and have to pay an addition $8 million.
For his production and his market value contract, it makes sense. Pek is getting $60 over 5 years. Sanders is getting 4 years $44 million. Both seem to be effectively mostly on offense or defense. Splitter is an efficient offensive player and a great team defender.
Spurs made an solid investment that will look even better down the road, IMO.
Pretty much. The Spurs are playing Splitter for what he is, and the Bucks are paying Sanders for what they hope he becomes. But Sanders won't reach his prime until after that contract is up, so the Bucks are paying for a player who won't exist while they're paying him. Splitter's at least a $9 Million player now. Sanders is at best a $7 Million player now whose value may be able to increase to $10 Million or so in three or four years.
It's strange that developing Sanders and prime T-Vag have the same PERs... Where do the two millions difference comes from in your estimate? Do you penalize Sanders for playing more minutes or for being the best defender on his own team, I can't tell.
Just gottaat a top 3 DPOY and MIP center being worth 7M, that's some funny .
Last edited by Baam; 08-17-2013 at 06:48 PM.
Yeah you know you're getting nothing in the post season.
...and you know what nothing looks like when you see it. You've got it down to an art.
Care to guess how many MIP candidates end up being worth their next deals? Not many, since they tend to be flashes in the pan on mediocre teams. As far as DPOY goes, Sanders didn't have anywhere near the WS/48 the max or near-max players who actually end up winning the awards did. I don't see how you can keep repping that award when Duncan was clearly a better defender and barely got consideration.It's strange that developing Sanders and prime T-Vag have the same PERs... Where do the two millions difference comes from in your estimate? Do you penalize Sanders for playing more minutes or for being the best defender on his own team, I can't tell.
Just gotta
You're the one who doesn't understand how PER and DRtg are calculated. PER is an easy stat to inflate on a bad team, since it's pretty much taken as a percentage plays made in relation to those made by the rest of the team. Essentially, Splitter is competing with the Spurs' players for production while Sanders is competing with Bucks players for the same. The average PER for a Spurs player was 14.6, while the Bucks had an average PER of 12.8. Therefore, Splitter's PER means more than Sanders' does.
Defensive rating comes from two aspects. One is literally team defensive rating. The other is essentially the number of impact plays (blocks and steals) and rebounds and an estimate on how many shots are altered in relation to other teammates. It doesn't do anything for players to play good positional defense and deny entry passes, since that doesn't show up in the box scores. That's why big men who play no defense (Boozer) and point-guards who gamble for steals (Rondo and Paul) tend to have high DRtgs. It also discounts PFs in relation to blocks, which means a foul-happy shot-blocker like Sanders gets a little more credit than he deserves. Great defensive bigs like Duncan will get high DRtgs justifiably but a lot of solid defensive wings won't.
Yeah but he didn't win either of those awards did he? $7 million is more than fair. Splitter is a much more polished player on both ends and is a 4th or 5th option on a championship caliber team. Sanders is going to be the best player on the worst team in the east. Chances are he won't develop into nearly a well rounded player as Splitter for years. Likely not in the next 4 or 5 years.It's strange that developing Sanders and prime T-Vag have the same PERs... Where do the two millions difference comes from in your estimate? Do you penalize Sanders for playing more minutes or for being the best defender on his own team, I can't tell.
Just gotta
young athletic big men with defensive mindsets rarely turn into all stars. If they do, its tends to be in age range of 27-30. More often then not they don't fully develop into and become a 1 sided threat.
Tyson Chandler for example bounced around from Chicago, New Orleans, Charlotte, Dallas, and to New York. Didn't make All defensive team till 2011 (10 seasons, at the age of 28) and didn't win a DVOP untill 29.
It's strange that developing Sanders and prime T-Vag have the same PERs... Where do the two millions difference comes from in your estimate? Do you penalize Sanders for playing more minutes or for being the best defender on his own team, I can't tell.
Just gotta
Duncan's 2.7 blocks to 1.5 personal fouls is a prime example of great defense. Sanders blocking a shot of fouling someone in the act of shooting...not so much.
While Sanders gets more FGA, Splitter gets better looks and faces less defensive pressure playing with All Stars, it's also easier for him to get assists, it doesn't make sense to nitpick because it goes both ways... Besides the whole point of PER is to compare players across the league...
Defensive rating is extremely straight forward as an indicator tbh, but somehow it's also part of a mysterious conspiracy to make Sanders look better than he isDefensive rating comes from two aspects. One is literally team defensive rating. The other is essentially the number of impact plays (blocks and steals) and rebounds and an estimate on how many shots are altered in relation to other teammates. It doesn't do anything for players to play good positional defense and deny entry passes, since that doesn't show up in the box scores. That's why big men who play no defense (Boozer) and point-guards who gamble for steals (Rondo and Paul) tend to have high DRtgs. It also discounts PFs in relation to blocks, which means a foul-happy shot-blocker like Sanders gets a little more credit than he deserves. Great defensive bigs like Duncan will get high DRtgs justifiably but a lot of solid defensive wings won't..
Somehow it's suddenly about Sanders vs Duncan now
Duncan's 2.7 blocks to 1.5 personal fouls is a prime example of great defense. Sanders blocking a shot of fouling someone in the act of shooting...not so much..
It's not about the straight number of assists, points, etc. PER uses percentages. So for example on a team where there are several great rebounders (not saying the Spurs), each of them will have a lower rebound percentage, because there are more people competing for the boards. This applies to stats like assists as well. So Sanders just has to be the best player on his team to have a good PER. Splitter has to be so good in the non-percentage-of-the-team areas, like TS% and TOV% that he overcomes the fact that he gets a comparatively small percentage of the pie. This doesn't mean Sanders is a bad player, but it's very likely that his PER would be lower on the Spurs and that Splitter's would be a lot higher on the Bucks.
Team defensive rating is very straight-forward. It's just the number of points allowed per 100 possessions. Individual defensive rating is actually really complicated, and it makes a ton of assumptions. That means you have to take it with a grain of salt. Look at the formulae yourself.Defensive rating is extremely straight forward as an indicator tbh, but somehow it's also part of a mysterious conspiracy to make Sanders look better than he is
http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html
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