Atheism on the rise in every single US state.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Great! Thanks for this conversation. It's fun to dicuss theological arguments for me, especially since it can be tough to find believers willing to engage in logical argumentation.

So, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you feel that the desire to sin will be erased in some fashion from the human condition.

To reflect on your TWA analogy, no one's been 'brainwashed' into not selecting TWA. However, no one has the CAPABILITY to choose TWA, no?

Now, IIRC, you've said that the capability to perform sin would be eliminated in Heaven. Since sin can also be mental, and it is human to sin, some would say, to me it would seem to take some form of mental manipulation to PREVENT us from sinning, even in Heaven (hence my 'brainwashing' example.)

If the human brain is incapable of processing the idea of sin, then it follows that we would not be able to sin (reflections of 1984's paring down of language there). But that still seems like it would almost take a form of brainwashing, rather than a spontaneous free will gesture on the part of everyone who enters Heaven. I assume the latter is your contention?

I'm not sure if there's a different way for me to put it. Evil will not exist. Period. So, if desiring evil is inherently evil, that desire will simply not be there. There will be no convincing required. No manipulation will be necessary. The evil will simply not exist. It's not an issue of the brain processing sin, it's that there is no sin for the brain to process.

[Blake]

I never asked him to prove that GOD didn't exist (for that matter, Science can't either).... I said his statement was unfounded... that's all... Still, you decided to go on some self-pompous crusade trying to back up your faulty logic. No matter how many times you try to punctuate a thought with the word "fail," it won't change the fact that what I've said is by very definition true...

I know you never asked him to prove that GOD didn't exist.

you said this:

You stated:

There is no do ented proof that GOD ever presented himself to earthlings [mankind].

I then stated that your comment could not be proven either way.

I said, actually his comment could be proven one of those ways. I said 'you fail'. You got butt hurt over that and said I've done nothing but TROLL.

just because you say something that is true by definition won't change the fact that it fails as an argument.

That you don't want to accept that truth at face value is not my problem...

I accept the truth that trees can fall in a forest with nobody around.

You failing in this thread is not my problem.

[baseline bum]

Heaven sounds pretty bland.

[Phenomanul]

I know you never asked him to prove that GOD didn't exist.

you said this:



I said, actually his comment could be proven one of those ways. I said 'you fail'. You got butt hurt over that and said I've done nothing but TROLL.

just because you say something that is true by definition won't change the fact that it fails as an argument.

your insecurity complex is really something to behold...

I accept the truth that trees can fall in a forest with nobody around.

So then not everything in history has been explicitly do ented? You don't say!

Don't let that subtle concession slam you in the face on the way out...

[IronMexican]

Heaven sounds gay. None of those things I Love Me listed effect me.

[I Love Me Some Me]

1. that's a contradiction of you saying that heaven will be the same in the future as it was when Lucifer sinned.



2. so Lucifer and angels in heaven are able to turn against God because they have/had the capacity, but we will not?

if Heaven is the same, that makes no sense.

3. Why will the notion to turn against God be removed unless our free will has been removed?



4. Nope. Doesn't jive.

Evil has not been defeated and Satan/Lucifer exists on the same dimensional plane as the people currently living in Heaven.

How can Satan have the capability to sin, but people currently in Heaven do not, unless their free will has been removed?

I numbered these since I can't multi-quote from my phone.

1. You'll have to explain the contradiction, because it's not abundantly clear to me.

2. Lucifer was able to turn against God because he was created with perfect wisdom. He was aware of the existence of evil, and chose to rebel because he wanted to be worshipped like God. The angels sent with him were decieved into following him. No other angel was created with that knowledge.

3. If the notion itself is evil, and the evil is removed, the notion is non-existant.

4. This doesn't jive because your understanding is wrong. Satan does not exist on the same "dimensional level" as those in heaven. In fact, the
Bible says he was "cast out into the earth."

Again, the people who have died and are in heaven are not susceptible to the temptations of this world because they do not have physical bodies.

[Phenomanul]

Heaven sounds gay. None of those things I Love Me listed effect me.

The Bible speaks more of ' ' than it does of heaven...

I wouldn't be nearly as dismissive of how could affect its inhabitants.

[Blake]

So, hypothetically speaking, lets say someone presented us with an opprtunity to remove all the horrible things of this world. No more rape, no more torture, no more child abuse or molestation, no more hunger, no more poverty, no more genocide, no more war, no more sickness...but , in the process we'd have to lose things like drunkenness, drug use, casual sex, porn, and other things like that.

It goes to a global vote....you'd vote no?

from an earthly standpoint, that is a ridiculous poll. Drunkeness in public and drug use are currently against the law. There's also no way to give up casual sex without giving up your free will.

from a heavenly standpoint, what kind of sex will there be? I'm guessing none.

But that's not the type of sin I've been asking you about.

[Blake]

your insecurity complex is really something to behold...

your continued attempt to prove something using the same failed argument repeatedly is fun to read.

So then not everything in history has been explicitly do ented? You don't say!

Don't let that subtle concession slam you in the face on the way out...

Nope and it's not an argument of any kind no matter how many times you say it.

Keep punching yourself in the face though. It's really something to behold.....

[baseline bum]

If I can't get laid in heaven, bring on .

It sounds more like heaven and are isomorphic to each other; the same thing with different names.

[Duff McCartney]

"The spirit makes it clear that as time goes on, some are going to give up on the faith and chase after illusions put forth by professional liars. These liars have lied so well and for so long that they've lost their capacity for truth. They will tell you not to get married. They will tell you not to eat this or that food..."

Doesn't the Bible do the same thing? You know with the whole s fish/pork thing.

I personally am a devout atheist but what I am not is a militant atheist. Nothing will ever change my atheism at all. But I do understand why people follow religion and believe there is a god.

I think people make too much of a big deal about religion in general. People love to tell you that they are Christian, Muslim whatever...but to me that's a totally irrelevent subject. The worlds most devout christian is no different to me than the worlds most devout atheist. You might as well told me something just as irrelevent like your blood type...it might have importance to me if you die but not likely.

[Blake]

The Bible speaks more of ' ' than it does of heaven...

I wouldn't be nearly as dismissive of how could affect its inhabitants.

why am I not surprised you are talking out of your ass again.

[Phenomanul]

your continued attempt to prove something using the same failed argument repeatedly is fun to read.

Not as depressing as seeing your failure to grasp it.

Now hurry! Find someway to hurl that comment back towards me... (your shtick has become rather tiresome...)

Nope and it's not an argument of any kind no matter how many times you say

Keep punching yourself in the face though. It's really something to behold.....

What's really amusing is that you can't produce any original smack of your own...

I mean seriously? Can you not find any of your own idioms??? Lame.

[baseline bum]

Nothing will ever change my atheism at all.

I'd like to think most atheists would be open to change their minds if there was any convincing demonstration of a god's existence being likely.

[Blake]

Not as depressing as seeing your failure to grasp it.

Now hurry! Find someway to hurl that comment back towards me... (your shtick has become rather tiresome...)

and yet here you are.

more fail.

What's really amusing is that you can't produce any original smack of your own...

I mean seriously? Can you not find any of your own idioms??? Lame.

what's amusing is that your arguments are lame and your logic fails.

please provide a source that says is mentioned more than heaven.

[Blake]

I'd like to think most atheists would be open to change their minds if there was any convincing demonstration of a god's existence being likely.

there is no proof that God doesn't exist.

yours truly,
phenomanul

[Phenomanul]

and yet here you are.

more fail.

I've been a member of this forum long before you were... is that the best you could muster???

what's amusing is that your arguments are lame and your logic fails.

Suuuuuuureee buddy! Whatever helps you sleep at night.

please provide a source that says is mentioned more than heaven.

So now you want to change the subject??? I do believe the point of emphasis in my comment to IronMexican was "Don't have a dismissive at ude towards "...

Besides, there are so many different terms and symbolisms to describe both heaven and that you're not likely to find exact numbers....

Sheol, hades, tartaroo (or tartarus), gehenna, etc...

Heaven, the third sky, Kingdom of GOD, eternal life, etc....

Fact of the matter is Jesus himself gave the topic of enough burn.

[MiamiHeat]

there -is- proof that god does not exist

aside from the obvious one that you live on this planet with -0- interaction with a god...

human history and the evolution of world religions. study it and you will find the 'smoking gun'

start way back with the Sumerian civilization, in particular the epic of Gilgamesh to see exactly where the flood story comes from...

then work your way down through history, through the babylonian, persian and egyptian empires, etc...to around 1600-1700ish CE, and you'll see it for yourself. it becomes very obvious.

[Blake]

I've been a member of this forum long before you were... is that the best you could muster???

you've been a member of the forum this long and you still are getting owned this badly?

Suuuuuuureee buddy! Whatever helps you sleep at night.

your failures have nothing to do with my getting sleep at night, but laughing at your ignorant posts has made for some fun today.

So now you want to change the subject??? I do believe the point of emphasis in my comment to IronMexican was "Don't have a dismissive at ude towards "...

I'm not changing anything. You brought up being mentioned more than heaven in the bible. I'd like to see your source.

Besides, there are so many different terms and symbolisms to describe both heaven and that you're not likely to find exact numbers....[

Sheol, hades, tartaroo (or tartarus), gehenna, etc...

Heaven, the third sky, Kingdom of GOD, eternal life, etc....

Fact of the matter is Jesus himself gave the topic of enough burn.

pick a translation and go with it.

what's your source? I'm betting it's your ass.

[Blake]

there -is- proof that god does not exist

no, there isn't

just because man might have made up stories about a higher power does not mean that a higher power does not exist.

[CuckingFunt]

So, hypothetically speaking, lets say someone presented us with an opprtunity to remove all the horrible things of this world. No more rape, no more torture, no more child abuse or molestation, no more hunger, no more poverty, no more genocide, no more war, no more sickness...but , in the process we'd have to lose things like drunkenness, drug use, casual sex, porn, and other things like that.

It goes to a global vote....you'd vote no?

So, then, "getting laid" = drunkenness, drug use, casual sex, porn, and more? That's a pretty big leap.

[MiamiHeat]

no, there isn't

just because man might have made up stories about a higher power does not mean that a higher power does not exist.

Lol

If Mankind invented the idea of a God, it means there is no God.

If you want to hold onto the possibility that we invented the concept of God, but there still could be "a" God, then you are desperate.

[MiamiHeat]

So, then, "getting laid" = drunkenness, drug use, casual sex, porn, and more? That's a pretty big leap.

All of those Christian ideals come from pagan and much older religions, it's the whole philosophy of denying yourself, your 'animal' self, your 'primal' human flesh so that you can 'grow' into a spiritual self. This doesn't originate in christianity at all.

[Blake]

Lol

If Mankind invented the idea of a God, it means there is no God.

If you want to hold onto the possibility that we invented a God, but there still could be "a" God, then you are desperate.

no, it means that the existence of a God or higher power is a theory.

do you always shoot down theories if they lack physical evidence?

[MiamiHeat]

LOL.

First of all, change

"do you always shoot down theories if they lack physical evidence?"

to

"do you always shoot down theories if they lack any evidence?"

and then take a look at the scientific process on planet earth.