IN THEIR PRIME, which big man was the best?

[ShoogarBear]

It is a little easier to avoid being swept when you only play 1 or 2 series each playoffs. But when you are constantly making it to the conference finals and the finals, you tend to run into better teams, and you also have 3 and 4 chances of being swept, as opposed to only having one chance of being swept.

Back to AA with you.

[DirkAB]

This would be the same Jazz team that Swept Shaq's All Star Laker Team?

Right? Hypocrite ?

All-star team, yeah. Fisher, Fox, Horry, Campbell, and Kobe's second year. Nice all-star team.

[whottt]

What have you proved sucker?

I've posted boxscores, head to head winning records, post season and otehrwise...

Statistical analysis of individual highs, biggest turn around record wise in NBA history...never failing to have a winning record or miss the post season.

The teams you keep bringing up as evidence of Drob's choking and softness swept Shaq in the same post seasons, with Shaq having mutiple all stars on his team.

He had the better season highs in every category but FG% and RB...he won 2 les against him, including when he was broken down old man and Shaq had Kobe ing Bryant.

What have you proved bag?

This is most pathetic pro Shaq argument I have ever seen.

I want you explain to me how you watched them compete in the mid 90's and concluded Shaq was more dominant when Drob was hanging triple double and near quads on his ass , beating him every time, outscoring him every time.


Tell me ...now, or the shut the up. Why is Shaq better? Prove it.

[whottt]

All-star team, yeah. Fisher, Fox, Horry, Campbell, and Kobe's second year. Nice all-star team.

Drob won a le with Duncan in Duncan's second year.

Eddie Jones was an All Star...as was Nick Van Exel.....those guys in addition to the core of the three time champion Lakers.

[baseline bum]

All-star team, yeah. Fisher, Fox, Horry, Campbell, and Kobe's second year. Nice all-star team.

Nick Van Exel - 1998 All-Star
Eddie Jones - 1998 All-Star
Kobe Bryant - 1998 All-Star

I'm not trying to argue that David > Shaq (that's insane), but recognize Robinson's 95 cast wasn't championship level without Rodman showing up. The only cast he ever had that I would consider a le-good was the one he had in 1990 with Strickland/Anderson/Elliott (rookie)/ mings and Brickowski off the bench. The cast that was split up by Red McCombs being too cheap to pay Strick, and TC blowing out his knee.

[whottt]

It is a little easier to avoid being swept when you only play 1 or 2 series each playoffs. But when you are constantly making it to the conference finals and the finals, you tend to run into better teams, and you also have 3 and 4 chances of being swept, as opposed to only having one chance of being swept.

...those teams swept Shaq in the same season they didn't sweep Drob. And Shaq's carrying mutiple All Stars on his freaking team.

[fyatuk]

It is a little easier to avoid being swept when you only play 1 or 2 series each playoffs. But when you are constantly making it to the conference finals and the finals, you tend to run into better teams, and you also have 3 and 4 chances of being swept, as opposed to only having one chance of being swept.

Just so you know, between 93/94 and 98/99, Shaq played in 15 playoff series, the Robinson played in 12 (would have been more if Robinson didn't blow out his back).

Shaq was swept 5/15 series, or 1/3 of the time.

Robinson was never swept in that time frame.

In fact, Robinson was only swept twice in 26 series in his carreer.

Just thought I'd point that out.

[whottt]

Here's the anatomy of soft choking David Robinson:

This is the 4th quarter breakdown of game 1 of the 95 WCF

4th Quarter:
Robinson gets 2 inside. Hou misses on 3 attempts. Robinson
drains the baseliner. Offensive foul on C Jones. 74-72 Hou
10:29. Robinson to the cutting A Johnson for the over the
shoulder layup. A Johnson strips Cassell, A Johnson to Reid for
2. 5 second inbounds violation on Hou. Into Robinson for the
layup. Olajuwon misses. A Johnson misses. Elie drains the 3.
78-77 SA 8:23. Rivers 1 of 2 - Olajuwon's 5th. Brown misses
driving. Robinson misses. Cassell misses the open 3. Into Reid
for the layup. Drexler misses driving. Rivers 1 of 2 - Hou in
the penalty. 82-77 SA 6:38. Olajuwon gets 2 up close. C Jones
ties up Robinson. SA controls. 3 second violation on Rodman.
Elie misses the 3. Elliott 1 of 2. Olajuwon to C Jones for the
slam. Offensive foul on Robinson. 83-81 SA 4:37. Olajuwon
spins in for the layup. Robinson 1 of 2. Drexler 2 of 2.
Robinson 2 of 2. Olajuwon 2 of 2. Robinson gets the layup
inside. 88-87 SA 2:51. Elie swishes the 3. Elliott drives for
the layup. Olajuwon misses, A Johnson takes it all the way for
the layup. Cassell 2 of 2. Rivers misses the 3, Rodman
rebounds, misses, rebounds, and calls timeout. 92-92 1:13.
Rodman misses inside, ahead to (slight over pass) Drexler who
misses the layup. Robinson 1 of 2. 45.9 seconds. Rivers strips
Olajuwon, Elliott is fouled on the break. Misses both. Timeout
Hou. 93-92 SA 24.1 seconds. Hou passes the ball around and
Horry steps in for 17 foot jumper. Timeout SA. 6.5 seconds.
Elliott misses. Game over.

Final: Houston 94, San Antonio 93.
Player of the game: Clyde Drexler with 25 points and 12
rebounds.
Houston leads the series 1-0.



Drob was 4-5 from the field in that quarter, 4-6 from the FT line...12 points on 80% shooting from the field.

Hakeem was 2-4 from the field...2-2 from the FT line...

Does that look like a choke to you, idiot?

Note this sequence again:

Elliott is fouled on the break. Misses both. Timeout
Hou. 93-92 SA 24.1 seconds. Hou passes the ball around and
Horry steps in for 17 foot jumper. Timeout SA. 6.5 seconds.
Elliott misses. Game over.[/quote]


Elliott - misses both
Horry - steps in for 17 foot jumper.


This >>>>Elliott - misses both,........................ is the choke.
This >>>>Horry - steps in for 17 foot jumper......is the clutch. His only freaking made shot of the game.

But Drob's the soft ...and teamates don't matter. Yeah that was just a fluke by Robert Horry...never heard from him again, did we.

[whottt]

In fact, Robinson was only swept twice in 26 series in his carreer.

.

No, he was only swept once.
The other time he was injured and didn't play in the series.

[fyatuk]

No, he was only swept once.
The other time he was injured and didn't play in the series.

the 91-92 one? I just checked and he's missed the last 14 games of the regular season that year...

He missed some playoff games in 2001-02 as well.

[whottt]

the 91-92 one? I just checked and he's missed the last 14 games of the regular season that year...

Right..and all of the playoffs.

He missed some playoff games in 2001-02 as well.

Yeap...that'd be the floating particle condition he had in his back that would leave him with no feelings in his legs and basically ended his career...he missed all of the Seattle Series and could not even get his feet off the ground in the Laker series...He announced his retirement.

But...not before ending Shaq's dynasty run the next year, being Shaq's primary defender, with that same floating particle condition...and a torn meniscus in his knee...soft indeed.

[fyatuk]

Yeap...that'd be the floating particle condition he had in his back that would leave him with no feelings in his legs and basically ended his career...

But...not before ending Shaq's dynasty run the next year, being Shaq's primary defender, with that same floating particle condition...and a torn meniscus in his knee...soft indeed.

Thanks, 91-92 was way back when for me (I started watching the Spurs the year before Robinson arrived). Have a hard time remembering that far back.

But yeah, Robinson was a warrior, just not vocal about it. No one should ever call Robinson soft.

Back problems royally suck, especially when they start messing with your legs (speaking from experience).

[baseline bum]

Right..and all of the playoffs.



Yeap...that'd be the floating particle condition he had in his back that would leave him with no feelings in his legs and basically ended his career...he missed all of the Seattle Series and could not even get his feet off the ground in the Laker series...He announced his retirement.

But...not before ending Shaq's dynasty run the next year, being Shaq's primary defender, with that same floating particle condition...and a torn meniscus in his knee...soft indeed.

I was at game 3 of that series in 2002. You wouldn't believe the ovation David got when he was introduced in the starting lineup. I seriously thought his career was over. I never expected him to come back so quickly to face Shaq when he couldn't feel his ing legs two days before. That'll always be one of my favorite moments in Spurs history, loss or not.

[bobbyjoe]

Nick Van Exel - 1998 All-Star
Eddie Jones - 1998 All-Star
Kobe Bryant - 1998 All-Star

I'm not trying to argue that David > Shaq (that's insane), but recognize Robinson's 95 cast wasn't championship level without Rodman showing up. The only cast he ever had that I would consider a le-good was the one he had in 1990 with Strickland/Anderson/Elliott (rookie)/ mings and Brickowski off the bench. The cast that was split up by Red McCombs being too cheap to pay Strick, and TC blowing out his knee.

Rodman averaged 17 rebounds a game in 32.0 minutes a game in 1995. I think any big man on this list (Shaq, Hakeem, TD, etc) would kill to have a PF who would take care of the dirty work inside and pound the glass to the tunes of 17 boards a freakin night in just 32 minutes so that they could roam defensively and wreak havoc. Rodman also made first team all-nba defense in 95.

I think Duncan, Shaq, or Hakeem give SA at least one le if they were at pivot instead of DRob in the 90s.

The Spurs post-season history with DRob as #1 option was really poor. In 91, a shocking upset to the 7 seed Warriors after winning the division.

Swept 3-0 by the Suns in 92. The pre-Barkley Suns, mind you.

93: Loss 4-2 to the Barkley Suns. This year the Suns were clearly a better team and no shame in losing to them.

94: Loss 3-1 to the Jazz. Spurs come in as the higher seed. DRob plays horribly against Malone, Spurs fold. Let's spare the supporting cast is the onl reason, because the cast was good enough for SA to have a better seed and record than Utah, who was a team REALLY weak at Center.

95: Hakeem. I won't fault the Spurs here because they did get to the WCF for the only time in the DRob era and hakeem wasn't going to beat by anyone this year.

96: Destroyed 4-2 by Utah. Again, Robinson plays poorly against a team with no C and the Spurs for the fourth time in 6 years lose in the playoffs to a team they had a better seed than.

In which of these years did David Robinson play like a champion in the playoffs? We saw Duncan in 99 and 03 just will the Spurs to victory in the postseason. He was unbelievable. Same for Hakeem in 86, 94, 95. Same for Shaq in 00,01,02 and even 95 when they were the only team from 91-98 to beat MJ in the playoffs. When did DRob ever deliver the goods like that in the playoffs? That's what separates him from these other guys. He never hit that gear.

[bobbyjoe]

Jesus, I haven't answer it? First, I'll say that I'm basing most of it off of watching them compete, to me it is obvious that Shaq was the much more dominant force. He was given more attention defensively than any other player that I've ever seen play, and it still was ineffective for the most part. Second, look at what he accomplished as far as leading his team deep into the playoffs, every year. Conference finals 9 of 14 years, Finals 6 of 14 years, and 3 rings. Look at the aftermath of what happens to the teams that Shaq leaves, including LSU, Orlando, and LA. His numbers don't accurately show his dominance, neither do Duncans. To see the influence that they truly had on the game you needed to watch the games.

A lot of people are pointing to Robinson's "terrible surounding cast," which I think a complete exageration. Although, I do admit he didn't have the surrounding cast that Shaq has had or Dream in '95, so don't act like I'm saying otherwise. For the same reason his team wasn't as successful, a lesser supporting cast, I also think that his stats were overinflated. I don't think that Shaq's stats reflect what he was to his team, although they were great stats, they were probably lesser because he had other players to rely on.

I also think that Shaq's defense is being underestimated, in his prime I think he clogged the lane better than any other center I've seen play. He kept more teams away from the basket out of sheer intimidation, it was amazingly effective. Teams settled for outside shots against the Lakers a lot during Shaq's prime, nobody wanted to take the ball at him. I'm not saying that his defense was better than Robinson or Hakeem, but there was certainally an intimidation factor that kept his oppenents out of the lane more than their was with any other center.

Disagree with that completely. Hakeem and Robinson were the 2 Centers aside from Russell who just really dominated the paint defensively in a way O'Neal never came CLOSE to doing.

O'Neal was a lazy defender for the most part who committed stupid reach in fouls instead of using his size to jump and alter/block shots. He also was very weak on pick n roll defense most of his career.

O'Neal really had trouble staying with guys like Hakeem and Robinson who were quicker. He was lucky that in his prime the C position had been flushed down the toilet so he had no one to make him work at the defensive end.

I'd say that O'Neal was easily the weakest defensive player on this thread's original list. Easily. He's #2 overall on the list behind Hakeem IMO but defensively dead last.

[NBA Junkie]

Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Tim Duncan
Hakeem Olajawon
Kevin Garnett

I'll go with Olajuwon since he owned three of those guys in key playoff match-ups. Garnett is not a true big man in the sense that you're referring to and Duncan only crossed paths with Olajuwon after "Dreams" skills were starting to erode. Also, out of all these players, Olajuwon was equal or better than the aforementioned players in overall skills.

[whottt]

Rodman averaged 17 rebounds a game in 32.0 minutes a game in 1995.

He didn't even play in every game.

Why was he traded the following offseason?

I think any big man on this list (Shaq, Hakeem, TD, etc) would kill to have a PF who would take care of the dirty work inside and pound the glass to the tunes of 17 boards a freakin night in just 32 minutes so that they could roam defensively and wreak havoc. Rodman also made first team all-nba defense in 95.

Quite an accomplishment considering he missed 35 something games.

He didn't do anything but rebound and chuck up some stupid 3 pointers in that series.

I think Duncan, Shaq, or Hakeem give SA at least one le if they were at pivot instead of DRob in the 90s.

And I think those guys with the exception of Duncan, struggle to even make the playoffs with those teams, keep in mind, Hakeem usually was only good for about 45-49 wins during the regular seasons...even when he had a former 20-10 All Star Bigman in Otis Smith.

The Spurs post-season history with DRob as #1 option was really poor. In 91, a shocking upset to the 7 seed Warriors after winning the division.

Ever looked at Drob's numbers from that series?

He wasn't the reason we lost, that was flat out his best post season series.

Swept 3-0 by the Suns in 92. The pre-Barkley Suns, mind you.

No, he injured his thumb with 3 weeks left in the season and didn't play again.

94: Loss 3-1 to the Jazz. Spurs come in as the higher seed. DRob plays horribly against Malone, Spurs fold. Let's spare the supporting cast is the onl reason, because the cast was good enough for SA to have a better seed and record than Utah, who was a team REALLY weak at Center.

Ahhh again we see David penalized for his ability to carry a crap team...

Take a look at the roster for the 94 Jazz, then look at the roster for the 94 Spurs...

That was easily the worst Spur Team David Robinson ever had.

95: Hakeem. I won't fault the Spurs here because they did get to the WCF for the only time in the DRob era and hakeem wasn't going to beat by anyone this year.

96: Destroyed 4-2 by Utah. Again, Robinson plays poorly against a team with no C and the Spurs for the fourth time in 6 years lose in the playoffs to a team they had a better seed than.

In which of these years did David Robinson play like a champion in the playoffs? We saw Duncan in 99 and 03 just will the Spurs to victory in the postseason. He was unbelievable. Same for Hakeem in 86, 94, 95. Same for Shaq in 00,01,02 and even 95 when they were the only team from 91-98 to beat MJ in the playoffs. When did DRob ever deliver the goods like that in the playoffs? That's what separates him from these other guys. He never hit that gear.

And all those teams were quite simply not that good and David's only crime was being an amazing enough player that played hard every night, to get his team in way way over their heads.

I call it John Elway syndrome...

Remember John Elway used to get his teams to the Superbowl only to get destroyed by the NFC winner?

We finally figured out that those teams were pretty crappy without John Elway and when he finally got a decent team, he started winning these Superbowls.


I mean does anyway say John Elway wasn't good enough to win before he had Terrel Davis?

Before that he was just capable of carrying bad teams further than they needed to be.

[whottt]

94 Jazz:

Name G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP REB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO
Karl Malone
Jeff Malone
John Stockton
Jeff Hornacek
Tom Chambers
Felton Spencer
Tyrone Corbin
Jay Humphries
David Benoit
Bryon Russell
Stephen Howard
Walter Bond
Chad Gallagher
John Crotty
Darren Morningstar
Luther Wright
Dave Jamerson
Aaron Williams
Sean Green




94 Spurs:

Players Name
David Robinson
Dale Ellis
Willie Anderson
Vinny Del Negro
Negele Knight
J.r. Reid
Terry mings
Antoine Carr
Lloyd Daniels
Dennis Rodman
Sleepy Floyd
Chuck Nevitt
Jack Haley
Chris Whitney


You seriously think the Spurs should have taken out the Jazz that year?

Keep in mind...that was the post season Rodman showed up late to the games because he was trying to get into Madonna's pants. Pretty sure he was supended for a game in that series and to quote head coach John Lucas(fired after that season):

With the things Rodman was pulling, we needed to be out of the playoffs.

That was David best season individually...a season better than any season by any other C on this list...

And it was followed by the worst post season performance of his career?

Why? Because you are looking at it in reverse...

It's in the playoffs when a teams deficiencies will be exposed.
Like our inability to guard bigger SF was exposed this year.

Vinny Del Negro, was the point guard on that team....

[whottt]

Let's take a look at Hakeem's post season fairings:

84-85: Lost to the lower seeded Utah Jazz first round in 5 games.

85-86: Made it to the NBA Finals, lost to the Celtics.

86-87: Lost to the lower seeded Sonics second round in 6 games.

87-88: Lost to the Dallas Mavericks in the first round 4 games.

88-89: Lost to the Supersonics in the first round 4 games.


Keep in mind Hakeem's PG for a lot of these latre 80's early 90's series was Sleepy Floyd...the back up PG on that 94 Spurs team you think should have beaten the Jazz...in his second to last season.

89-90: Lost in the first round to the Lakers in 4 games.

90-91: Swept in the first round by the Lakers.

91-92: Missed the playoffs Missed the playoffs Missed the playoffs Even with the great Avery Johnson as his point guard.

92-93: After needing 5 games to get by the Clippers, lost in the second round in 7 games.

93-94 Champions
94-95 Champions

95-96: Swept by the Sonics in the second round.

96-97: He and Drexler are joined by Charles Barkley and lose to the Jazz...

So Drob is supposed to beat the freaking Jazz with Vinny Del Negro as his Poing Guard when Hakeem can't even do it with Barkley and Drexler?

When Shaq can't even do it with the core of his 3 time champs and Eddie Jones and NVE thrown in for good measure?

97-98: Drexler, Barkley and Olajuwon lose to the Jazz in the first round.

98-99:Hakeem and Barkley are joined by Scottie Pippen and procedeed to get bounced by the Lakers in the frist round...Spurs go on to sweep that Laker team.



I mean how many times did Hakeem lose in the first round?

Exclusing the year when he failed to make the playoffs...

There was one year where he missed 20 something games and the Rockets still made the playoffs...in fact they went on the longest winning streak in team history courtesy of Kenny Smith and Mr. Mean...while he was injured.

[whottt]

I counted seven first round exits for Hakeem..

One failure to even make the playoffs, and 4 sweeps. Including a couple in the first round.


And don't even tell me the Rockets weren't attempting to surround Hakeem with talent...the Spurs were trying to do it as cheaply as possible.


Houston cut AJ, they didn't evne make the playoffs when he was there, and he was the best PG David ever had.


Elliott? He had one kidney...and the Rockets nixed an Elliott for Horry trade. He also wasn't exactly from the Horry school of clutch prior to the MDM.


Hakeem's sitting there paired up with 2 of the 50 greatest and getting swept.

[whottt]

Those 93-95 Rockets teams...had playyas. Dont even say they didn't.

Freaking Sam Cassell. And he played some big games during those le runs.

Mario Elie - Started on the Spurs 99 champion.

Robert Horry - Went on to start or be the main 6th man on 4 other NBA champions.

Clyde Drexler - One of the 50 greatest of all time. Dude got his teams to the finals before even joining the Rockets.

Big Otis Smith - All Star PF.


Earlier - Ralph Sampson
Later - Barkley and Pippen.

Drob never had anyone the caliber of those guys, even the mid career versions of those guys...and when he got someone, Duncan...he won 2 les with him.

And he made it out of the first round and got swept a of a lot less too.

[SPARKY]

whottt's right about the abyssmal supporting casts DRob had.

As for the upset by the Warriors, that was a case of the Spurs having no shooters to capitalize on the opportunities DRob created while Run TMC rendered the Spurs' interior D worthless.

Jazz? The bane of the Spurs and a few other teams in that era. Malone had a Hall of Fame point guard feeding him assists. Who was DRob's Hall of Fame teammate at that point? Of course, people want to knock DRob for not getting it done without a future Hall of Famer in TD. Well, has Shaq won without Kobe?

I'd also add a special word for the "coaching" that DRob enjoyed during his first seven seasons in the league. John Lucas and Bob Hill feature prominently. Enough said.

[whottt]

Anyone know if Bakrid is finished getting his bleeing asshole s ched up yet?

I miss him.

[baseline bum]

Rodman averaged 17 rebounds a game in 32.0 minutes a game in 1995. I think any big man on this list (Shaq, Hakeem, TD, etc) would kill to have a PF who would take care of the dirty work inside and pound the glass to the tunes of 17 boards a freakin night in just 32 minutes so that they could roam defensively and wreak havoc. Rodman also made first team all-nba defense in 95.

Why does regular-season performance mean anything for Rodman? We're judging these guys by how they performed in the playoffs, and Rodman quit on the team in '95... ie, the Rodman situation was every bit as bad as Martin this season or Vernon Maxwell in '95, only the Spurs knew they had a legit championship contender that had no chance without him. They couldn't just kick him off the team like the Nuggets and Rockets did with their cancers.

No one has ever answered me when I've asked why the Spurs couldn't get anything better than Will Perdue for Rodman if Rodman wasn't considered a huge cancer by the whole NBA. Everyone saw his act in '95 and thus his trade value was almost zero.

I can't understand bringing up the 91-92 loss to Golden State.... David averaged 26 ppg on 69% shooting with 13.5 rebounds, 3.75 blocks, and 1.5 steals per game.

Swept 3-0 by the Suns in 92. The pre-Barkley Suns, mind you.

In 91-92 he was injured and didn't play a minute of the playoffs, so does that tell you anything about the strength of his supporting cast? Seriously, David Robinson sucks because his supporting cast got swept by the pre-Barkley Suns when he couldn't play.

[bobbyjoe]

Let's take a look at Hakeem's post season fairings:

84-85: Lost to the lower seeded Utah Jazz first round in 5 games.

85-86: Made it to the NBA Finals, lost to the Celtics.

86-87: Lost to the lower seeded Sonics second round in 6 games.

87-88: Lost to the Dallas Mavericks in the first round 4 games.

88-89: Lost to the Supersonics in the first round 4 games.


Keep in mind Hakeem's PG for a lot of these latre 80's early 90's series was Sleepy Floyd...the back up PG on that 94 Spurs team you think should have beaten the Jazz...in his second to last season.

89-90: Lost in the first round to the Lakers in 4 games.

90-91: Swept in the first round by the Lakers.

91-92: Missed the playoffs Missed the playoffs Missed the playoffs Even with the great Avery Johnson as his point guard.

92-93: After needing 5 games to get by the Clippers, lost in the second round in 7 games.

93-94 Champions
94-95 Champions

95-96: Swept by the Sonics in the second round.

96-97: He and Drexler are joined by Charles Barkley and lose to the Jazz...

So Drob is supposed to beat the freaking Jazz with Vinny Del Negro as his Poing Guard when Hakeem can't even do it with Barkley and Drexler?

When Shaq can't even do it with the core of his 3 time champs and Eddie Jones and NVE thrown in for good measure?

97-98: Drexler, Barkley and Olajuwon lose to the Jazz in the first round.

98-99:Hakeem and Barkley are joined by Scottie Pippen and procedeed to get bounced by the Lakers in the frist round...Spurs go on to sweep that Laker team.



I mean how many times did Hakeem lose in the first round?

Exclusing the year when he failed to make the playoffs...

There was one year where he missed 20 something games and the Rockets still made the playoffs...in fact they went on the longest winning streak in team history courtesy of Kenny Smith and Mr. Mean...while he was injured.

So when Robinson has a great individual series against the Warriors but the team loses, it's clearly not a knock against him but when Hakeem scores 37.5 ppg and rips 16.8 boards a game and shoots 58% against the Mavs in 88 playoffs, it's an indictment against him? Or when Hakeem shoots 62% in 87 playoffs averaging nearly 30 and 11 but they lose to Seattle, it's again an indictment against him individually? Yeah, that's real consistent.

For the record, Hakeem did beat the Jazz twice in both playoff runs. The first one was without any 2nd all star on his team whereas Malone had Stockton. When Barkley came in 97-98, Hakeem and CBark were both well past their prime along with Pippen. That team was a joke with all 3 in their late 30's.

A David Robinson team never beat the Jazz in the playoffs (0-3 with neither series ever being close). If the Spurs were that awful as you claim, why did they win more games than Utah in the regular season both years? Guys like Elliott, Rodman, and AJ weren't stiffs. Rodman won 5 les without David, Elliott was an all-star and AJ was a solid 13 and 10 guy who shot a high % from the field.

Furthermore if you think Robinson's supporting casts were so awful, you can't simultaneously laud his statistical prowess in this discussion because it's a well do ented fact that stars on crap teams have padded stats.

David Robinson shot an absolutely pathetic 41% from the field in the 94 playoffs against Utah. That's on no one but him. You can't honestly tell me that had nothing to do with the loss. During the season he was at 30 ppg and over 50% shooting and come playoffs he dropped to 20.0 ppg and 41%.

He then shot 44.6% after his MVP year in 95 in the playoffs and shot 46.5% in 93 despite 6 games against the Centerless SUns.

Overall, Robinson's production in points and shooting % dropped significantly in the playoffs. This didnt happen with O'Neal, Hakeem, and Duncan. It's not as though Robinson was playing great in the playoffs and SA was still losing (ala this postseason where TD killed the Mavs and played like a beast, but it still wasn't enough). The only year you can make the argument that Robinson played like a superelite in the playoffs was against the undersized Warriors (and in the 4th Q of Game 6 in 2003 Finals).