Ukraine

[pgardn]

I've literally started a thread here led "The National Debt" long before this war began. Unsurprisingly, this is not a popular subject and sadly things have gotten worse than I could have possibly imagined (from crazy Covid stimulus spending, unpaid for tax cuts, Ukraine war etc., etc. )

Don't be fooled into thinking we can't have a strong Navy if we cut defense by many billions. The money is not being spent well to begin with. Research it and you'll be shocked.




We need to start making decisions based on the practical reality, not hope. I see no chance of Putin attacking NATO given what he's already suffered in Ukraine and how totally outmatched he'd be. Russia is going to be aggressive. We can contain it but we can't stop it all. Supporting Ukraine enough to keep it independent and mostly intact was a good goal, but we've let Zelensky strong arm us into thinking we now have to pay to reclaim all territory lost, including territory lost before the full scale war began. This is recipe for endless war and debt because Ukraine isn't going to take back all its territory by force.

Your practical reality is to give anything to the aggressor. Feed the aggressor.
He does not attack immediately. He destabilizes the political system and then hopes to take over. And this has worked ALREADY NUMEROUS times. Just because Estonia is a NATO country you don’t think he would try this? It’s already been happening!

Zelensky is a different story. The best way to make an authoritarian is to start a war. Russia has done this. Democracy goes out the window in a country under siege. This is part of the reason Ukraine will not become a NATO member immediately unless they hold clean elections after this war and get their oligarchs controlled. Which was what Zelensky ran on until Putin presented him with his own hole of survive or perish.

Putin made a very bad decision. For almost everyone except the military industry. This whole thing is also allowing authoritarian governments in the ME to play peacemakers. Very fd up.

It’s really very simple, I don’t like authoritarian tyrants. I don’t like the US or Russia producing authoritarian tyrants. Which is also why I don’t want to see Trump as president. Democracy is messy and very difficult. But its better than hater taking his weekly anal pounding from heroes like Putin, Xi, Assad, and makes like it feels good.

[z0sa]

Appeasement worked really well in 1938-39. Didn't lead to a world war at all, guys.

Imagine if the British and French had actually gameplanned around defending the Czechs and Polish, even if it was only via massive munitions shipments. France, for sure, doesn't get occupied for 4 years, at minimum.

[z0sa]

lets see:
- our roads and bridges are crumbling. and we are not doing about it
- we can't even build civilian planes that can stay in the air (boeing) we even have astronauts stranded in space because of this
- good luck trying to move massive military equipment and soldiers over the oceans if we are in full out war with China or Russia
- we cant even arm Ukraine enough to stop the Russians from advancing. they are short on s s, missiles, planes, AA, you name it

Again, these are funding problems. Funding problems disappear in a real war, where 90% or more of Congress unites should our/our allies' actual territories are attacked.

coulda/woulda/shoulda

fact is Houthis have us running on the red sea like a bunch of tamponed es.

One point for Hater. It's not a sign of a declining empire, though. It's the same concept as Vietnam, where instead of waging war, we're playing whack a mole trying to control the political situation outside of the intended targets. If we wanted to lay waste to the entire country of Yemen, we could, and I'm not talking nuclear annihilation.

Russia is not trying to dominate Central America or South Asia. Neither is China installing bases all over the world. they both are simply defending their backyards. They can do that easily forever.

?? What? China literally is installing "police stations" all over the world, especially in the countries who took massive loans from them.

that's the point Im trying to make. Our empire can't rule the world like it did till now. Time to come home and enjoy retirement. Can we easily dominate the Americas for the next few decades? sure we can. Can we go fight major wars in Europe, Middle East or South Asia? no

Europe and SE Asia (Korea, Japan, Phillippines, Australasia) we absolutely could, and would. Especially Australasia sector, Phillippines, Japan. Korea is so small, they may be destroyed fast. Japan, we'd fight to the bitter end against an occupation by another power. No question. Same with Australian-area interests, and 90% chance for the Phillippines.

and ma niga DMX7 is right. Im not even mentioning the financial disaster cliff we are at.

Any financial disaster we may be at the "cliff" of, would be 10 or 100 or 1000x worse for our enemies (and allies). They all rely on the USD, and that ain't changing.

our empire is crumbling and there's nothing we can do about it. we can either take a slow fall end enjoy while it lasts or crash and burn.

Empires do fall. USA won't last forever, but decades, bro? Not realistic. Maybe (big maybe) 150 years from now we can have this argument.

[pgardn]

Zosa excellent points.

I would like to expand on a few but I don’t have time.
ex. The Houthis.

[hater]

Called it

[velik_m]

[hater]

Called it

[ChumpDumper]

You believe Xi because he said so and you slavishly follow dictators?

Called it.

[velik_m]

Russia’s Easy-to-Reach Mineral Deposits Nearly Depleted, Minister Says

Large and easily accessible mineral deposits in Russia are nearly depleted, the head of Russia’s Natural Resources Ministry said Wednesday.

“Geologists are forced to move further and further into the Arctic and difficult-to-reach regions of the Far East and Siberia,” Natural Resources Minister Alexander Kozlov said during a meeting with President Vladimir Putin.

...

Kozlov also warned that deposits of critical minerals like uranium, chromium, manganese, anium, fluorspar, tungsten and aluminum at current mining sites, many of which were developed during the Soviet era, are projected to last only another five to 15 years.

He cautioned that the current low levels of mineral exploration could lead to a significant production decline across the industry, noting that “almost all profitable reserves in Russia are already under license.”

...

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/...er-says-a86349

Russia’s Central Bank Raises Rates to 19% as Inflation Ticks Up

Russia’s Central Bank on Friday raised its key interest rate from 18% to 19%, a widely anticipated move as the country struggles to cool down inflation amid soaring military spending for the war in Ukraine.

“Current inflationary pressures remain high. By the end of 2024, annual inflation is likely to exceed the July forecast range of 6.5–7.0%,” the bank said in a statement. “Growth in domestic demand is still significantly outstripping the capabilities to expand the supply of goods and services.”

For that reason, the bank explained, “further tightening of monetary policy is required” so that the government can reach its inflation target of 4%. While stating that inflation was likely to exceed its previous forecast for 2024, it said it still expects inflation to drop to 4-4.5% in 2025 before nearing the target rate.

Friday’s rate rise marks the seventh in over a year. Russia’s Central Bank last increased interest rates in July when it hiked the key rate from 16% to 18%.

...

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/...icks-up-a86365

[hater]

[pgardn]

Called it

Multipolar = Tyrant Dictators and Democracies

Yeah that first one makes hater get the lube out. "Do it to me!"

[pgardn]

Yeah.
Storm Shadow will be allowed to hit Russian territory.

[hater]

Kokaine is one halluva drug nigs

[velik_m]

[Ef-man]

[velik_m]

[Ef-man]

[Ef-man]

[velik_m]

[velik_m]

[DMX7]

Your practical reality is to give anything to the aggressor. Feed the aggressor.
He does not attack immediately. He destabilizes the political system and then hopes to take over. And this has worked ALREADY NUMEROUS times. Just because Estonia is a NATO country you don’t think he would try this? It’s already been happening!

Zelensky is a different story. The best way to make an authoritarian is to start a war. Russia has done this. Democracy goes out the window in a country under siege. This is part of the reason Ukraine will not become a NATO member immediately unless they hold clean elections after this war and get their oligarchs controlled. Which was what Zelensky ran on until Putin presented him with his own hole of survive or perish.

Putin made a very bad decision. For almost everyone except the military industry. This whole thing is also allowing authoritarian governments in the ME to play peacemakers. Very fd up.

It’s really very simple, I don’t like authoritarian tyrants. I don’t like the US or Russia producing authoritarian tyrants. Which is also why I don’t want to see Trump as president. Democracy is messy and very difficult. But its better than hater taking his weekly anal pounding from heroes like Putin, Xi, Assad, and makes like it feels good.

Putin wanted to replace the Ukrainian government with puppets and we've stopped that. Putin is not getting everything he wants. He's paying a huge price for all his incremental gains now. He was paying no price before, like with Georgia. But the practical reality is Ukraine can't take back all its territory by force, so this war needs to end soon (probably with concessions) or both Ukraine and we will be much worse off.

[ChumpDumper]

Give Putin things he wants and time to rearm. What could possibly go wrong?

[DMX7]

OK.Tell us your definition of the full scale war you claim the US is now fighting.

Ukraine (and a small number of Americans and others) are fighting the war but we're obviously paying for it.

Fantastic. Let's let Ukraine kill a lot more.

You're welcome to. I just don't want to pay for it for years more.

[DMX7]

I don't think Ukraine can drive Russia out of Ukraine but I want to spend whatever it takes to do what I think can't be done.

[pgardn]

Putin wanted to replace the Ukrainian government with puppets and we've stopped that. Putin is not getting everything he wants. He's paying a huge price for all his incremental gains now. He was paying no price before, like with Georgia. But the practical reality is Ukraine can't take back all its territory by force, so this war needs to end soon (probably with concessions) or both Ukraine and we will be much worse off.

Fair point.

But where the borders are drawn is horribly difficult. Kursk right now? do what? Its a bargaining chip.

And honestly people do not get how Putin was able to get aggressive. We (the US) have done the same thing in the past. Destabilize a country via elections, misinformation, people who want power within that country, get rid of the free press, etc.. Russia is doing some of this right now in Estonia. Then pretend like the government asks Russia for help because its destabilized. Then enter militarily. This is how its done. Putin is doing exactly this as I type.
So saying Putin and Russia have had enough is just not true in OTHER places.

And then Ukraine will have to be rebuilt. How does that go? Can Russia cause problems internally within Ukraine and then pretend at a later date Ukrainian leaders ask for Russia to intervene? Of course Russia with or without Putin can still accomplish this. This is also what worries me about Trump and his cult. "Dont worry good Christians, after I win you wont need to worry about voting again" wtf? seriously wtf?

If you have any feeling on what it is like to live under tyrannical authoritarian rule... Russia has already caused Ukraine to become less democratic. Zelensky was voted in. Now under war conditions, he is forced to be much more authoritarian. The war is within Ukraine. Putin actually may have turned Ukraine authoritarian just by starting this , only the Ukrainian's without the freedom we have, will hate Russia quite possibly. This would sUck big time imo as well. And could also happen.