Trouble in Crawford: "Why did my son die?"

[Dos]

ahh yes.. does the left really thinking we are fighting a army? We are fighting cowards that wear any uniform of military service, they hide among women and children, they could care less who they blow up in the process as long as allah is happy, thats the problem... I guess the left would have us round up all the iraqi's and screen them one by one for bombs or signs of insurgency... thing is it ain't going to happen... the same crowd that was clamoring for bush 41 to get the job done after the first gulf war is now the same crowd that is saying bring our troops home now... increasing troop strength now only adds more targets for the insurgency.. besides it's the generals on the ground making the decision about troop strength.. bring them home now and the whole region is destablizied.. like hillary, bill and kerry said we can't cut and run we have to finish the job...

[JoeChalupa]

Uh, just so you know. It is not only the "left" that are questioning the war in Iraq.

Even some republicans are saying it.

August 22, 2005
Sen. Hagel Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 9:56 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A leading Republican senator and prospective presidential candidate said Sunday that the war in Iraq has destabilized the Middle East and is looking more like the Vietnam conflict from a generation ago.

Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, reiterated his position that the United States needs to develop a strategy to leave Iraq. Hagel scoffed at the idea that U.S. troops could be in Iraq four years from now at levels above 100,000, a contingency for which the Pentagon is preparing.

''We should start figuring out how we get out of there,'' Hagel said on ''This Week'' on ABC. ''But with this understanding, we cannot leave a vacuum that further destabilizes the Middle East. I think our involvement there has destabilized the Middle East. And the longer we stay there, I think the further destabilization will occur.''

Hagel said ''stay the course'' is not a policy. ''By any standard, when you analyze 2 1/2 years in Iraq ... we're not winning,'' he said.

[Clandestino]

hagel... there is a strategy to get out of iraq. everyone would love for the iraqis to be able to take care of themselves, but they can't. just like the kosovars, we are still there. you guys need to stop forgetting that. in fact 1400 texas natl guardsmen men just left for a rotation.

[JoeChalupa]

Just saying..it ain't only the left.


Oh...and Zell Miller!!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm tired of people like you who think our President is so far above and beyond dealing with the general public.

We live in a representative democracy, hence we are not en led to first-person access.

Bush needs to make himself more human and allow the public to see that as a human he does the best he can to lead us in these times. He hasn't done this.

You mean like telling the Secret Service to piss off when they didn't want him going to NYC after 9/11, when he stood in the rubble with the firefighters who had lost their friends, family, and buddies?

You mean like flying into Baghdad International Airport and having a Christmas day meal with the troops, knowing there was a fairly decent chance of AF1 being hit by a Stinger?

Yeah, brilliant insight, the guy should get out more.

Bush is by no means perfect, as a student of history and Islam I think he's either made some mistakes or gotten bad advice here and there, but just pulling out of Iraq isn't going to solve jack .

Clandestino brings up a good point, we're still in Kosovo (Clinton's "war") how many years later, no one's ing about that.

And no, it's not changing the topic. It's called context, try using some.

[Spurminator]

I sit somewhere between the two of you.

I do think Bush is very poor at communicating objectives and explaining the reasoning behind most of his actions. He prefers simple (vague) explanations about almost everything. This "Simple Man" approach appeals to a lot of people, but it turns off a great many as well. I would prefer someone who spoke in simple terms, but was better able to define his goals and answer tough questions. As much as his policies are debated, you very rarely see any of Bush's supporters quoting the man himself while arguing for one of his initiatives.

That said, I wouldn't go as far as to say he "should" meet with his detractors. If he did, that would be great... bonus points in my book... but that's all it is, just bonus. It goes above and beyond what he should be expected to do, though it's not out of the question to want it.

[jochhejaam]

I stand corrected and good point. The question really is. Is it worth it to ignore this women or is more gained by sympathizing with here and dealing one on one? I feel more is gained than lost by letting go of 1 hour if his vacation.

How many moderate dems do you see out there voicing support for Cindy?
Even they're staying away from the anti-war/hate-Bush theme coming out of the Cindy camp.


Any meeting with Cindy is a meeting with the lunatic left and Bush has zero to gain by meeting with them. It's the "Michael Moore Show" Ryan and Bush ain't goin'!

[j-6]

It's not an excuse. I'm tired of people like you whining that he should meet with her.

I guess the one thing I don't understand about this is why he's ducking her. She's right there! Just go send some blue suit out the front gate to grab her and have a conversation. Or pick her up in the limo on your way home from Salt Lake. , I don't know.

I see the point that he already dealt with her once. But when there's a screaming baby in the room, you either give it attention until it hushes or sit through the screaming until it finally goes to sleep.

Regardless of the reasons of why he isn't doing meeting with her, Cindy is making the president look like either a coward or an an asshole. And that 36% approval rating could use all the help it can get (link)

I'm no Bush supporter, but it's sad that our president now has the 3rd lowest public approval rating in the last sixty years, ahead of Nixon's 24% and Carter's 34%. The GOP backers here can say that they don't give a what his rating is, and the Demo's can harp about that more people than ever can see some sort of truth. I just think it's sad (I can't find another word that fits) that basically 2 out of 3 people doesn't approve of the job he's doing, for whatever reasons.

[jochhejaam]

I just think it's sad (I can't find another word that fits) that basically 2 out of 3 people doesn't approve of the job he's doing, for whatever reasons.

Did you intentionally misrepresent his approval rating or are you just not good with percentages? You would have been closer if you had rounded it out to 1 out of 2 also known as Half.

Monday, August 8, 2005; CNN Posted: 7:25 p.m. EDT (23:25 GMT)
President Bush's slumping approval ratings seemed directly tied to the war in Iraq.
President Bush's approval rating remains among the lowest of his presidency, with some Americans growing increasingly dissatisfied with the Iraq war, according to a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll released Monday.

Forty-five percent of those polled said they approve of Bush's handling of his job, compared with 51 percent who said they are dissatisfied.

[j-6]

Did you intentionally misrepresent his approval rating or are you just not good with percentages? You would have been closer if you had rounded it out to 1 out of 2 also known as Half.

Monday, August 8, 2005; CNN Posted: 7:25 p.m. EDT (23:25 GMT)
President Bush's slumping approval ratings seemed directly tied to the war in Iraq.
President Bush's approval rating remains among the lowest of his presidency, with some Americans growing increasingly dissatisfied with the Iraq war, according to a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll released Monday.

Forty-five percent of those polled said they approve of Bush's handling of his job, compared with 51 percent who said they are dissatisfied.

There's a link right next to my statement. Here it is again so you don't have to look for it.

http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1124730011.shtml

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I do think Bush is very poor at communicating objectives and explaining the reasoning behind most of his actions.

History will show that going into Iraq was a great move. Why? Because all the dum Islamoterrorists are going there to take on our heavily armed military and getting their express ticket to their 72 virgins, instead of waiting for them to come across our borders and pick off unarmed civilians.

But of course Bush can't come out and say that, too many on the left wouldn't get it and you don't unzip your fly WRT your opponents when you're in a war for survival (and yes, history will also show this showdown between the West and militant Islam to be one of survival).

I guess the one thing I don't understand about this is why he's ducking her. She's right there! Just go send some blue suit out the front gate to grab her and have a conversation.

Because she's a left wing nut job, that's why. Like I said, Bush could talk to that stupid for the rest of his and her lives, and she'd still be spewing the hate that she is today.

I mean, this woman called Bush the world's worst terrorist. Think about that. When you say like that, you forfeit your right to any legitimate civilized conversation with anyone, let alone the president of the United ing States of America.

[j-6]

Because she's a left wing nut job, that's why. Like I said, Bush could talk to that stupid for the rest of his and her lives, and she'd still be spewing the hate that she is today.

I mean, this woman called Bush the world's worst terrorist. Think about that. When you say like that, you forfeit your right to any legitimate civilized conversation with anyone, let alone the president of the United ing States of America.

Fair enough. Thanks for the answer. But keep in mind that Sheehan's approval rating is at the same 36% as the president, with a much lower disapproval rating (38% v. 58%, or 51% according to the post above quoted from CNN).

You might think she's a whack-job. That's fine, I'm watching this fight from the sidelines, and she does spout off a lot of crap like the tax thing and Bush being a terrorist. But a of a lot of people not named Bush are paying attention to her.

Just something to keep in mind.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But a of a lot of people not named Bush are paying attention to her.

That's because there's no other pretty white girls missing on tropical islands, earthquakes in Cali, tsunamis in the Indian Ocean, bombings in London, etc.

The news is slow right now, hence she is somewhere besides the last 2 minutes of the broadcast.

[Trainwreck2100]

That's because there's no other pretty white girls missing on tropical islands, earthquakes in Cali, tsunamis in the Indian Ocean, bombings in London, etc.

The news is slow right now, hence she is somewhere besides the last 2 minutes of the broadcast.

That pretty white girl is still missing, everyone just got bored because they know she's dead

[whottt]

These are kids that enlisted in the service. Yeah it is volunteer, but had they known what kind of quagmire they were getting into, 50% of them would never have enlisted.

They ing know they could get called into a war at any ing time.

It is NOT volunteer to go to Iraq...Big difference there pal.

You put your name on the line the US Govt owns your ass and you VOLUNTEER to go whereever they tell you.

That's it....that's all there is too it...if you aren't willing to fight for this country and enforce the edicts of the US government...then don't join.

You STFU you stupid piece of crap, you ing big man hiding behind a computer, sitting on your big fat white ass who is so easy to allow our young people go and die for NOTHING but big business.

Yeah? And if you want to go suck terrorist and support them killing US soldiers then get the over there and fight those soldiers like a man rather than stabbing them in the back over here in the US.

Do you think the terrorists go "Oh , they're protesting the war in America, what ever will we do now?"

ing morons.

No...they say...hold on a little bit longer till the US govt caves to political pressure....then we can claim victory and get a few more people to follow us....

You go enlist and fight if you are so quick to allow others to do so.

No, you are a pussy a pussy who lets others fight for you.

You don't know about my situation.

"commie ass"?? What a total loser you are to use that term to describe people that have a brain and speak out against the wrongs in the world.


The Soviets were involved with Iran because they are on their Southern border, you freaking numnuts and they needed access to the Gulf...it made perfect sense, you freaking moron.

Yeah the Soviets weren't motivated by Oil at all...which is why they owned half of that ing Oil company you talked about earlier....and occupied Iranian soil for 20 ing years..

[whottt]

"The GRU and KGB helped fund just about every antiwar movement and organization in America and abroad... What will be a great surprise to the American people is that GRU and KGB had a larger budget for antiwar propaganda in the United States than it did for economic and military support to the Vietnamese." - Russian defector Staanislov Lunev in 'Through the Eyes of the Enemy'(page 78).

The term "useful idiots" has been attributed to Lenin, as a description of those mindless people in the Western democracies who would always find ways to excuse whatever the Soviet Union did.

Quote Usama Bin Laden:

I ask the American people to force their government to give up anti-Muslim policies. The American people had risen against their government's war in Vietnam. They must do the same today.

Go libs go....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn some people need to go take some world history classes.

The last war the US lost was Vietnam. The last war that Osama's crew won was against Russia in Afghanistan.

What did both wars have in common? "Bleed them until public sentiment brings them back home."

Osama's running the same playbook today, and it looks like quite a few are falling for the same sucker play.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

With that being true. It still doesn't take away from the fact that if he would have talked to her she would have been well on her way out of there.

For the 84,293rd time, talking her would have solved nothing and would have given her more political capital.

He could have said "I'm sorry" 1000 times to her, and she would have just sauntered out and said "he said he was sorry, but I could tell he didn't mean it", and then the media would be creaming themselves all over it.

[Jelly]

For the 84,293rd time, talking her would have solved nothing and would have given her more political capital.

He could have said "I'm sorry" 1000 times to her, and she would have just sauntered out and said "he said he was sorry, but I could tell he didn't mean it", and then the media would be creaming themselves all over it.

No. She would have come out and said "he acted like it was a pep rally. He was so upbeat and didn't even know Casey's name. He wouldn't even look at his picture". Other families that were at that first meeting with Bush have said this was a total mischaractization of the presidents demeanor.

She actually already asked the "Why did my son die" question and he said "because I believe everyone deserves to live in freedom". So she got an answer, she just doesn't like it or agree with it.
Still, it would have been wise for the president to have defused this situation earlier and met with her. Then what could she complain about, that the President of the United States only met with her twice?

[sbsquared]

I can't remember who was interviewing Cindy, but I heard the clip on the Laura Ingraham show last week - anyway, the man said to Cindy "if the President comes out and talks to you now, it would kind of stop all this momentum." Cindy replied, "yes, it would really stop all this momentum we've got going, so I hope he doesn't come out and talk to me." She also said that she hoped that the Bush Administration hadn't thought of that.

So, does she really want to talk to the President? Or does she just want to extend her 15 minutes of fame and continue spewing her hatred?

[whottt]

Um...the President of the Unites States of America is not an errand boy.

She doesn't dictate anything to the Pres...no matter how much the radical left that is using her may want it...

It's not working by the way...this isn't the 60's anymore and the anti-war movement isn't convincing anyone of anything but themselves....incestous propaganda does not a growing movement make.

[Clandestino]

Damn some people need to go take some world history classes.

The last war the US lost was Vietnam. The last war that Osama's crew won was against Russia in Afghanistan.

What did both wars have in common? "Bleed them until public sentiment brings them back home."

Osama's running the same playbook today, and it looks like quite a few are falling for the same sucker play.

vietnam had russia and china backing them.

afghanistan had us backing them...

[Nbadan]

Apparently, its only BAD for liberals and Cindy Sheehan to 'allegedly' use the troops to push a purely political agenda...

Speaking in Idaho a few minutes ago, Bush argued that moms like Cindy Sheehan are a threat to freedom:

There are few things more difficult in life than seeing a loved one go off to war, and here in Idaho, a mom named Tammy Pruitt…knows that feeling six times over.

Tammy has four sons serving in Iraq right now with the Idaho National Guard — Eric, Evan, Greg, and Jeff. Last year, her husband Leon and another son Aaron returned from Iraq where they helped train Iraqi firefighters in Mosul.

Tammy says this — and I want you to hear this — “I know that if something happens to one of the boys, they would leave this world doing what they believe, what they think is right for our country. And I guess you couldn’t ask for a better way of life than giving it for something you believe in.”

America lives in freedom because of families like the Pruitts.

Think Progress

[mookie2001]

Oh STFU with that stupid ass "aiding and abetting" crap you neocons love to spew. It is every American's right to speak out and nowhere in the cons ution does it say any American has to blindly be behind Dubya.

Get your head out of his ass and see the real world.

And the right is only "American" when they have a republican in office.
You were very un-American during the Clinton years just like 99.9% of conservatives are.

^OWNED
i remember those times
Rush Limbaugh was the most unamerican bas alive

[whottt]

Commies can't own anything.

[Nbadan]

From this point forward the W administration shall hence forth be known as the shill administration. So far we've had shill reporters - Gannon/Yonivore and Novak, and shill cabinet members - almost every cabinet member, but especially the hispanic ones, and now the Republican Party bring you a new shill to gawk at and wonder, why? Shill protestors.

Republican Shills

Move America Forward ( the Hate crowd ) was outed today by Keith Olbermann as having been launched by a Sacramento P.R. firm which has strong ties to the Republican party. Later in the segment Dana Milbank said that they were part of the Orin Hatch for President campaign. lol That's grassroots for you. This diary at Kos was the first one that I found which uncovered the scam.

The Swift boating of Cindy is led by Sal Russo and Mr. Puke himself Mark Williams. These people are bottom feeding s suckers of the lowest kind. Their Creepy Caravan is nothing more than Republican operatives trying to combat a powerful message by Sheehan in the only way they know how to respond. S-M-E-A-R. Here's much more information about MAF's antics from the Center for Media and Democracy.

Crooks and Liars