God did not create the universe, says Hawking

[MannyIsGod]

Martyr? Really Manny?

If anything, just look at the barrage of replies I have to produce in response to the heavy opposition created by my stance… I also have to ignore all the one-liner troll-like jabs that are interspersed amongst the sparsely located questions of legitimate worth…

Feeling outnumbered is not imagined, it is the reality of such apologetic discussions…

But of course, you wouldn’t be able to notice the obvious incongruity of your snicker from your lofty perch.

Contempt from you in these matters is expected.

How do you sleep at night with the horrors you witness?

[MannyIsGod]

See… this is why I don’t address your posts redzero… you go around making such claims without an understanding of what the Christian label represents… not everyone who slaps that label on themselves is a Christian...

Hitler was most definitely NOT a Christian…

Question… Which of these were Christians?
A. Mother Teresa
B. Billy Graham
C. Hitler

Me: Based on their lives, both A & B…
redzero: Based on my stubbornness to win meaningless internet arguments, Hitler...

WTH???

“16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven...”

- Matthew 7:16-21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[MannyIsGod]

My point stands... (ongoing for years)

The question of origins is plainly a matter of science history—not the domain of applied science... Contrary to the unilateral denials of many unbelievers, one’s worldview does indeed play heavily on one’s interpretation of scientific data, a phenomenon that is magnified in matters concerning origins, where neither repeatability, nor observation, nor measurement—the three immutable elements of the scientific method—may be employed...

Hence, when I see people hinging their disbelief in GOD solely on their interpretation of their infallible bastion of "science"... they're not really doing that on proper terms... So while many proponents of evolution and naturalistic cosmic orgin persist in claiming exclusive “scientific” status for their popularized beliefs and heap out-of-hand dismissal and derision upon all doubters... They are doing so without understanding the limits of the scientific toolset.

Burden of proof. That is all.

No principle of science requires you to observe, measure, nor repeat that something does not exist.

Science may not be able to explain how everything started but neither can Christianity unless I missed the part of the bible that talks about how God was created.

[Phenomanul]

Bull .

Now you say that my arguments don't matter because I don't believe (and therefore understand) God.

Weak ad hominem.

Really?

GOD allows slavery... therefore GOD is evil...

ummm... no.

The context of human servitude in the Hebrew culture is not what they endured under the Egyptians, the Babylonians or the Persians... it was more of a renumeration system of last recourse....

The ad hominem is your unwillingness to accept that...

GOD created marriage between one man and one woman... but people like David and Solomon had many wives... therefore GOD condones polygamy...

ummm... no.

Man sought out multiple wives out of greed and it destroyed him... GOD allowed this to play out (our choices after all) so that the lesson would be learned by future generations...

GOD allowed murder... therefore GOD is evil...

ummm... no.

GOD is HOLY and JUST.... all sin has to be dealt with punishment... since the only punishment is death we should all be dead... instead he sent His Son, JESUS to die for us so that we wouldn't have to... the New Covenant was ushered and we live under GOD's gift of grace...

But yeah go ahead and keep drawing conclusions about GOD's nature... pervert the context all you want...

[cool cat]

I want you to summarize it because I'm not reading all that.

Your the physics/chemistry double major not me. I barley understand it. Your asking questions which don't have a quick answer. I'm trying to give you legit scientific answers but seeing how you are not interested makes me think you are just trolling so I guess it's best to move on.

[Phenomanul]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Does repeating baseline bum's observation make Hitler any more a Christian?

Thought so.

[MannyIsGod]

Sounds like the No True Scotsman fallacy... the same one conservatives liked to use when distancing themselves from Bush after his 8-year trainwreck.

God damn it.

[admiralsnackbar]

Understanding GOD's nature is revealed by the Scriptures.

Why is everything you've singled out thus some random attack on the intent of my phrasing..?

I'm simply stating that you one can't venture to state they understand GOD while not believing in Him. This in context to all the different incongruencies redzero keeps attributing to GOD despite the fact that he doesn't even believe in Him...

I criticized your phrasing what? twice? in I don't know how many posts now? One was for s, but inthe case of this last one, the greater point I was trying to make is that you don't understand God any better than an atheist who has read the Bible. We both believe in God, but we've come to know Him the same way anybody else would: through interpreting the Book. Are we so different from anybody else who reads it?

If you want to say that you have a steadier bead on God's nature thanks to grace guiding your interpretation, I'm no one to argue the point with you, but I personally would never presume to say as much.

[Blake]

Does it matter if he gives over 90% of his annual 'income' away...???

How many tangential red herrings do you have in your lunch box anyways???

It's not a red herring. Jesus said if you want perfection, give all you have and then follow him. It's in the Bible.

And it's also a faulty assumption on your part that Hitler isn't in Heaven.

If he was a professed Christian, he probably knew the rules to get in and repented of his sins at the last second. It was a win-win for him.

[Phenomanul]

How do you sleep at night with the horrors you witness?

How far from your perch must I be to avoid your sneering one-liners?

[redzero]

GOD allows slavery... therefore GOD is evil...

Hold on, an all loving God will allow slavery/indentured servitude? What?

The context of human servitude to the Hebrew culture is not what they endured under the Egyptians, the Babylonians or the Persians...

Which is completely irrelevant. God allows human beings to sell their daughters into slavery and beat slaves. Is that not immoral?

The ad hominem is your unwillingness to accept that...

Actually, no. Every time I post this, Christians say "It wasn't the same slavery" and ignore how indentured servitude is immoral to begin with.

GOD created marriage between one man and one woman... but people like David and Solomon had many wives... therefore GOD condones polygamy...

Did God give polygamy guidelines like he did with slavery?

Man sought out multiple wives out of greed and it destroyed him... GOD allowed this to play out (our choices after all) so that the lesson would be learned by future generations...

God didn't give guidelines on polygamy.

GOD allowed murder... therefore GOD is evil...

Didn't say that.

And I love how you keep ignoring what's in the Bible.

God says that is all right for a person to beat there slave to death, but he's not okay with slavery, right?

Sure.

Do you expect me to believe that God said, "You can do this, this, this, and this to slaves, but I am against it."

[MannyIsGod]

Does repeating baseline bum's observation make Hitler any more a Christian?

Thought so.

Does repeating he's not a Christian make him any less of a Christian? Didn't think so. You know not what was in Hitler's heart as he passed away, I think calling him a non Christian is fairly unChristian of you.

[MannyIsGod]

How far from your perch must I be to avoid your sneering one-liners?

Ask your God to protect you from them, imo.

[Phenomanul]

It's not a red herring. Jesus said if you want perfection, give all you have and then follow him. It's in the Bible.

And it's also a faulty assumption on your part that Hitler isn't in Heaven.

If he was a professed Christian, he probably knew the rules to get in and repented of his sins at the last second. It was a win-win for him.

Are you suggesting we can fool GOD?

Like I said, your feeble attempts at portraying GOD are too simplistic.

[Blake]

I don't need to deal with more than my share of trolls... I already have one that's been following me around for years...

Are you scared I'm going to get you?

[redzero]

Your the physics/chemistry double major not me.

I don't have to be a physics/chemistry double major to know that making squared circles is impossible and that causation is time based.

Contradictions are obvious to anyone who isn't in denial.

I barley understand it.

So you are quoting it without knowing what it means?

Your asking questions which don't have a quick answer.

And yet you choose to believe without knowing the answer.

I'm trying to give you legit scientific answers

How is it a legitimate scientific answer? That's one interpretation by one guy that hasn't been peer reviewed or scrutinized at all.

but seeing how you are not interested makes me think you are just trolling so I guess it's best to move on.

Maybe if you call me a troll more, you won't actually have to back up what you are saying.

[Phenomanul]

Ask your God to protect you from them, imo.

You pose no threat whatsover to my health... that won't be necessary.

[redzero]

So, since no Christian bothered addressing the slavery/indentured servitude matter, I will assume that all Christians support it and find it perfectly acceptable to beat slaves to death because they are property.

[Blake]

Ok then...

Blake's disbelief in Supernatural creation is based on ________?

Phenomanul's poor assumptions are based on __________?

[MannyIsGod]

You pose no threat whatsover to my health... that won't be necessary.

Oh I don't know, judging from this thread your mental health is suffering quite a bit. I don't think thats my doing, however, so I guess you're right.

[Blake]

Your snickering at ude is what makes you a troll... see, you've already overstepped the bounds of your comprehension... you assume I can't answer your posts...

There are dead end arguments I'm not going to venture into. By my choice. Who said you get to choose the terms of my responses anyways? Laughable.

textbook.

[MannyIsGod]

Must be nice to understand God so well because apparently no one else in this thread does. Phenomanul has a lot in common with BigZak.

[redzero]

Must be nice to understand God so well because apparently no one else in this thread does. Phenomanul has a lot in common with BigZak.

I guess a load of people are going to then.

[Phenomanul]

Does repeating he's not a Christian make him any less of a Christian? Didn't think so. You know not what was in Hitler's heart as he passed away, I think calling him a non Christian is fairly unChristian of you.

Really? When did non-believers develop the spiritual discernment to understand our way of life?

"by their fruit you shall know them..."

while your scenario is possible, it's not very plausible... had Hitler genuinely repented of his actions he would have surrendered to the allied forces to face justice... besidesredzero's implied assertion was that Hitler commited his attrocities under the Christian banner. Which is most definitely not the case... Your smarter than this Manny...

[Phenomanul]

textbook.

stalker.