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Funny how perspective skews history....all of a sudden Drob is leading a high school team to the WCF, and everybody Shaq has ever played with is a future Hall Of Famer.
One shot (a good one at that)....
Does not surpass the same sort of heroics that the Lakers received out of Horry and Fisher.
Is Shaq considered a clutch player??? The thought is completely laughable. Duncan on the other hand has hit his share of Game winners. DRob had 3 or 4 game winners throughout his career but none during the playoffs... again due to the perfected strategy of forcing everyone else but Robinson to beat you.
Funny how perspective skews history....all of a sudden Drob is leading a high school team to the WCF, and everybody Shaq has ever played with is a future Hall Of Famer.
He took a team from the Naval Academy to the Great 8...
and everybody Shaq has ever played with is a future Hall Of Famer.
Shaq has played with an All NBA guard every single year of his career but one...
I mean Penny, Kobe, Wade...
Do you think Vinny or AJ are their caliber?
His first Laker Teams were the ing All Star Team just about...
And he got swept and got his ass kicked worse by the Jazz than Drob did.
And btw...the perspective has always been skewed.
It starts with the fact that the Spurs were not National TV much and the only thing people judge by is some series VS the Rockets and Jazz...
And it ends with the fact that Drob wasn't black enough for the black leadership of the NBA.
The teams he took to the playoffs and his incomparable versatility speak for themselves...
DRob is a constant victim of lies and distortion...
Like Shaq saying he idolized Drob until Drob turned him down for an autograph in highshool...
When Drob wasn't even in the NBA when Shaq was in highschool.
And any idiot would know that the DRob does NOT have the same deep team at his disposal with AJ as his starting point guard, Del Negro as his starting SG (sometimes PG), Elliott as his SF, and an insane Rodman as his PF. In fact, some of those Spurs teams were so bad, Lloyd Daniels was supposed to be the saviour, and Negele Knight started for them a few times.
So Bird not having a low post game is not because he was lazy, but when Robinson doesn't have one, it's because he's lazy. And we are talking about the same Robinson who continued to work on his game year in and year out and kept his body in tip top condition, the same Robinson who defended Shaq 1 on 1 with a floating particle in his back, and the same Robinson who worked tirelessly on his ball-handling and defense, as well as added a semi-hook to his repetoire is lazy, while Shaq, who routinely misses chunks of the season because of his "company time' philosophy, who runs in every season out of shape and had to work his game through the season is not just because he has a post game.
Whether you have a post game or not is not because of how often you worked on it, just like Shaq will never be a good FT shooter because he doesn't have that touch. It has nothing to do with laziness, and coming out with personal attacks on the integrity of Robinson does not excuse you from your stupidity in stating how all big men having low post games will win them rings regardless of their supporting cast.
Dirk
Is that supposed to be an excuse? If he doesn't have a deep team then he's going to have to be that much better to get his team over. Did Tim Duncan have a deep team in '03? No. Did Duncan have a deep team in '05? No.
Did you miss the part where I said " , even Bird had a post game...wasn't as prolific as Mchale's but he had one nonetheless...." ?So Bird not having a low post game is not because he was lazy, but when Robinson doesn't have one, it's because he's lazy.
Yeah, Shaq got a bit lazy after he won a le but up until he won a le he worked on his game all the time. Improved his passing skills, improved his footwork and had an array of moves around the basket to coincide with his prime. Shaq could have stayed a dunking machine collecting stats in the regular season but he didn't.And we are talking about the same Robinson who continued to work on his game year in and year out and kept his body in tip top condition, the same Robinson who defended Shaq 1 on 1 with a floating particle in his back, and the same Robinson who worked tirelessly on his ball-handling and defense, as well as added a semi-hook to his repetoire is lazy, while Shaq, who routinely misses chunks of the season because of his "company time' philosophy, who runs in every season out of shape and had to work his game through the season is not just because he has a post game.
Bull lol. That's the dumbest thing I've ever read here. Tell that to Hakeem or Mchale and they'll laugh in your face. If you want to improve any aspect of your game you have to work on it tirelessly. You think Tony Parker's broke jumper got fixed all by itself?Whether you have a post game or not is not because of how often you worked on itHe worked on it constantly in the off-season. You're telling me David Robinson couldn't have spent a couple of summers at Pete Newell's big man camp improving his footwork? Learning some back-to-the-basket moves? Anything?!?
That was no personal attack on Robinson. It was the truth. In all his career his low post game was below average at best and I didn't see him taking any strides to make it better.just like Shaq will never be a good FT shooter because he doesn't have that touch. It has nothing to do with laziness, and coming out with personal attacks on the integrity of Robinson does not excuse you from your stupidity in stating how all big men having low post games will win them rings regardless of their supporting cast.
And I didn't say all big men with low post games WILL win rings. I'm saying all big men with dominant low post games HAVE won rings. Get it straight. Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem all have won with supporting casts (Shaq 2000, Duncan '03, Hakeem '94) that no one gave a about. So forgive me if I don't cry for David Robinson and his "lack of" supporting cast.
Shaq didn't have a supporting cast in 2000? Um, WTF? Glen Rice? Kobe Bryant? Robert Horry? Ron Harper? Oh yeah, Shaq carried the Lakers to that game 7 win against Portland with his 9 total shots. Before his 3 point shooters started hitting in the fourth, all Costas and Collins could talk about was how much of a no-show Shaq was again in what looked like the latest in a string of disappearing acts in elimination games. Shaw, Bryant, and Rice are the ones who brought LA back into that game.
Kobe Bryant singlehandedly beat the Pacers in OT in game 4 of the Finals after Shaq fouled out, so don't give me this no supporting cast garbage.
Do you think for a second that Pop wouldn't have traded ty Vinny Del Negro to get 2000 Ron Harper on his last legs? That's basically what he did in 98 when he didn't even offer him a contract to pick up Mario Elie after the Rockets assumed he was done.
Last edited by baseline bum; 03-13-2007 at 04:21 PM.
Damn...that's some good stuff there base. Well done.
Nice showing that Duncan > Robinson, I have no problem with that, even though that weak supporting cast that Duncan had at least have a supporting cast that was built based on an inside out offense (Kerr, Jackson, Ginobili), vs. no one.
Problem is Duncan is not a centre.
And what was Robinson supposed to do? Shoot 3pters because he got crappy guards? Oh wait, he did. what about lead his team in assists? He did as well, lead the league in blocks, rebounds and blocks not enough for you? How about winning MVP and DPoY? Oh no, he has to work harder, and do things nobody could have done, because we all know Bill Russell won 11 rings in 13 years because of his awesome ability to excel with a so-so supporting cast by using his low-post scoring game.
No I didn't, and that is pure bull . Bird does not have a better post up game than DRob. How else would you explain Bird never having more than 500 FTA a season, where DRob routinely had 800 FTA in a season during his prime? Where did Robinson got his FTs from? Jumpshots?
Show me the evidence, because Shaq stayed pretty consistent in his FTA, FG% and PPG throughout his career. And Robinson didn't work on his passing? He saw his Ast/TO ratio improving during his prime, and led his team in assists for a season, that really tells you how awesome his PG is btw.
And Robinson didn't work on his game or kept himself in shape? How do you figure? Were you with him during the summer? Did you read reports about him sitting on his ass all summer?Bull lol. That's the dumbest thing I've ever read here. Tell that to Hakeem or Mchale and they'll laugh in your face. If you want to improve any aspect of your game you have to work on it tirelessly. You think Tony Parker's broke jumper got fixed all by itself?
Do some research before you go out and embarrass yourself.
http://www.shepherd.edu/2ramsweb/MBBBIGMAN2004.html
Oh my goodness, you didn't see evidence = truth? Hot diggidy damn, why do we need any professionals, let's just all go ask hitmanyr2k!
Barkley anyone? From a guy who was routinely ousted in the 1st round, to MVP and a trip to the finals, guess what was different? No, it wasn't his low post game, it was because he got Kevin Johnson, Dan Marjele instead of nobody..
As for you assinine comment about Shaq 2000? It was already covered.
Fact is, Shaq didn't suddenly become better in 2000, it's because he's got a better coach and a team that was built around his strengths.
Let's also bear in mind that, in Finals play, Shaq has dominated all-world centers like Rik Smits, Todd Macculloch, and Desagana Diop. In 2001 he did beat Dikembe Mutombo, that's pretty good.
Olajuwon went through Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq in 1994 and 1995. That's another reason Olajuwon is third on my list and Shaq is fourth.
Glen Rice, Kobe, Horry, and Harper all had the same thing in common....inconsistency. These guys showed up every now and then. Shaq was constant 90% of the time. Shaq started that run against the Blazers in Game 7. He had been doubled and tripled the entire game and didn't force the issue. In the 4th qtr he forced the issue and scored half his points down the stretch and assisted on those baskets.
Oooooh...one OT lol. That's just about ALL Kobe did the entire Finals. How did he follow up his Game 4 performance?Kobe Bryant singlehandedly beat the Pacers in OT in game 4 of the Finals after Shaq fouled out, so don't give me this no supporting cast garbage.
Game 5 - (4-20 shooting)
Game 6 - (8-27 shooting)
That's called inconsistency. What did Kobe do before Game 4. He had a whopping 14 points (2nd highest scorer), 3 rebs, and 5 assists in Game 1 while Shaq had 40 points, 19 rebs, 4 assists, and 3 blks. Game 2 Kobe goes down in the first qtr. Shaq again with 40 points, 24 rebs, and 3 blks. Kobe didn't even play in Game 3.
The ONLY reason Phil wanted Harper on the team was because he was knew the triangle and could help out in limited minutes. He wasn't some juggernaut roleplayer. Otherwise Harper wouldn't have been a 2nd thought to any other team in the league.Do you think for a second that Pop wouldn't have traded ty Vinny Del Negro to get 2000 Ron Harper on his last legs? That's basically what he did in 98 when he didn't even offer him a contract to pick up Mario Elie after the Rockets assumed he was done.
And what was so ty about Vinny Del Negro? In the '96 playoffs his averages in 10 games.....
14 ppg, 3 rebs, 3 assists, 46% shooting...59% (16 of 27) from 3 point land.
That's about on par with Duncan's BEST roleplayer in 2003. Duncan's best roleplayer was a freakin PG that scored 14 points with 3 assists, and 3 rebounds on 40% shooting and couldn't hit the side of a barn from 3 point land. Once again, excuse me if I don't cry for poor old Dave Robinson's lack of supporting cast.
Last edited by hitmanyr2k; 03-13-2007 at 07:19 PM.
I guess Dirk Nowitzki has a better post-up game than Bird, too.
Why are u talking about Bird?? He wasn't a center
didn't watch Dirk since 2004?
Sorry about being off topic, but some brilliant basketball analyst mentioned that a big man with no post game (or at least a post game as "weak" as Robinson) can never lead his team to a ring.Why are u talking about Bird?? He wasn't a center
Bird was brought up to counter this ridiculous claim. I could have brought up Wes Unseld or Willis Reed, I suppose.
Of course the same genius that brought up Larry Bird completely forgot he had one of the best low post scorers of his era on the same team.
And I have no idea why you even brought up Barkley either. A 6'5 forward is NOT a big man
I didn't forget McHale was on the team, because that was a direct response to your following quoteOf course the same genius that brought up Larry Bird completely forgot he had one of the best low post scorers of his era on the same team.
And I have no idea why you even brought up Barkley either. A 6'5 forward is NOT a big man
So are you saying it was McHale who carried those Celtics team to the 3 rings? Or are you going to say that Bird had a post up game. Afterall, YOU were the one who also said
So why is Bird's supporting cast (ie McHale) all of a sudden important now? It doesn't matter. Either Mchale lead the Celtics to the 3 championships, or a supporting cast matter. It's one or the other.
And Barkley was a big man, he was 6'5", but he was 260 lbs, and built as one of the most physically unique PF in the league. Doesn't matter he wasn't tall enough, he had a fantastic back to basket game, and rebounds like nobody's business. He is as big as they come.
Weren't you telling me something about Robinson's work ethic?
So, since the 2003-2004 season Dirk has shot 2188 free throw attempts in 297 games, for an average of 7.37 FTAs per game.didn't watch Dirk since 2004?
Tim Duncan has shot 2016 FTAs in 278 games over the same period, for an average of 7.25 FTAs per game.
Is Dirk Nowitzki simply more of a threat from the low post than Duncan is, or are you willing to accept that jumpshooting and slashing big men (like David Robinson) are capable of drawing fouls as capably as post-up players who have dependable go-to moves?
I can do that or I can look at how Dirk shoots 0.43 FTs per FGA, vs. 0.46 for Duncan during the same period. Doesn't sound much, except in a game where the star player shoots 15 - 20 shots, it amounts to 25 to 30 FTAs a season.
Afterall, it's hard to get FTa without shooting.
Dirk plays with his back to the hoop about as often as David drove in from outside the 3 point line. Robinson was a complete player. He had a jumpshot, and play with his back to the hoop as well. But I'm not delusional enough to think he could slash like Dirk, but he was MUCH more of a post presence.
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