Yeah..but I couldn't get anyone to concede that the one man team playoff argument is a stupid an inaccurate one...so I re-evaluted my own stance...
Duncan #1. 3 Finals MVP's, younger than anyone.
Based on finals MVP's....It's stupid logic...these are the same tools that call us boring.Analysts dont have it in for the Spurs. They give Duncan props as one of the all-time greats.
They annoint K. Malone as a top 15 player all-time even though he played for a weak media market like Utah. DRob just wasnt quite in that tier.
Psss Malone had the second best PG of all time for his entire career, then went and played with Shaq, Kobe and Payton...and still wound up ringless.
Out of O'Neal, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq how can anyone possibly say DRob belongs in that group?
Anyone that watched them play, and play against each other....which of obviousy wasn't you...since you think Drob played in the 92 playoffs.
I'll give you that one...but Elliott also choked the game winning FT's of game 1 of the 95 WCF.By the way, Otis Thorpe was a 14-10 player (career avg's). He made the all-star game once or twice (similar to Elliott). Very underrated player, but hardly a better 2nd banana than Elliott.
Oh really? Duncan won a le last year shooting 46% and up until this playoffs, he was a sub 500% shooter for his playoff career...Putting aside what "people" say, the stats, rings, and resumes simply are stronger for O'Neal, Duncan and Hakeem than they are for David. Particularly the playoff stats, when anything of substance is actually on the line.
What's the difference? Stephen Jackson, Steve Kerr, Mario Elie, Jaren Jackson, Robert Horry...
Go look at what Duncan shot against LA in 04 when he had Hedo choking.
Drob shot over 50% with every PG he ever had...except Avery Johnson.
Hakeem didn't even make the playoffs when he had AJ.
Why don't you tally up the resumes of the teamates...Answer me this: If Robinson's cast was so awful as you submit, why did the Spurs win 2 games against Houston in 95 while the Magic were swept by Houston (given that the matchup of Hakeem-Robinson was much more lopsided statistically than Hakeem-O'Neal)?
The answer to this is simple...you couldn't double Hakeem because then his teamates, otherwise known as the most prolific 3 point shooting team of all time, with Drexler added in...would destroy you.
You could double David...his PG couldn't shoot and neither could his 2 guard really.
Sam Cassell came of the bench in game 5 to score 30 points in that series...
That's be AJ's caeeer high....
And that was Hakeem's BACKUP PG.
IF the analysists don't tell you how essential Cassell was to those les...they weren't watching.
Casell, Elie, Smith and Horry took turns hitting last second game winners...Drob never had anyone hit a game winner for him.
Look at the FT's...Drob was shooting 16 FT's per game...He was doubled, Hakeem wasn't...
Last edited by whottt; 06-11-2006 at 09:05 PM.
David Robinson in his prime in my opinion was unstoppable in his prime, he took snack to school in his prime with his quickness, patrick was a little more trouble because he was strong and quicker than shaq but would still beat him with his athletic ability. So my question is would Robinson be able to guard dirk or would he get embarrassed like Duncan has against dirk, I think Robinson would shut him down 4 out of 5 times.
and you would be right.So my question is would Robinson be able to guard dirk? I think Robinson would shut him down 4 out of 5 times.
uhh perhaps you guys have never heard of a player named
DAVID
ROBINSON
If you were going to design a player from scratch to stop Dirk, David would be the absolute prototype. He's as tall as Dirk, quicker than Dirk, stronger than Dirk, drastically more athletic than Dirk, an incredible blocker, and an amazingly gifted one-on-one defender. With David on him full-time, Dirk would be reduced to taking contested fadeaways.
Shaq scored 5 ing points last night.
Did David ever score 5 points in a playoff game?
Drob never did it when he was the main bigman on the team, and asked to to be the main inside threat, but he had a lot of lowscoring games once Duncan got here and he became the defensive anchor primarily. In 02 VS the Lakers when Drob had the floating back problem he had a scoreless game. But truthfully, he shouldn't have even been on the court he was so messed up.
Drob never did it when he was a focal point of the offense, doubleteam or not. Not even in 2000 at the age of 35 when Duncan was injured and he hadn't played that role in 2 or 3 years. His worst game when he was the main man was a 9 pointer at Portland his rookie year.
Duncan has though. Against Portland game 2 in 1999, he had a 5 point game, we won anyway, because teamates make a difference. He also had a 9 point game VS LA in the 01 debacle....courtesy of Mr. Robert Horry mainly.
Hakeem had a few stinkers later in his career too.
Reason it never happened to Drob was because he was always good at getting to the line and he was an above average FT shooter for a bigman.
He's scored 0 points before.
Although, I don't hold that against him.
After this season...You have to put Dirk, (The real NBA MVP) on that list...
Luc Longley.
Maybe in a close second, Will Perdue.
Or not
wow im in a loss of words....kevin garnett,tim duncan and patrick ewing in their prime better than shaq in his prime...
he said those are his favorites.wow im in a loss of words....kevin garnett,tim duncan and patrick ewing in their prime better than shaq in his prime...
To strengthen Whott's points, look at Shaq when his teammates cannot convert (Games 1 and 2), and look at Nowitzki when his teammates are. You think Dirk is as dominant as Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem in their primes? no, it's just that it's easier scoring 35 points when you are not getting doubled.
Did you see Shaq get five points in Sunday's Finals game? Five points! Lowest ever... He's not talking about it... Coaches and Pat Riley are upset... The only person happy about it? Kobe...
whottt: but, but, Shaq has Wade
dumbasses of epic proportions: so, Drob had AJ.
Die die die you incomparably stupid s, and let the human race start to get smarter, immediately.
That's kind of funny, isn't bleeding asshole what your mom used to lovingly refer to you as?
Anyways, I leave this thread for a couple of days and you now have gone from bad to worse, Robinson is better than Hakeem now? Because he missed the playoffs one year? Robinson is better than Shaq because he's only been swept once in the playoffs? WTF??? You want to judge the all-time greats on minor failures in their careers and ignore their greatest accomplishments and failures? Well, I guess that makes sense because your horse has no great accomplishments and one major failure, and yes maybe less minor failures!! Way to go Robinson!!
Too bad he never lead his team to a le, or multiple les for that matter. Too bad he couldn't perform in the playoffs and he was a choker. I won't post a bunch of insignifcant and random stats ADD-style and offer it as proof like some other jerkoff. Just look up how his playoff numbers went down almost every season compared to his regular season stats, he couldn't get it done when it counted, period. So if you want to continue to jerk Robinson off because of regular season (minor) accomplishments and less minor failures then post on, but if you want to get real and look at bigtime accomplishments and bigtime failures, reality is waiting to hear from you.
BTW that 4th quarter play by play that you posted you ignored the biggest part of it, Robinson missing 1 of 2 free throws with 45 secs to go, choke job. Please explain away how Robinsons playoffs stats go way down in comparison to regular season and Shaq's and Hakeems go up? Let's quit ignoring the real accomplishments and failures that define a players career, because your BS reasons mean nothing except to you.
Last edited by BAkriD; 06-14-2006 at 02:09 AM.
U cats are still at it?
Where's Wilt at?
BAkriD's still fighting? You'd think you can be owned only so many times before admitting you're wrong.
Check before you post it.
Olajuwon's PPG went up by about 4 and assists by 0.7. Everything else was nearly identical.
Shaq went up slightly in blocks and rebounds, but dropped in everything else slightly (well, assist went up by 0.1).
Check the year by year playoff stats for David: http://www.databasebasketball.com/pl...lkid=ROBINDA01
In the years he was the primary weapon (up through 96/97), in every year except 93/94 (the year he won the scoring le, he had no help that year, which is why he won the scoring le), his stats went UP in the payoffs with points, rebounds, and assists going up most of those years, and little dropping significantly. It's only when you include his seconday/role player days that his playoff numbers drop.
Feel free to look up olajuwon's year by year or shaq's, or whatever. Up until Robinson suffered a devastating back injury and voluntarily gave up being the #1 guy, his numbers went up in the playoffs quite well.
Last edited by fyatuk; 06-14-2006 at 07:28 AM.
No kidding. He gave up fighting with me...
Believe me I did look it up, I think you are looking at the wrong stats because he sucked in the playoffs compared to regular season. Here are the 3 years best years that the Spurs had when he was the best player on the team, and he was arguably the leader, and was his prime. Regular season/playoffs
94: 29.8/20.0 ppg 10.7/10.0 rpg 4.8/3.5 apg 3.3/2.5 bpg 1.75/.75 spg
95: 27.6/25.3 ppg 10.8/12.1 rpg 2.9/3.1 apg 3.2/2.6 bpg 1.7/1.45 spg
96: 25.0/23.6 ppg 12.2/10.1 rpg 3.0/2.4 apg 3.3/2.5 bpg 1.4/1.5 spg
Those numbers are definitely not going up, they are down. So how you look things up before you try and refute them.
And BTW his FG% dropped like a stone 2 out of 3 of those years in the playoffs. In '94 it went from .507 to .411, in '95 it went from .530 to .446, and in '96 it stayed even at .516.
The FG% for Robinson in the playoffs is what really stands out. It's very dramatic. It's understandable for it to dip a little, but Robinson's was pretty extreme.
But then again, unlike what some of the admitted Robinson homers are saying, this has more to do with his style of play which relied so much on using his athleticm for easy hoops and just outrunning bigs in transition. In the slowed down playoffs, it's all about your halfcourt game.
The reason guys like Duncan, Hakeem, and Shaq are just on a different level than DRob in the eyes of 99.99% of people is that in the halfcourt in the playoffs, these guys have so many go-to moves which set the table for guys like Horry, Parker, Fisher, Bowen, Cassell, Elie, etc to get wide open 3's.
Robinson just never had a back to the basket game which is why his FG% dropped so much in postseason play. Duncan and Hakeem had so many post moves to consistently create high % shots and O'Neal had a nice touch around the hoop to go with his power game, which no one was physical enough to stop (in his prime, which he is clearly not in anymore).
Also, for whoever made the comment about Hakeem's stats being the same in the playoffs, that's just not true. He improves in literally every category (PPG, FG%, FT%, assists, and blocks).
Why was Jordan able to perform brilliantly individually early in his career in the postseason when his supporting cast before Pippen was absolute crap? (Orlando Woolridge was the second best player on that team, would you take him over Elliott).
Why did Hakeem continue to put up great #'s in the postseason when his supporting cast post-Sampson and pre-Horry Cassell was so weak with guys like Floyd, Purvis Short, Mike Woodson, etc being key starters on those teams?
Role players are important but to say they are the be all and end all for a person's individual achievements is going overboard. Role players aren't the reason Hakeem had a 15 foot turnaround jumper which was nearly automatic. They aren't the reason Kareem had a skyhook which was unguardable. They aren't the reason Duncan has about 8-10 great post moves and such awesome footwork.
The argument isn't so much that Robinson never won a ring as the #1 option IMO as that he never matched his regular season level of play in May and June when the games really counted.
I'm sure somewhere out there there's a Jazz fan who thinks Malone is the best PF ever, not Duncan and his logic is that Duncan just had better teams or never had to play MJ while Malone did twice in the finals. But does that change the fact that Malone didnt really match his regular season caliber of play in the postseason? That he missed easy FT's and shots in his typical comfort zone in the playoffs when the pressure was greater? No it doesn't. And that's what separates Duncan from him IMO. Duncan has come up big often in the playoffs, even this year.
And that's what keeps Robinson out of the tier of Kareem, Hakeem, TD, and Snaq.
Let's say it's the playoffs game 7 with a minute left tied game and you have Hakeem, TD, Shaq, and DRob all at your disposal. Who are you running a play for in that situation, who gets the ball to win it?
At the top of the list. It's just assumed that no one touches Wilt. Not really much of a debate...
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