Has it occurred to you fellows that:
1. The reason the Spurs began sliding out of contention (only to come back knocking this year) was not merely because Matt Bonner found himself not being wide open in the corner for a 3, but also because Tim Duncan began declining because of his age, and he no longer had defensive stalwart Bruce Bowen but a big numbers scrub in Richard Jefferson?
2. Andray Blatche would be as much a savior of the Spurs as the Laker fans touted Ramon Sessions would be?
3. This roster is perfectly built to cruise through the regular season (seriously - the Spurs only lost TWO regular season games after Jackson returned). While its playoff capabilities are a bit more questionable (Pop seems to be coming around, what with Bonner seeing a total of THREE minutes in the last 3 games of the WCF) there's still the trade deadline.
4. And the Spurs would actually do best to wait until a month or two into the season to move their trade chips. Buy low, sell high - and the RS minutes eaters in Bonner/Blair would garner more interest when they do their regular season thing, maximizing the team's leverage.
The Bonner haters either don't know or choose to ignore this. In the WCF, Bonner's minutes went 11, 17, 23, 2, 1, 0. Sure, Bonner (unsurprisingly) had a bad game 3, but so did a lot of the team. Blaming Bonner for the WCF collapse is completely laughable.
And those #NBArank guys know what they're doing; Bonner is #178, or the equivalent of a below-average 6th man or above-average 7th man.
The FO will only make a move mid-season if the team looks healthy and compe ive. Unless an acquired player turns into a superstar down the stretch, he will mainly get regular season PT so that Timmy and the older players can get rested for the playoffs. imo
This has nothing to do with blame. But the WCF made it obvious (even for me as I am not such an "expert" as most people here) that Matt Bonner is not made for real playoff basketball and basketball under pressure. You could see that every time he got the ball he wanted to get rid of it again (and I do not mean shooting a three) because defenders were coming at him faster than in the regular season. Others did not produce as well in the WCF, but only Bonner showed fear ...
I will live with Bonner in the regular season, because he helps the Spurs winning games and the Spurs will need that trying to be #1 in the West again. But in the playoffs Pop has to sit him as soon as he tries to dribble the ball instead of taking an (half) open shot ...
I don't want to live with Bonner anymore - regular season or playoffs. There is no way anyone - Spurs fan, coach or analyst - can justify Bonner's continued presence on this team. There is nothing else we need to see from this choking dog. Bonner is a ceremonial, regular season, one-trick pony, with no playoff value. His time on this team should be over. And why Pop continues to keep him around is truly the biggest mystery of Pop's coaching career. By keeping him around, Pop is doing an injustice to himself and the rest of the team.
No one is blaming Bonner for the WCF because he hardly played - which is an indictment in itself. The problem is - and this is something the Bonner defenders fail to realize - is the fact that Bonner's continued presence on this roster is detrimental. Why? Because he's taking up a roster space where the Spurs could and should employ a productive big man.
Pop's love of the face-up, stretch 4 is hurting this team. There is nothing that Bonner provides that cannot be replaced. As a matter of fact, getting him out of here would be addition by subtraction. On the other hand, keeping him around is truly the definition of insanity.
Like fireball said, Bonner showed pure fear, of course he was benched, wtf was Pop supposed to do? Keep playing him? Bonner got minutes and completely the bed, that is why Pop benched him, not because he wanted to, but because he had no choice.
The other problem was that Pop had no backups or backup plan to Bonner completely ting himself, which left the Spurs at a huge disadvantage as he was a key rotation player.
He's definitely not the entire reason the Spurs lost, but he was a big contributor towards it as Pop had to change his lineups and game plan because Bonner was just not up to it.
I can understand Tim being a team player and supporting his teammates, but it's time for Bonner to go and Tim needs to lead the charge to get him off the team. He's had enough chances, and it's pretty clear that he's not a playoff or any type of pressure moment player.
I love the persistent assumption among Spurs fans that because x hasn't happened, the Spurs haven't even considered doing x.
For instance:
the assumption that because Matt Bonner is still on the roster, the Spurs haven't even considered trying to rid themselves of Matt Bonner
The assumption that because the Spurs haven't signed another big man (or traded for one), the Spurs haven't even tried to sign or trade for a big man.
Spurs could easily get Blatche IMO if they put the full court press on him. Doesn't seem like they really want him. Maybe they have tried all of what you said, but sometimes they are just too secretive and the fans don't like that and take that as if they are doing nothing. The fans want to know what is going on, and if the Spurs always want to keep it secretive, you can expect the fans to jump on them a lot of the time because it seems like they are doing nothing.
I get that this is your opinion, but how do you get to a conclusion that they could "easily" make that happen? There are plenty of reasons why a guy in Blatche's position would rather go elsewhere.
Yeah, I don't think anyone who runs the Spurs really cares if your bothered by their secrecy. You continue to support them, no matter how much you might dislike their strategies, so why on Earth would they change that approach?Doesn't seem like they really want him. Maybe they have tried all of what you said, but sometimes they are just too secretive and the fans don't like that and take that as if they are doing nothing. The fans want to know what is going on, and if the Spurs always want to keep it secretive, you can expect the fans to jump on them a lot of the time because it seems like they are doing nothing.
Honestly, I just think its silly to assume that nothing happening means that they haven't tried to do anything.
1. Fell out of contention? When did this happen. Theyv'e had to deal with a rash of injuries that derailed any chance at a serious playoff push. Manu Ginobili was healthy for the first time in the post season since 2007 and the Spurs were 2 games away from making the NBA finals. And Yes, when TD is asked to do it all on the defensive end, it wears him down. I'm sorry management is too blind too notice.
2. Blatche at league minimum woud be like getting something for nothing. How many possible 16 and 8 guys do you see flooding the free agent market willing to play for the shirt on their back? And I don't recall anyone calling him a savior.
3. Blair is making jack and sporting no ACL's and Bonner is post season useless. When will it sink in that other teams aren't interested in trading for our junk. Without something to offer, don't expect anything much in return.
4. See 3. Blair fell completely out of the rotation and Bonner struggles to find himself useful during the regular season. Neither will make a huge impact. And neither will garner much interest around the league. The fact that this is still being discussed is beyond me. The Spurs have NO leverage. They'd be better of keeping Bonner and Blair because their potentail output is much greater than anything they would receive in a trade and it isn't even close.
The bottom line is Buford his pants this offseason. With a shoestring budget in hand, he had a chance to improve the team and fulfill a team need but, instead, he chose to sign a bunch of no name, impactless scrubs to training camps in hopes that one would make the roster. Bush league GM'ing at its finest.
4.
Last edited by Hoops Czar; 09-06-2012 at 11:56 AM.
Amen to that ... if some productive big man is available, I am all for dumping Bonner and shipping him back ton Toronto. But if this does not happen, I still can live with Bonner playing 10-15 minutes in the regular season.
When the Spurs were woefully outplayed and outmanned during the ill-fated Memphis playoff series of a year ago, Pop expended all manner of efforts to solve the issue. Out went Hill. In came Leonard. After watching 3 seasons of RJ, Pop shipped him out and reacquired SJax.
The point is Pop is smart and enough and has enough wherewithall to know his roster's limitations. Him not playing Bonner much in the WCF is as much telling about that situation as anything. Yet, it's not new and it defies logic how Pop can continue to watch Bonner "stink up the joint" every year, leaving the Spurs shorthanded and undermanned, and do nothing about it.
Last edited by SenorSpur; 09-06-2012 at 12:01 PM.
isnt it contract season for blair? he better come around or else...devin brown route
Don't let Fabbs get in your head Ice.
This thread ing delivers.
Exactly. That's what this is about. I don't know why anyone is bringing up the word savior, since I've yet to see anyone who was pro-Blatche say that. And if they did, then obviously they're delusional. The intelligent fans know there was a slim chance of Blatche making an impact and improving the team's ceiling, but for the veteran's minimum, it was more than worth it to find out.
What they've basically said, is they're content with their ceiling being a Conference Finals exit. They've done nothing to attempt to alter that inevitability, yet inexplicably, Duncan not only signed off on that, but did so for at least $2M annually less than he's worth. Worse yet, they're attempting to suck people in (and even worse than that, people are getting sucked in) to this "internal improvement" nonsense, as if this is the past few off seasons. News flash: Splitter and Green are near finished products and Mills and Blair are not in the rotation. Only Leonard has room for significant improvement, but even then, the ceiling would only improve if Duncan and Ginobili remain status quo.
Who cares if they're "better off than last year at this time"? They're not better than when the season ended and they weren't good enough then. And who cares about "all of their trade assets"? They're too cheap/gun shy to pull the trigger on a significant move, particularly in season (and no, Jackson/Jefferson doesn't qualify, since there was virtually no risk involved).
The Spurs argument for not doing anything is athleticism doesn't mean a player is good. They basically are using a false dichotomy. It's not just all Diaw-like players and then athletic no brainers. There's alot of variation. They don't need perfect they just need serviceable. Someone who can grab some rebounds, block some shots, and hit the open shot.
The one thing that ticks me off about Bonner more than his playoff choking is his lack of hustle. He should have the most floor burns on the team. He should be frustrating opponents by playing frenetically on defense. This was the first year I actually saw him taking harder fouls in the playoffs. If he came in to the game and brought energy we would have probably won the series. Instead every time he entered the game we lost momentum. The guys plays scared and cowardly.
Sounds like Blatche signed with the Nets officially anyway.
I keep hearing that an agreement has been reached, but he's still playing them off against Miami.
Fixed.
Okay, thank god. Onto the next molehill.
I don't post often, but I've said several times the last few years that the "cheap" ownership screwed the best years of the 3 Amigos careers. In fact, if you go back to the pre-TDuncan DRob era, the "cheap" ownership screwed the best years of his HoF career. An owner or ownership group in the mold of Buss, or Cuban, or Maloofs would have spent whatever it took to build around DRob, and TDuncan/Manu/TP so that there would have been enough depth to reach the NBA Finals every year for two decades.
Then, again, perhaps it was just a matter of not finding enough All-Star caliber players who have "gotten over themselves" who were willing to make the financial sacrifice to be on a dynasty for the ages. You know what Sacred Scripture says about the love of money being the root of not winning theevery year.
And yet, he's kept around like some sort of mascot or pet rock, in spite of it all.
Well said!
I agree with TD21 and SenorSpur. Great points, actually, by both.
I think it's great that Blair is demanding a trade because it at least forces RC's hand a little bit. And hopefully this motivates Blair to improve, divest his Whataburger stock, and play better.
I agree that internal development is sort of a cop-out line told by the coaching staff, but perhaps they're saying that to increase Blair/Neal's trade value. Not saying that is their angle, but it would make sense if it was.
Last point on internal development - if the coaching staff is being honest about this concept then they need to look in the mirror as well and figure out what they're doing that could be improved upon. You would think that would mean shutting down Bonner, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.
I agree about the cheap ownership. I have no problem with them being cheap when the big 3 are gone and they're trying to develop young talent but they were always a player or two away from winning a few more championships. They've basically rode the big 3 into the ground by refusing to provide enough help.I don't post often, but I've said several times the last few years that the "cheap" ownership screwed the best years of the 3 Amigos careers. In fact, if you go back to the pre-TDuncan DRob era, the "cheap" ownership screwed the best years of his HoF career. An owner or ownership group in the mold of Buss, or Cuban, or Maloofs would have spent whatever it took to build around DRob, and TDuncan/Manu/TP so that there would have been enough depth to reach the NBA Finals every year for two decades.
Then, again, perhaps it was just a matter of not finding enough All-Star caliber players who have "gotten over themselves" who were willing to make the financial sacrifice to be on a dynasty for the ages. You know what Sacred Scripture says about the love of money being the root of not winning the
lol a thread about andray ing blatche going to 20 pages
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