Trouble in Crawford: "Why did my son die?"

[jochhejaam]

Whatever you think of Cindy Sheehan it is incredible that W won't just meet with her and be honest and tell her that Iraq was elective war.

W's problem may soon turn into Tom Delay's problem
Alertnet

What's incredible is that everyone knows Sindy's a prop for the lunatic-left and Michael Moore and you still have people such as yourself that think it's "incredible" that he won't meet with her.

And now enter the Sharpton camp, guess he hasn't been gettin' much press lately.
Michael, Sindy and Sharpton, choose your poison, eh?

[Nbadan]

What are right-wing pundits to do when nobody buys their lies anymore?



Attacking Cindy Sheehan was the worst mistake this administration could have made...



Just because Michael Moore posts Cindy's letters on his site, all of the sudden a mother who only wants answers to why her son had to die, is 'in bed' with MM? I suppose since Reuters News Service posts the same letters then Reuters is also in bed with Sheehan and MM?



Cindy Sheehan did not go looking for organizations like Moveon.org, but her pure message attracted these organizations



The loss of her son gives her absolute moral authority to keep asking why this war was neccessary



W had a chance to stop this, but he didn't and now folks, we have a circus.

[JoeChalupa]

Bush knows how to use props as well.

[Trainwreck2100]

Cindy Sheehan did not go looking for organizations like Moveon.org, but her pure message attracted these organizations

I'd say it's more of the anti-bush thing that attracted these organizations and not the message.

[hussker]

1) Son signed up voluntarily, as an adult...was not conscripted
2) Agreed to obey orders of those appointed over him
3) Agreed to support and defend the Cons ution of the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic
4) Swore to bear true faith and allegience to the same
5) Agreed to follow the orders of the President of the United States
6) Did this of his own free will
7) Without mental reservation or purpose of evasion
and Swore that to God (That certainly has to irritate some of you)

The man did what the man felt he should do and he died doing it. That is unfortunate, but people do it for corporations on a daily basis...either getting to the job, working at the job, or coming home from the job.

Cindy, pull up your stakes and praise your son...This does not glorify him.

[Jelly]

"The loss of her son gives her absolute moral authority to keep asking why this war was neccessary"

I am so sick of this "absolute moral authority" bull . She has no more moral authority than the 3,700 other parents of fallen soldiers (and if you took a poll among that group you would find her to be in the minority). And I seriously question the morality of a woman who advocates - no INSISTS- that we pull out of Iraq immediately, a move that would lead to the slaughter of the millions of Iraqis who dared try to make their country a better place by 'collaborating' with Americans. This woman has no moral authority. She is morally repugnant and the more she opens her mouth the more peoples feelings toward her will change as mine did... from sympathy to disgust.

btw- She's no f*cking genius. She's hardly the only one in America asking if the war was necessary. Get a clue. People from all sides have been asking this question for a long time and most have concluded that it probably wasn't. But the fact is, the war happened and we are there. The question to be asking is where do we go from here. The answer is not cut and run. Most people who were against this war will at least acknowledge our responsibilities to Iraq.... most people except that in Crawford.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

"The loss of her son gives her absolute moral authority to keep asking why this war was neccessary"

I am so sick of this "absolute moral authority" bull . She has no more moral authority than the 3,700 other parents of fallen soldiers (and if you took a poll among that group you would find her to be in the minority). And I seriously question the morality of a woman who advocates - no INSISTS- that we pull out of Iraq immediately, a move that would lead to the slaughter of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who dared try to make their country a better place by 'collaborating' with Americans. This woman has no moral authority. She is morally repugnant and the more she opens her mouth the more peoples feelings toward her will change as mine did... from sympathy to disgust.

Bush has no moral authority either when he opens his mouth.

[hussker]

We all have authority to ask the question. The answer is not so pleasant. Follow the trail, if you choose to look for it. If you do not look for it, you will never find it. Most of the time the right decision is not the popular decision. It takes guts to make that decision. History, not present day, will determine if the decisions made by the administration were/are right or wrong. We should support them for what they are. If we do not like the decisions, then perhaps we should pull up our proverbial stakes and leave. You will not find the same sweet life in other countries (Japan, Korea,China, Canada, England, Afghanistan, Mexico, Iraq to name a few I have been to) that you find here.

[JoeChalupa]

Once again the proverbial..."If you don't like it....leave"...comes around.

America is the land of the Free and that does not pertain only to those who believe in Bush. I'll be damned if I'm leaving just because I don't agree with some of the actions of this administration.

[Jelly]

I certainly wouldn't like to live in North Korea, Mexico, or Afghanistan, but I know you can find just as good a life in Canada and England as you can find here.

[hussker]

I certainly wouldn't like to live in North Korea, Mexico, or Afghanistan, but I know you can find just as good a life in Canada and England as you can find here.

Go live there for 5 years and please report back to us how much you enjoyed their way of life. I challenge you.

[hussker]

Once again the proverbial..."If you don't like it....leave"...comes around.

America is the land of the Free and that does not pertain only to those who believe in Bush. I'll be damned if I'm leaving just because I don't agree with some of the actions of this administration.

I did not say "If you do not like it, leave..." but you do have choices.

[Jelly]

Go live there for 5 years and please report back to us how much you enjoyed their way of life. I challenge you.

no, I'm not going to do that just to satisfy an internet debate
I have lived in other countries...Britain, Panama, and Germany. (the latter I lived in for 9 years). You can have a great life in any one of them. (not so much in Panama since the canal was handed over)

[hussker]

No satisfaction of an Internet debate. There is no debate. How many people are beating down the borders to get into some of those other countries? It is easy to say that life in another country is just as good when we know that we are only temporary residents and we get to come back. That is my only point. We are fortunate to have choices that other countries' residents do not have.

[hussker]

...and, I do not agree with every aspect or facet of this war. I am certainly not (and neither are MOST of us) in a position to know all of the intelligence going on. Those things will all come out in the end and history can decide. I do not disagree with Ms Sheehan's right to do what she is doing. She certainly has that right. I question not her motives. What I question is judgment. That is all.

[Jelly]

No satisfaction of an Internet debate. There is no debate. How many people are beating down the borders to get into some of those other countries? It is easy to say that life in another country is just as good when we know that we are only temporary residents and we get to come back. That is my only point. We are fortunate to have choices that other countries' residents do not have.

hussker,
surely you realize that there are also tons of people beating down the doors trying to get into Britain and Canada? It's obnoxious and uninformed to think that the U.S. is the only desirable place to live...or even that it is considered by the world as the "most" desirable place to live. It isn't. It's among a group of similarly desirable places to live.

p.s. my mother is British and it took her 20 years to like living in America and she still prefers Britain....to the point where they have decided that when he retires this year they will move back there for good. She can't wait. America is not everyone's dreamland, Husker.

[hussker]

Ok, show me the data. That is opinion you are spouting.

[Jelly]

Ok, show me the data. That is opinion you are spouting.

uh..yeah, just as you have to this point only spouted your opinion. I'm sorry, but can you show me where your data is? Here's a fun little exercise, boys and girls, find the data in the following..

"No satisfaction of an Internet debate. There is no debate. How many people are beating down the borders to get into some of those other countries? It is easy to say that life in another country is just as good when we know that we are only temporary residents and we get to come back. That is my only point. We are fortunate to have choices that other countries' residents do not have."

You don't know much about many other countries if you think we are the only ones with boat loads of immigrants wanting in. I'm not going to invest a lot of time researching world migration stats, (especially since you have thus far provided zero real data) but I'll plug in some quick numbers I got off of the CIA world factbook website.

Net Migration
U.S - 3.31 per 1,000 (pop)
Canada - 5.9
Australia - 3.91
U.K.- 3.91

Also, google Pew Global At udes. This is a recent poll which measured at udes in 16 different countries. One of the questions asked respondents where they would most like to immigrate. I think the U.S. came in 4th or 5th. After Australia, Canada, and Britain.

I love my country, but I am not so narrow-minded as to think it is the only great place to live and that everyone in the world wants to come here.

[jochhejaam]

Originally posted by nbadan : Just because Michael Moore posts Cindy's letters on his site, all of the sudden a mother who only wants answers to why her son had to die, is 'in bed' with MM? I suppose since Reuters News Service posts the same letters then Reuters is also in bed with Sheehan and MM?

There's a big difference in those that make and those that report the news Dan. Like Moore is politically neutral.

[hussker]

uh..yeah, just as you have to this point only spouted your opinion. I'm sorry, but can you show me where your data is? Here's a fun little exercise, boys and girls, find the data in the following..

"No satisfaction of an Internet debate. There is no debate. How many people are beating down the borders to get into some of those other countries? It is easy to say that life in another country is just as good when we know that we are only temporary residents and we get to come back. That is my only point. We are fortunate to have choices that other countries' residents do not have."

You don't know much about many other countries if you think we are the only ones with boat loads of immigrants wanting in. I'm not going to invest a lot of time researching world migration stats, (especially since you have thus far provided zero real data) but I'll plug in some quick numbers I got off of the CIA world factbook website.

Net Migration
U.S - 3.31 per 1,000 (pop)
Canada - 5.9
Australia - 3.91
U.K.- 3.91

Also, google Pew Global At udes. This is a recent poll which measured at udes in 16 different countries. One of the questions asked respondents where they would most like to immigrate. I think the U.S. came in 4th or 5th. After Australia, Canada, and Britain.

I love my country, but I am not so narrow-minded as to think it is the only great place to live and that everyone in the world wants to come here.

Those are for "LEGAL" immigrants and those wanting asylum. Bet you cannot get a true number for those illegally getting in and wanting asylum! My point is this...America is still the land of opportunity. It is still the land of freedom. It is still the land of "NO CEILINGS FOR SUCCESS IF YOU ARE DRIVEN". Point of order here. My wife is Japanese, still a Japanese Citizen and proud of her heritage. She is educated beyond what the majority of Americans are and most Japanese WOMEN. She is the only PERSON in her family who 1) Speaks English 2) Lives in the US 3) Has a PhD.
You know why she wants to stay here but retain her Japanese citizenship? Simple: The United States and Japan make up roughly 13% of the World's Population, yet together, have 88% of the WORLD's WEALTH. That wealth is defined well beyond the spectrum of GNP. It deals with GNP and what is in the distribution lines for consumption of goods. She is proud (very proud) to be Japanese. She is fortunate to have th opportunity to come to a country where she can maximize her potential.
In Japan, the Woman has a ceiling for success, regardless of credentials/schooling, etc...
In the United States, that ceiling is unlimited. It is, however, at a cost. What is the cost? Taxes. Legislation. Protection. Legal course for living here if not a citizen. More taxes.

The value gained? FREEDOM. The same FREEDOM that Casey Sheehan enlisted in the USMC for to protect for you, your family, and those who beat down the doors to come here. The same freedom he signed up to protect that allows us to think, speak and act the way we do with protection. The same freedom that most who are on Ms Sheehan's bandwagon have never fought for. The same freedom that gives you the right to either love or loathe the Executive/Legislative/Judicial branches we have here in the United States.

Do other countries have that same freedom? I would say NO. I have been there to those countries. I have seen the results of what some of our "allies" do in the face of protest. We are fortunate to have that right to protest and support as we see fit. People fight and die for that. Not just those who are from here...but those who strive, whether legally or illegally, to get here. Check those numbers dear. That is reality...not something out of a database. Of course, our borders are easier to get into, so I will give you that, but there are many who want to, and do succeed at getting in. Much higher than your sterile numbers.

As far as POLLS go...never trust them. If we did, then Bush would have never been president, let alone a two-termer.

Hugz,
hussker

[hussker]

And oh, by the way, Global at udes are SUBJECTIVE. No objectivity in that whatsoever. Non-data.

[hussker]

and finally, as I said before, you have choices as an American. Take that statement for what it is worth. I am now going back to the Cowboys-Texans game...something unavailable in many of the aforementioned countries...

[hussker]

except on AFN, provided by your tax dollars

[hussker]

for YOUR troops fighting so you can have the freedom of this web board

[hussker]

God Bless the USA