EU Britian stay

[Winehole23]

Tony Major suggests rescinding Article 50.

[Winehole23]

May to face no confidence vote:

British Prime Minister Theresa May, who faces a vote of no confidence in her leadership of the Conservative Party on Wednesday, said any new leader would have to extend the March 29 deadline for Britain’s exit from the European Union.


“A new leader wouldn’t be in place by Jan. 21 legal deadline, so a leadership election risks handing control of the Brexit negotiations to opposition MPs in Parliament,” May said.


“A new leader wouldn’t have time to re-negotiate a withdrawal agreement and get the legislation through Parliament by March 29, so one of their first acts would have to be extending or rescinding Article 50, delaying or even stopping Brexit when people want us to get on with it,” she said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1OB0WN

[Winehole23]

EU rules out renegotiation:

https://www.france24.com/en/20181211...renegotiations

[pgardn]

Is trump still complementing the UK on their dumbass vote.
What an absolutely unnecessary mess.

But, but...

We have our sovereignty.
Fools...

[boutons_deux]

WE DON’T NEED ANOTHER BREXIT VOTE … WE NEED TWO

a second referendum would solve nothing.

If Leave were to win again, we’d still be stuck choosing between a bad deal and no deal.

And if Remainers win, half the country would rightfully feel cheated after their hard-won political victory of 2016 —

the largest democratic exercise in British history — was essentially brushed under the carpet.

So instead of arguing between the least bad of four terrible options, here’s a fifth option:

Let’s have not one, but two more referendums, to make this a best two-out-of-three thing.
https://www.ozy.com/immodest-proposa...a04bf10a595031

[Winehole23]

Richard North, pellucid as ever:

Matthew Parris has a very weird idea of democracy, urging current MPs to take charge of the Brexit process. They must then, he says, tell the voters that they didn't reach the right decision in opting to leave the EU.


What happens then he doesn't exactly specify but one presumes Parris wants MPs to instruct Mrs May's government to revoke the Article 50 notification in a sort of factory reset of Brexit. That then leaves it open as to whether we have another referendum, and what questions might be posed.


But what this former MP doesn't seem to get is the implications of such an action by parliament. But its critics might not that, through the progression of additional European treaties since 1975, it had never exerted itself to insist that the people were consulted. Instead, it has allowed governments to agree successive treaties, stripping parliament of its powers, and handing them to the ins utions in Brussels.


Then, when at last the people get a chance to vote and, effectively, instruct parliament to recover the powers it has ceded to Brussels, Parris wants parliament to rise up and tell the people they are wrong, and refuse to comply, acting to ensure that powers remain in Brussels.


There are most certainly other ways of spinning this but there is nobody who can prevent such a view circulating, laying the foundations of a meme that will hold that the only time parliament has seriously exerted itself in the last forty years is to reject the re-acquisition of powers that they have given away.

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87099

[Winehole23]

Tories rebel:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46805269

[pgardn]

This is what happens when you put a complex issue before the public.

This is proving why we vote for people more than we do policy.
All this makes politicians look brilliant.
This was the stupidest vote of all time.
Far worse than electing Trump.

[Winehole23]

price of poker just got a lot higher:

British-ruled Northern Ireland will automatically have a “hard border” with its southern neighbor if Britain leaves the European Union without a withdrawal agreement, the European Commission’s chief spokesman said on Tuesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1PG1GV

[boutons_deux]

On the Brink of Brexit: the Only Thing Most People Outside Westminster Know About Brexit is That It’s a Mess

It is apparent from what people say that the near hysteria about Brexit in parliament, government and some news outlets is not yet widely shared by the mass of voters.

Instead, there is perplexity and disengagement, though this could swiftly change.

their expectations are low and they do not realistically see them improving, adding:

“The worst thing for me is that you can have a father and mother both with jobs and they still can’t pay for their rent and food, though they are trying their bloody hardest.”

It was poorly educated people on low wages or benefits, living in areas like Thanington, who overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU.

it was older, poorly educated voters who were decisive in the poll.

He writes that “the data confirms previous indications that

local results were strongly associated with the educational attainment of voters –

populations with lower qualifications were significantly more likely to vote Leave”.

every study of the results shows that it was the older and less qualified voters, particularly those living in poor, largely white housing estates, who put Leave on top on the night of the referendum.

“It was partly voters saying a plague on both your houses [when it came to the Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dem parties] and sod you shyster politicians,” he says.

“Partly, it was fear of immigration: if you knock on doors people say ‘it is all these bloody illegals.’”

People do not understand what is going on with Brexit

“I have spent a lot of my life in Europe and I speak French and German, but I still don’t know enough to decide what the country should be doing.”

they do not know what to think, though they strongly suspect that nobody cares what they think, which was one of the main reasons they voted Leave in the first place.

I haven’t found anyone who voted to Leave that has given me a good reason or argument or discussion on why they think it will benefit us.

opposition to the EU is about much more than Britain’s relationship with Europe. It is, among many other things,

an incoherent opposition to the status quo

Brexit will certainly hurt the UK –

weakening links with your largest market is never a good idea for a commercial country –

but the damage may well take the form of slow erosion rather than sudden collapse.

She believes lack of education makes it easy for newspapers or politicians to persuade people that immigrants come to UK solely to live on benefits, take the jobs of local people, and get free treatment from the NHS.

“It is a real Project Fear,” she says,

“it encourages the belief that if these immigrants are going to get more, then you are going to get less.”

feel not so much “left behind” as “left out”,

excluded from “the political system that they feel can’t do them any worse.”

senior officials in the government say in private, as a matter of fact, that Britain is inevitably going to be weaker and poorer if the government achieves its aim of leaving the EU.

They are aghast at seeing old alliances being thoughtlessly thrown away and

the “Irish Question”, which convulsed British politics for centuries, being fecklessly reopened.

The educated classes are deeply worried and demoralised, but don’t know what to do to avert the inevitable shipwreck.

It is only when this becomes clear that we will begin to learn if the proponents of Leave are going to respond to disappointment with apathy or with rage.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/01...at-its-a-mess/

Amazingly parallel to American voting for Trash. Partly because the same mysterious, hidden people were acting in both elections.

"clear the (Dem and Repug) swamp" equals "pox on both your houses"

low-wage, low-ed, older people in both countries voted for Trash and for Brexit,

because they knew both the so-called "democracy" and Capitalism had failed them, so blow the country up, can't get any worse.

And they were all propagandized that non-whites, immigrants were huge problems.

Of course, England's Empire invaded, occupied, de-stabilized, impoverished, exploited brown and black countries for centuries.

[ElNono]

Sony to move Europe headquarters to avoid Brexit disruption

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46968720

[boutons_deux]

Third of UK businesses considering move abroad

16% already had relocation plans

while a further 13% were actively considering doing so.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47083214

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't really care whether England stays or goes but presuming that when the smoke clears they won't be able to trade with Europe is ridiculous.

[CosmicCowboy]

The US isn't part of the EU and we do a trillion dollars of trade with them a year.

[Winehole23]

Good point, US will them good.

Who's pretending the EU won't do business with GB, CC?

[CosmicCowboy]

Good point, US will them good.

Who's pretending the EU won't do business with GB, CC?

Boos article insinuated it.

Brexit will certainly hurt the UK –

weakening links with your largest market is never a good idea for a commercial country –

but the damage may well take the form of slow erosion rather than sudden collapse.

[Winehole23]

Hmm, maybe.

But maybe it just suggests Great Britain needs the EU more than it needs GB, and that it is negotiating trade at a serious disadvantage -- which is surely true.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hmm, maybe.

But maybe it just suggests Great Britain needs the EU more than it needs GB, and that it is negotiating trade at a serious disadvantage -- which is surely true.

EU can't afford to let them out too easy so the rest won't start falling like dominos.

[Winehole23]

That's correct.

[koriwhat]

fall to islam already so we can cut ties with all of those capitulating es!

[Winehole23]

[boutons_deux]

I don't really care whether England stays or goes but presuming that when the smoke clears they won't be able to trade with Europe is ridiculous.

England will be able to trade with EU but through the expensive friction of customs and tariff barriers, as before.

Pootin loving how he got this going, EU breaking up.

UK Conservatives' Thatcher/Reagan neo-liberalism for the BigCorp and austerity for bottom classes produced

the same desperation,

impoverishment as USA,

the same scapegoating of "blame the non-whites,

the same "blow democracy and Capitalism the up" because the have failed the bottom of society.

A big sticking point is that Ireland is staying in EU, which means customs/tariff barriers on the border between the Republic and N. Ireland.

I guess it also means people will not be able to cross the Irish border freely, either.

It's a ing mess. Farage, Bannon, billionaire Mercer, Pootin are loving the storm.

[koriwhat]

England will be able to trade with EU but through the expensive friction of customs and tariff barriers, as before.

Pootin loving how he got this going, EU breaking up.

UK Conservatives' Thatcher/Reagan neo-liberalism for the BigCorp and austerity for bottom classes produced

the same desperation,

impoverishment as USA,

the same scapegoating of "blame the non-whites,

the same "blow democracy and Capitalism the up" because the have failed the bottom of society.

A big sticking point is that Ireland is staying in EU, which means customs/tariff barriers on the border between the Republic and N. Ireland.

I guess it also means people will not be able to cross the Irish border freely, either.

It's a ing mess. Farage, Bannon, billionaire Mercer, Pootin are loving the storm.

last time i gave a about the EU was never. in' burn baby burn!

[pgardn]

last time i gave a about the EU was never. in' burn baby burn!

Actually the abovewould mean you gave a .
You don't like the organization.
Why not?

[pgardn]

I don't really care whether England stays or goes but presuming that when the smoke clears they won't be able to trade with Europe is ridiculous.

Who assumed this?

Britain just made a lot more political work for themselves and for the EU while overall making things more expensive and possibly make it harder to work.
I call that stupid.