Game Thread: Spurs at Jazz -- Thurs. (12/21) - 7:30/P, 9:30/C (5:30am Riga Time)

[duncan2k5]

Murray with 8 boards, great D and one of the best +/- of the team but folks "didn't notice his presence".

let them be...they only care when things show up in the box score...

[Chinook]

Pop had a 6-5 guy who was an All-Defensive guy in college sitting on his bench, but it made sense to use Patty and Forbes to check Hood and Ingles.

[TE]

Its just a process. Tonight was a season high in minutes for him. This is his pre season. He'll probably a couple more mins than tonight soon

I understand the process of bringing him up to speed physically. I personally don't agree with it IF it's not a medically suggested one.

[bklynspursfan]

Murray with 8 boards, great D and one of the best +/- of the team but folks "didn't notice his presence".

Pretty sure 3-4 of those boards came in the last couple mins fwiw

I know he is capable of defending but I didn't see this Great D you're speaking of.

[bklynspursfan]

I understand the process of bringing him up to speed physically. I personally don't agree with it IF it's not a medically suggested one.

Probably isn't, but also Kawhi probably isn't ready for big minutes. Tonight he finally didn't seem too winded, so he's getting there. No need to rush for December games

[DAF86]

Pretty sure 3-4 of those boards came in the last couple mins fwiw

I know he is capable of defending but I didn't see this Great D you're speaking of.

Well you know how Hood kept making shot after shot over Tony, Patty and Forbes? Do you remember him making one of those over Murray? Well, there you go.

[bklynspursfan]

defense and pacing...he definitely had impact

Mmh, almost nothing. He was just the point guard of the lineup that got us back into the game. When you switch everything on D it's nice to have guards with a 7 foot wingspan, tbh.

Maybe I missed it, its possible. But I mean they got within 1 with him on the bench thanks to TP. So who knows if it's enough with him in there anyway. I still think it's on Aldridge more than anyone , but whatever. This is who he is at times

[duncan2k5]

Pretty sure 3-4 of those boards came in the last couple mins fwiw

I know he is capable of defending but I didn't see this Great D you're speaking of.

what exactly were you looking for? steals? the guy cut off a lot of drives, fought over screens, thus preventing the switch and mismatch, caused his man to give up the ball...good defense isnt always a block, steal, or making someone miss a shot...sometimes it is preventing a shot in the first place...him fighting over screens and causing the PG to pass it off is good defense...

then about pacing...we played with good pace when he was in...

and no...he didnt grab 3-4 boards in the last 3 minutes of the game...sigh...most of them came during significant times...one of the importances of your PG grabbing the board is pace control

[sasaint]

Frustrating. Its like he didn't want to be out there

No matter who the opponent is, it is absolutely imperative to give Touches the ball early and often or else this is the kind of performance we will more than likely get. Not saying I like it, but that's just the state of affairs with the Spurs. It seems like he is intimidated by Kawhi's shadow. Even though he has returned to the court, Kawhi is playing low minutes, but LMA just isn't the same player he was. Beginning a couple of games before Kawhi's actual return, LMAlpha was already becoming LMBeta.

[SAGirl]

I understand the restriction with Parker. My question on the minutes restriction is at what point is it necessary for Kawhi. Kawhi looked physically fine while in the act. Medically speaking if this is purely a coaching decision it's asinine.

Tony played 26 minutes,
Kawhi only 20.

Kyle was injured and after Pop proclaiming he would only play 15 minutes last game, he played 24 and now 21 on a B2B.

So I think the point is, that Kawhi has to be holding himself out to a degree. He's the one who says how he's feeling. Tony rehabbed like a madman and came back before the doctors even thought he should have been playing. The original prognosis was until January or February he would be out.

So, I think we don't know everything there is to know about the Kawhi injury and it might have been something worse than we know, or like Chinook said, an overuse or stress injury that could recur and they are being super careful about it.

But my point was that the other injured guys came back and played sooner than we thought and a minutes load as far as they could handle and not the super careful shtick. Also, Manu is one who has told Pop when he wants to play even when Pop wants to sit him. If Manu feels like he can play, he's playing and he's said so publicly. So Kawhi has to be holding himself back some, IMO.

[duncan2k5]

Maybe I missed it, its possible. But I mean they got within 1 with him on the bench thanks to TP. So who knows if it's enough with him in there anyway. I still think it's on Aldridge more than anyone , but whatever. This is who he is at times

so u dont think murray helped...but u say aldridge did??? wtf game were YOU watching?

[DAF86]

Maybe I missed it, its possible. But I mean they got within 1 with him on the bench thanks to TP. So who knows if it's enough with him in there anyway. I still think it's on Aldridge more than anyone , but whatever. This is who he is at times

Mmh, no son. They got withing 1 point with Murray on the floor to close the 3rd, then Tony came in for him to make it -8, then he had a nice run to make it back to -1 (so 0 net) and then left the game down 10 (-9 for that entire sequence).

[TE]

Green looked fine last night ... until he overexerted himself and reaggravated his injury. Even more than the fact that Kawhi had a stress injury, what people are forgetting is that he healed so slowly from this quad thing that it baffled the team's med staff. You don't around with that. If he gets injured again, it could take past the ASB to get him back.

I wonder what treatment Kawhi received. IIRC it was chronic tendinitis (quad). It's a tricky pathology, blah blah you've probably read up on it. It's an overuse injury.

There's a chance we can see the amount of stress that tendon can take. And its coming soon.

[Chinook]

what exactly were you looking for? steals? the guy cut off a lot of drives, fought over screens, thus preventing the switch and mismatch, caused his man to give up the ball...good defense isnt always a block, steal, or making someone miss a shot...sometimes it is preventing a shot in the first place...him fighting over screens and causing the PG to pass it off is good defense...

then about pacing...we played with good pace when he was in...

and no...he didnt grab 3-4 boards in the last 3 minutes of the game...sigh...most of them came during significant times...one of the importances of your PG grabbing the board is pace control

Murray grabbed four of his boards after Pop waived the white flag. They weren't in the last minute, but they also weren't in the guts of the game. PGs grabbing boards is fine, but it's not all that helpful overall.

[SAGirl]

Pop had a 6-5 guy who was an All-Defensive guy in college sitting on his bench, but it made sense to use Patty and Forbes to check Hood and Ingles.

Inexplicable. the team needed to score, and I think that is why he went with Forbes and Patty, but they also needed stops.

[sasaint]

Pop had a 6-5 guy who was an All-Defensive guy in college sitting on his bench, but it made sense to use Patty and Forbes to check Hood and Ingles.

Can fans sue a coach for malpractice?

[TE]

Probably isn't, but also Kawhi probably isn't ready for big minutes. Tonight he finally didn't seem too winded, so he's getting there. No need to rush for December games

Meh I am all for big picture. Heard on the broadcast (unreliable) that Kawhi tried talking himself back into the game, or was it TP?

Physically he looked fine, I wonder what five more minutes would have done. We'll see going forward

[sasaint]

so u dont think murray helped...but u say aldridge did??? wtf game were YOU watching?

I think you misread the comment. I think he was suggesting the loss was on LMA and his incredibly shrinking performance.

[bklynspursfan]

Well you know how Hood kept making shot after shot over Tony, Patty and Forbes? Do you remember him making one of those over Murray? Well, there you go.

In the 3rd, murray came in at the 6:26 mark, hood left at the 4:02 mark. (Not a ton of time)

Hood took 1 floater and missed, and drew a shooting foul on Murray. I'm just questioning whether he was the Hood stopper you're making him out to be. We literally didn't make any dent until Patty hit those 3 3's

[DPG21920]

Did anyone notice how Kyle seemed to miss that FT on purpose so Murray could try and get a board?

[TE]

Tony played 26 minutes,
Kawhi only 20.

Kyle was injured and after Pop proclaiming he would only play 15 minutes last game, he played 24 and now 21 on a B2B.

So I think the point is, that Kawhi has to be holding himself out to a degree. He's the one who says how he's feeling. Tony rehabbed like a madman and came back before the doctors even thought he should have been playing. The original prognosis was until January or February he would be out.

So, I think we don't know everything there is to know about the Kawhi injury and it might have been something worse than we know, or like Chinook said, an overuse or stress injury that could recur and they are being super careful about it.

But my point was that the other injured guys came back and played sooner than we thought and a minutes load as far as they could handle and not the super careful shtick. Also, Manu is one who has told Pop when he wants to play even when Pop wants to sit him. If Manu feels like he can play, he's playing and he's said so publicly. So Kawhi has to be holding himself back some, IMO.

If Kawhi is indeed holding himself out, then that's him listening to his body. Can't be mad about that.

[bklynspursfan]

so u dont think murray helped...but u say aldridge did??? wtf game were YOU watching?

Wtf post are you reading. This game is on Aldridge, meaning he's why we lost.

[SAGirl]

Mmh, no son. They got withing 1 point with Murray on the floor to close the 3rd, then Tony came in for him to make it -8, then he had a nice run to make it back to -1 (so 0 net) and then left the game down 10 (-9 for that entire sequence).

Tony was fine, but when Aldridge got in foul trouble and Joff came in and Tony was left with a lineup that included Joff and Davis, that was it for the team. He set up Joff repeatedly (and one time for Davis, who fumbled the pass) but the bigs couldn't finish a single shot that Tony set up. Murray was a positive before then bc he played during a few minutes where him and Kyle set up Mills for B2B baskets and made a little run.

The game had ebbs and flows and several guys were off offensively including Murray himself, so it was tricky for Pop. They clearly missed Pau a lot, and frankly if Pau's groin thing keeps him away Pop has to make adjustments to avoid a repeat of tonight. The lineups didn't make sense etc. Many guys who aren't shooters bungled together etc.

[Chinook]

Mmh, no son. They got withing 1 point with Murray on the floor to close the 3rd, then Tony came in for him to make it -8, then he had a nice run to make it back to -1 (so 0 net) and then left the game down 10 (-9 for that entire sequence).

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975221

Parker was in for both the run that brought the Spurs back and the Jazz run that put them away. Both happened in the first six minutes of the fourth. As far as I can tell, Murray's most positive run plus-minus wise came in the last six minutes of the third where the team went from eight down to four down.

[bklynspursfan]

Mmh, no son. They got withing 1 point with Murray on the floor to close the 3rd, then Tony came in for him to make it -8, then he had a nice run to make it back to -1 (so 0 net) and then left the game down 10 (-9 for that entire sequence).

Uh, no son. They got within 2 to end the 3rd. Parker got it within 1. You can verify that http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975221

utah started the 4th on a 6-0 run which made them go back up by 8.