NBA Trade Deadline 2019

[Chinook]

Firstly you compare Prince to Oubre.Prince is on a better contract than Oubre,as he is contracted all through next year so he is gonna demand $ later than Oubre will.They are both basically 3&D players right now.My issue is Prince is definitely a Spurs type player,never caused any problem,and Oubre is a headcase.I know you know that,come on.Pop would have him locked in the doghouse after the first tech,the first scuffle with punches thrown.

I didn't bring up Oubre to compare their production. I did it to demonstrate the going rate for players. Oubre didn't draw a first-round pick. Lou Williams and Bojan Bogdanovic only drew firsts when their teams agreed to take back bad salary. Even Cousins before the injuries got one protected pick and a prospect that a lot of folks were iffy on. You can argue that Prince has more value than Oubre (and I don't disagree with your critique of Oubre), but I don't think you can argue that he has more value than the Spurs could muster.

Then you go and compare him to Bryn Forbes? I mean,seriously,how can you even compare them?

Forbes is a deadly shooter,good at ude guy,occasionally does a drive and floater or complex layup for 2.He is a liability in defense,not his fault,it's his size and built.

Prince is a SF,consistent from 3,but his upside comes from his size and ability to play defense.I've personally engaged in this conversation cause i vividly remember him guarding Lebron last year in Atlanta and he was holding his ground physically and i was impressed.Lebron dropped 30 on him,but he never backed down,he wasn't "physically" overwhelmed.
Players with that size and wingspan and mentality to play defense while also shooting close to 40% from 3 are potentially elite role players on contending teams.
How can you compare that to Forbes? I certainly cannot. Cheers.

Dante Cunningham has guarded Lebron as well as Prince ever has. At this stage of James' career, it's not hard to find a guy who can look Lebron in the eye while he gets roasted. I don't consider being a taller turnstile a great trait. It doesn't help that Prince hasn't been a good defender in years. It doesn't make sense to classify him as a good defender when none of the numbers back that up.

It's easy to list Forbes' faults to see where he comes up short, but you're not doing the same to Prince. You consider him having high upside despite him being an old prospect who's already in his third year. You call him consistent even though he doesn't seem any more consistent than the average player. As mentioned, you call him a good defender despite him not playing good defense.

That's why I said, "No matter how bad you think Forbes is, Prince is worse." Because Prince IS worse. Folks wanting to replace Bryn in the SL just assume he'll fix the problem. But what if he's terrible at rotations or has below-average agility in cross-matches? What if he's good at set threes but bad moving without the ball? What if his poor rebounding (the Hawks board better without him) negates his size? People aren't negatives on the floor without reason. There's more to being a good basketball player than being big.

[GreekSpursfan]

I get what you’re saying but if you could get prince for a 1st rounder you gotta do it, I think the spurs are wanting to keep the picks but in the same sense it would be unfair for the veteran guys like LA who want to win now, they gotta look for ways to improve the team. Plus might as well go all in for pops final year/years

Prince for one pick i agree but i dont see them pulling off something like that. Conley's contract is horrible, Spurs better not touch that, as for Tristan T. i'm on the fence about him, i dont know. Pop is not an idiot to go all in for a fool's gold attempt. As i said before he is building something for his successor and the sad part is that he doesn't have the other two young guys(Lonnie obviously not 100%) to build faster.

[SpursDynasty85]

I didn't bring up Oubre to compare their production. I did it to demonstrate the going rate for players. Oubre didn't draw a first-round pick. Lou Williams and Bojan Bogdanovic only drew firsts when their teams agreed to take back bad salary. Even Cousins before the injuries got one protected pick and a prospect that a lot of folks were iffy on. You can argue that Prince has more value than Oubre (and I don't disagree with your critique of Oubre), but I don't think you can argue that he has more value than the Spurs could muster.



Dante Cunningham has guarded Lebron as well as Prince ever has. At this stage of James' career, it's not hard to find a guy who can look Lebron in the eye while he gets roasted. I don't consider being a taller turnstile a great trait. It doesn't help that Prince hasn't been a good defender in years. It doesn't make sense to classify him as a good defender when none of the numbers back that up.

It's easy to list Forbes' faults to see where he comes up short, but you're not doing the same to Prince. You consider him having high upside despite him being an old prospect who's already in his third year. You call him consistent even though he doesn't seem any more consistent than the average player. As mentioned, you call him a good defender despite him not playing good defense.

That's why I said, "No matter how bad you think Forbes is, Prince is worse." Because Prince IS worse. Folks wanting to replace Bryn in the SL just assume he'll fix the problem. But what if he's terrible at rotations or has below-average agility in cross-matches? What if he's good at set threes but bad moving without the ball? What if his poor rebounding (the Hawks board better without him) negates his size? People aren't negatives on the floor without reason. There's more to being a good basketball player than being big.

Your not giving PATFO enough credit on developing Bryn. You are in the small minority who thinks Bryn is a better prospect. If Forbes was drafted by any other team we would look at him as a G leaguer. Prince drafted by the Spurs he would look that much better. He has already averaged more than 14 ppg last 2 seasons and about 38% from 3.

[exstatic]

True but then we have Forbes, Mills, Belli, and Walker on the bench at the very least next year. One of them has to go. Probably Forbes or Belli. But Spurs want to keep the reputation of utilizing their loyal veterans and taking care of them so I assume Forbes is our go to trade asset. We should not be worried about losing Forbes since we have to permanently bench someone next year anyway.

Beli may not be back. I don't think they can afford to keep both he and Rudy. Rudy will be in line for like a 7-8M bump with Early Bird rights, and that will come from Pau being waived or traded. Beli makes like twice what Forbes does, too.

[SpursDynasty85]

Beli may not be back. I don't think they can afford to keep both he and Rudy. Rudy will be in line for like a 7-8M bump with Early Bird rights, and that will come from Pau being waived or traded. Beli makes like twice what Forbes does, too.

Belli signed a 2 year deal fully guaranteed unless they trade him, he is on the Spurs next year. I fully expect Spurs and Belli to have talked about him not being traded and if they do trade him Belli would probably have a say in where he goes. It may be his final year in the NBA.

Edit: Wow didn't know Marco was only 32. I was thinking he was closer to 35. But I think he got a lot of assurances from the PATFO before he signed, I would think.

[duncan2150]

Prince developed in the Bud system until this year (his best year), and he's been the in the league as long as Forbes. There's really no reason to act like Bryn had some huge advantage. Forbes is also less than a year older, so it's not like Prince is a young guy. Players can still develop obviously. Look at PJ Tucker. But Prince isn't really set up for it. He's not a good defender. His numbers in that regard only really looked good his first year (as a bottom-of-the-rotation player). He might be able to get back there, but he wouldn't be the first guy who got exposed after playing more minutes. If PATFO wants him, that's good enough for me. But it'd be clear to me why they wouldn't want him if they don't.

that's not about age or years in the league, it's just about the profile for me and imo prince has a better potential. i can agree with you on some things but you can't say prince is not a good defender.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/taurean-prince Look at his draftprofile. His weaknesses are all about offense.

[GusT15]

It's easy to list Forbes' faults to see where he comes up short, but you're not doing the same to Prince. You consider him having high upside despite him being an old prospect who's already in his third year. You call him consistent even though he doesn't seem any more consistent than the average player. As mentioned, you call him a good defender despite him not playing good defense.

That's why I said, "No matter how bad you think Forbes is, Prince is worse." Because Prince IS worse. Folks wanting to replace Bryn in the SL just assume he'll fix the problem. But what if he's terrible at rotations or has below-average agility in cross-matches? What if he's good at set threes but bad moving without the ball? What if his poor rebounding (the Hawks board better without him) negates his size? People aren't negatives on the floor without reason. There's more to being a good basketball player than being big.

You're right,i am subjectively taking it easy on Prince and not listing that he is half assing it on defense,only grabbing 4 boards per game,moving slower than his physical attributes command.I am not denying he hasn't developed as he should.But there is a reason i am doing that and it's cause he is currently playing on the worst team in the league.Tanking does that to a player (especially a player in his third year in the league).Defense in my personal opinion is 50% physical capabilities and 50% mental determination.If you're okay as a team with losing,the first thing that will be affected is your defense (cause you still want to get those juicy numbers on offence).

Anyways,i am not saying he could be the second coming of 2013 Leonard,and i am not saying he is a sure thing.I'm saying he is a player that would show and provide much more than he is providing in his current team and a player this Spurs team is lacking and in need of.If he's worth a 1st round pick in the late 20's is debatable.If he would push Bryn out of the starting line up is something that nobody can predict as well.

But i am in no way against Forbes as a player,mind you.The kid worked his butt off,he bulked up,he earned his minutes.He went from being an undrafted college prospect to a legitimate 3point threat in the NBA and a player who is always gonna keep trying in defense.
It's just that,the way this team is constructed,the lack of a 3D wing is constantly hurting us.I dunno how long can Derrick White guard the other team's SF AND orchestrate the offence AND score his 15ppg and,and,and.. The lack of said wing from the roster is putting so much responsibility in White's hands and it's starting to show late in games.

Nonetheless,this whole conversation started cause the Hawks want to move Taurean Prince,not cause the Spurs came knocking on their door.They want to develop Huerter,they don't want Prince cause the front office that drafted him is not there? Fine.Cause that to me means the team taking him on is not overpaying.Thus,we're conversing about his value and what he can provide.

[ceperez]

Beli may not be back. I don't think they can afford to keep both he and Rudy. Rudy will be in line for like a 7-8M bump with Early Bird rights, and that will come from Pau being waived or traded. Beli makes like twice what Forbes does, too.

Beli is on a two year contract.

Why would Rudy get that kind of a bump when he's been injury prone this season? If he was healthy, then yes. But his body is falling apart and what's saving him is more efficient play.

[exstatic]

Your not giving PATFO enough credit on developing Bryn. You are in the small minority who thinks Bryn is a better prospect. If Forbes was drafted by any other team we would look at him as a G leaguer. Prince drafted by the Spurs he would look that much better. He has already averaged more than 14 ppg last 2 seasons and about 38% from 3.

Bryn was never drafted, by the Spurs or anyone else. He got a camp invite, and beat out someone with a partial guarantee for the 15th spot. What Prince would have been if drafted by SA is immaterial. He wasn't, and he's 3 years into his career, and doesn't play much D at all. I agree with Chinook: RIGHT NOW, Forbes is better. Prince has more upside, but that gets left on the table all of the time by players who bust out of the league. If you make too many non-draft decisions based solely on upside, you won't have much of a career as an NBA GM. Most NBA players never reach their potential. That's one of the reasons that the Spurs have extensive interviews with almost all of their draft targets. They can figure out what their work ethic is.

[ceperez]

You're right,i am subjectively taking it easy on Prince and not listing that he is half assing it on defense,only grabbing 4 boards per game,moving slower than his physical attributes command.I am not denying he hasn't developed as he should.But there is a reason i am doing that and it's cause he is currently playing on the worst team in the league.Tanking does that to a player (especially a player in his third year in the league).Defense in my personal opinion is 50% physical capabilities and 50% mental determination.If you're okay as a team with losing,the first thing that will be affected is your defense (cause you still want to get those juicy numbers on offence).

Anyways,i am not saying he could be the second coming of 2013 Leonard,and i am not saying he is a sure thing.I'm saying he is a player that would show and provide much more than he is providing in his current team and a player this Spurs team is lacking and in need of.If he's worth a 1st round pick in the late 20's is debatable.If he would push Bryn out of the starting line up is something that nobody can predict as well.

But i am in no way against Forbes as a player,mind you.The kid worked his butt off,he bulked up,he earned his minutes.He went from being an undrafted college prospect to a legitimate 3point threat in the NBA and a player who is always gonna keep trying in defense.
It's just that,the way this team is constructed,the lack of a 3D wing is constantly hurting us.I dunno how long can Derrick White guard the other team's SF AND orchestrate the offence AND score his 15ppg and,and,and.. The lack of said wing from the roster is putting so much responsibility in White's hands and it's starting to show late in games.

Nonetheless,this whole conversation started cause the Hawks want to move Taurean Prince,not cause the Spurs came knocking on their door.They want to develop Huerter,they don't want Prince cause the front office that drafted him is not there? Fine.Cause that to me means the team taking him on is not overpaying.Thus,we're conversing about his value and what he can provide.

PATFO has given enough signals to the league that they are in search for a SF.

Hawks have said they want to trade Prince. If its because the want to develop and pay for another player then that's a better reason than saying he's damaged goods.

The case to be made for Prince is that he could play and be developed in the Spurs system.

Ideally he gets traded for nothing (i.e. Cunningham).
I don't get why a trade for Forbes is even in consideration here.
The other option is for one of the Spurs picks. If there's nobody of worth in the 1st or 2nd round, then its worth trading. Spurs favor veteran players because they know it takes several seasons to get a rookie ready to play.

The real question here is whether Prince is an upgrade over Cunningham. Cunningham's main problem is that he doesn't no where to be on the court.

[duncan2150]

PATFO has given enough signals to the league that they are in search for a SF.

Hawks have said they want to trade Prince. If its because the want to develop and pay for another player then that's a better reason than saying he's damaged goods.

The case to be made for Prince is that he could play and be developed in the Spurs system.

Ideally he gets traded for nothing (i.e. Cunningham).
I don't get why a trade for Forbes is even in consideration here.
The other option is for one of the Spurs picks. If there's nobody of worth in the 1st or 2nd round, then its worth trading. Spurs favor veteran players because they know it takes several seasons to get a rookie ready to play.

The real question here is whether Prince is an upgrade over Cunningham. Cunningham's main problem is that he doesn't no where to be on the court.

I think if we trade for prince it will be for a first ( i will give toronto pick)

you're serious about the upgrage over cunnigham ?

[ceperez]

I think if we trade for prince it will be for a first ( i will give toronto pick)

you're serious about the upgrage over cunnigham ?

There's also Stanley Johnson who has been rumored to be a target: https://airalamo.com/2019/01/24/spur...anley-johnson/

Prince' numbers look better than Johnson. Spurs may be able to pickup Johnson for next to nothing.

[duncan2150]

There's also Stanley Johnson who has been rumored to be a target: https://airalamo.com/2019/01/24/spur...anley-johnson/

Prince' numbers look better than Johnson. Spurs may be able to pickup Johnson for next to nothing.

both could be interesting for a late first imo

[GusT15]

Spurs may be able to pickup Johnson for next to nothing.

Well there are multiple reasons for that.

The main one being Stanley Johnson sucks donkey balls

[duncan2150]

Well there are multiple reasons for that.

The main one being Stanley Johnson sucks donkey balls

agree i'm more concerned about johnson than prince, he has some tools but is really bad in detroit.

[ceperez]

Well there are multiple reasons for that.

The main one being Stanley Johnson sucks donkey balls

But look at this defensive battle against Kawhi:



The dude is big enough and long enough to defend.

Prince is a better offensive player were decent percentages. Stanley is a top 10 draft pick with poor numbers.

If it costs Spurs a draft pick then maybe it is worth it for either.

If Chip says that he can teach Johnson to shoot then it might be worth it.

[SpursDynasty85]

Bryn was never drafted, by the Spurs or anyone else. He got a camp invite, and beat out someone with a partial guarantee for the 15th spot. What Prince would have been if drafted by SA is immaterial. He wasn't, and he's 3 years into his career, and doesn't play much D at all. I agree with Chinook: RIGHT NOW, Forbes is better. Prince has more upside, but that gets left on the table all of the time by players who bust out of the league. If you make too many non-draft decisions based solely on upside, you won't have much of a career as an NBA GM. Most NBA players never reach their potential. That's one of the reasons that the Spurs have extensive interviews with almost all of their draft targets. They can figure out what their work ethic is.

I know that he wasn't drafted. That makes my point even more glaring. Bryn is a beneficiary of the Spurs development program and that their best players live in the paint and kick out for their shooters to shoot wide open.

Most other teams, Bryn would be required to create a lot of his own 3 pointers, which is a big struggle for him. If Bryn was on the Hawks his stats would look much worse too. They are team full of young players and with a rookie pg as their leader.
Pop could do wonders for Prince immediately.

[ceperez]

I know that he wasn't drafted. That makes my point even more glaring. Bryn is a beneficiary of the Spurs development program and that their best players live in the paint and kick out for their shooters to shoot wide open.

Most other teams, Bryn would be required to create a lot of his own 3 pointers, which is a big struggle for him. If Bryn was on the Hawks his stats would look much worse too. They are team full of young players and with a rookie pg as their leader.
Pop could do wonders for Prince immediately.

In theory.... PATFO couldn't do wonders with Cunningham.

[Spurs da champs]

In theory.... PATFO couldn't do wonders with Cunningham.

Cunnigham is much older and is what he is. I'd love to see what Spurs could do with Stanley Johnson given his youth.

[ceperez]

The better deal is Prince since he's locked up for another season. Stanley Johnson is a rental without a contract for next year. It's like Johnson is close to being kicked out of the NBA.

[ceperez]

Cunnigham is much older and is what he is. I'd love to see what Spurs could do with Stanley Johnson given his youth.

I think the odds of getting Johnson is higher than the odds of getting Prince. This also means that it'll cost less!

[SpursDynasty85]

In theory.... PATFO couldn't do wonders with Cunningham.

Prince is much better than Cunningham. Cunningham is a tall Keith Bogans. Just a hustle player who can fit in with a good team and above 30 years old now.. Prince has much better athleticism and skills and is just starting to enter his athletic prime. Cunningham is more a PF with no 3 ball. Prince is your prototypical next generation standard SF or small ball PF.

Anyway, I'm done talking about this because I am 100% sure Hawks are not trading Prince at a low price. Prince has a high market value right now and rumors were that he was discussed afterwards when their real intentions are to move Bazemore and Dedmon. Prince is a throw in because they want to get some one with high market value.

[ceperez]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robwolk.../#4698f3955f15

[sasaint]

I think the odds of getting Johnson is higher than the odds of getting Prince. This also means that it'll cost less!

Friend, in your post immediately above you posit that Johnson is close to getting kicked out of the NBA. Why would we even want such a player, much less waste anything on a trade? We have kicked/are kicking the tires on a bunch of guys like that - nay, better: Blossomgame, Washburn, Moore, Huestis. If we make any move - make it count.

[ceperez]

Prince is much better than Cunningham. Cunningham is a tall Keith Bogans. Just a hustle player who can fit in with a good team and above 30 years old now.. Prince has much better athleticism and skills and is just starting to enter his athletic prime. Cunningham is more a PF with no 3 ball. Prince is your prototypical next generation standard SF or small ball PF.

Anyway, I'm done talking about this because I am 100% sure Hawks are not trading Prince at a low price. Prince has a high market value right now and rumors were that he was discussed afterwards when their real intentions are to move Bazemore and Dedmon. Prince is a throw in because they want to get some one with high market value.

I agree here that Prince isn't going to come cheap. Hawks want to get paid premium for Prince.