Windhorst: Wembanyama Not Thrilled With Where Spurs Are; Doesn't Think Spurs Can Get Away With Slow Build

[Dejounte]

The Spurs would be so wise to deepen the connection to France making Wemby truly an international phenomenon. Try to be like Manchester United: super meh city but somehow everyone in the world reps them because they have (had?) the best players

This is exactly what Holt is doing

[Pauleta14]

So now Victor has a "legacy complex" doctor Chinook ?

There are zero indication as of now about what he would do nor what he really thinks of the situation. Even in a worst case scenario he'd still be smilling and carpe diem etc

However he's shown in a recent past that he was able to seperate emotions/relations and professional decisisons by changing twice teams each time bc he thought a few things prevented him from reaching his goals, even if he'd have been drafted whatever team he'd have been on.
Being categoric one was or another is absurd

I hope he stays long but he's not Duncan, he likes the lights, he's comfortable with medias and he wants to write history in a sport with a huge entertainment aspect.

It's not going to happen in SA guys and I won't blame him if he wants to leave in 7y or more for LA or NY with a nice trade helping the Spurs rebuild.

Still a lot of time to enjoy him as a Spur

[z0sa]

So now Victor has a "legacy complex" doctor Chinook ?

There are zero indication as of now about what he would do nor what he really thinks of the situation. Even in a worst case scenario he'd still be smilling and carpe diem etc

However he's shown in a recent past that he was able to seperate emotions/relations and professional decisisons by changing twice teams each time bc he thought a few things prevented him from reaching his goals, even if he'd have been drafted whatever team he'd have been on.
Being categoric one was or another is absurd

I hope he stays long but he's not Duncan, he likes the lights, he's comfortable with medias and he wants to write history in a sport with a huge entertainment aspect.

It's not going to happen in SA guys and I won't blame him if he wants to leave in 7y or more for LA or NY with a nice trade helping the Spurs rebuild.

Still a lot of time to enjoy him as a Spur

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing, Victor has something domestic NBA superstars don't have - basically an entire major country to call his own in terms of dominating the discussion.

He doesn't need LA or NYC, he's already got Paris, tbh. He's also the type who reads Brandon Sanderson before knocking out at 9pm so I'm not sure he's more about the lights than just winning and getting paid.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing, Victor has something domestic NBA superstars don't have - basically an entire major country to call his own in terms of dominating the discussion.

He doesn't need LA or NYC, he's already got Paris, tbh. He's also the type who reads Brandon Sanderson before knocking out at 9pm so I'm not sure he's more about the lights than just winning and getting paid.

Victor when asked what he thought about being considered the best prospect of all time said that he was more interested in becoming the best of everything all time.

[vy65]

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing, Victor has something domestic NBA superstars don't have - basically an entire major country to call his own in terms of dominating the discussion.

He doesn't need LA or NYC, he's already got Paris, tbh. He's also the type who reads Brandon Sanderson before knocking out at 9pm so I'm not sure he's more about the lights than just winning and getting paid.

[Pauleta14]

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing, Victor has something domestic NBA superstars don't have - basically an entire major country to call his own in terms of dominating the discussion.

He doesn't need LA or NYC, he's already got Paris, tbh. He's also the type who reads Brandon Sanderson before knocking out at 9pm so I'm not sure he's more about the lights than just winning and getting paid.

Unfortunately we live in a era and it’s a business/sport where entertainment is a big factor in ppl perception. I’m not certain Wemby will enjoy national media ignoring him as much as Timmy did.

that doesn’t mean he’ll ask to live at 1st opportunity, but in 7-8 years it could be seen as a new challenge depending on how he’s treated.

again I’m leaning towards neither bc I find him difficult to read, much more than many seems to think imo

hes a very complex individual who I can’t see being satisfied long term of a « simple life » out of the LA/NY limelight.

Anyways we’ll see and we have plenty of season to enjoy before worrying about it. One thing is sure he’s not a quitter and will go as far as this challenge drives him. (Pop’s health or possible retirement could also be a factor for ex)

[exstatic]

Unfortunately we live in a era and it’s a business/sport where entertainment is a big factor in ppl perception. I’m not certain Wemby will enjoy national media ignoring him as much as Timmy did.

that doesn’t mean he’ll ask to live at 1st opportunity, but in 7-8 years it could be seen as a new challenge depending on how he’s treated.

again I’m leaning towards neither bc I find him difficult to read, much more than many seems to think imo

hes a very complex individual who I can’t see being satisfied long term of a « simple life » out of the LA/NY limelight.

Anyways we’ll see and we have plenty of season to enjoy before worrying about it. One thing is sure he’s not a quitter and will go as far as this challenge drives him. (Pop’s health or possible retirement could also be a factor for ex)

The media ignored Tim,because Tim basically ignored them. Wemby interacts with them at a level that no Spur really ever has, and even as a rookie on a losing team, he’s being fawned over and lionized.

[Cry Havoc]

Bro how is it Youngs fault that the Hawks have an incerdibly stupid front office? lol come on Mo!

It's wild that people want a defensive PG who's also elite at playmaking. We won 4 les with Tony and he was never a great defender, at best he had a few decent seasons on D.

Honestly defensive PGs are great but not entirely necessary -- it's FAR easier to surround a PG with 3 great to elite defenders and that works esp in the modern high octane offenses.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's wild that people want a defensive PG who's also elite at playmaking. We won 4 les with Tony and he was never a great defender, at best he had a few decent seasons on D.

Honestly defensive PGs are great but not entirely necessary -- it's FAR easier to surround a PG with 3 great to elite defenders and that works esp in the modern high octane offenses.

They want to skip the step of having to do something with Vassell given a defensive minus PG.

[Seventyniner]

It's wild that people want a defensive PG who's also elite at playmaking. We won 4 les with Tony and he was never a great defender, at best he had a few decent seasons on D.

Honestly defensive PGs are great but not entirely necessary -- it's FAR easier to surround a PG with 3 great to elite defenders and that works esp in the modern high octane offenses.

Tony wasn't an elite playmaker either.

Young's strength of passing ability, particularly lobs to bigs, meshes perfectly with Wemby, and Wemby is also the perfect counterpart to Young's biggest weakness (defense). The two of them can easily be more than the sum of the parts.

[DAF86]

Wemby strikes me as an old soul. He has a strict rutine, he reads, he goes to bed early, he doesn't interact much in social media, he was raging mad that Edwards didn't take the Skills challenge seriously. As a kid with an old man's mindset, I think he might embrace the "one team for life" mantra that old players used to have. He also knows that players that ask for trades to try to ring chase take a bit of a legacy hit, and he seems to take his legacy very seriously. If the Spurs don't up, I see Wemby being a Spur for life.

[DAF86]

It's wild that people want a defensive PG who's also elite at playmaking. We won 4 les with Tony and he was never a great defender, at best he had a few decent seasons on D.

Honestly defensive PGs are great but not entirely necessary -- it's FAR easier to surround a PG with 3 great to elite defenders and that works esp in the modern high octane offenses.

Nobody is asking for a defensive PG, just not a liability, which Young pretty much is. Tony was never a liability on D, in fact, pretty far from it.

[Cry Havoc]

Nobody is asking for a defensive PG, just not a liability, which Young pretty much is. Tony was never a liability on D, in fact, pretty far from it.

Okay, give me a list of PGs that are not liabilities on defense that are also >B+ playmakers? There are what, 3, in the entire league? All of whom are essentially untradeable?

Steph Curry has been a liability on defense most of his career and he's arguably the GOAT PG. We won a le with Tony not even being able to bring the ball up to the half court line against playoff defenses.

[DAF86]

Okay, give me a list of PGs that are not liabilities on defense that are also >B+ playmakers? There are what, 3, in the entire league? All of whom are essentially untradeable?

Steph Curry has been a liability on defense most of his career and he's arguably the GOAT PG. We won a le with Tony not even being able to bring the ball up to the half court line against playoff defenses.

Steph Curry being a liability on D is one of the most casual takes in NBA history. In his prime he was an above average defender for the PG position, a playmaker on that end too. Go check the metrics if you don't believe me.

Also, if Trae was anywhere close to Curry on offense, I wouldn't care about his horrific defense, but he isn't. Not even close.

[JeffDuncan]

Unfortunately we live in a era and it’s a business/sport where entertainment is a big factor in ppl perception. I’m not certain Wemby will enjoy national media ignoring him as much as Timmy did.
…

We also live in an era where the media is portable. Gear that can be used for professional quality tv work will fit in a single piece of carry on luggage. There’s no longer a need to go to a studio in LA or NY. The studio can come to you, almost anywhere in the world.

Beyond tv, there are people who do excellent youtube videos using a laptop, or even just a cellphone, including some impressive special effects. Things have changed.

Neither Wemby nor anybody else needs to be in LA or NY to do media work that can be broadcast nationwide and worldwide. So as far as media attention, Wemby could do a dozen tv interviews a day from the comfort of his own living room in San Antonio - not that that would be advisable.

[Cry Havoc]

Steph Curry being a liability on D is one of the most casual takes in NBA history. In his prime he was an above average defender for the PG position, a playmaker on that end too. Go check the metrics if you don't believe me.

In his prime, yes, he was decent on D.

Before that? Curry was a sieve, and he was skewered by Warriors fans for being problematic on that end (not that they cared at the end of the day because he was stupidly good, but he definitely gave warriors fans headaches on that end of the floor for years). I live in the Bay Area, I'm surrounded by Dubs fans, they would laugh at you if you said Curry was a good defender for most of his career.

Also, if Trae was anywhere close to Curry on offense, I wouldn't care about his horrific defense, but he isn't. Not even close.

No one is. But I'm still waiting for this list of PGs who are incredible playmakers, elite defensive players, and available for us to have a prayer to get. Heck, skip the "we might be able to obtain them" part, just show me elite PG playmakers that also play decent defense in the NBA?

[DAF86]

In his prime, yes, he was decent on D.

Before that? Curry was a sieve, and he was skewered by Warriors fans for being problematic on that end (not that they cared at the end of the day because he was stupidly good, but he definitely gave warriors fans headaches on that end of the floor for years). I live in the Bay Area, I'm surrounded by Dubs fans, they would laugh at you if you said Curry was a good defender for most of his career.



No one is. But I'm still waiting for this list of PGs who are incredible playmakers, elite defensive players, and available for us to have a prayer to get. Heck, skip the "we might be able to obtain them" part, just show me elite PG playmakers that also play decent defense in the NBA?

What part of "nobody is asking for elite defense" you are not getting? Heck, I'm not even asking for decent defense. I'm just asking for "not the second worst defender in the entire league" kind of defense, tbh.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/wor...ing-nba-player

Regarding which guards I'd rather have over Trae that might be available at the right price: Mitc , Garland and even Harden as a stopgap of two or three years (and yes, Harden is a much better defender than Young despite all the memes). Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry could be some other options. If not, I'd rather take my chances drafting someone or waiting to see which options become available next season.

Also, it doesn't necesarilly need to be a PG the perimeter creator we are looking for. It could be a wing and settle for a Derrick White type at the 1 (Sheppard could be an option).

[Chinook]

So now Victor has a "legacy complex" doctor Chinook ?

I'm not a person who beats around the bush. If I was saying Wemby has a legacy complex, I would've just said it. Recent Wemby discourse has been about whether he would butt heads with the front office or ask out because he doesn't want to lose. This whole thing is about his mindset, so don't try to selectively call me out for addressing that speculation. I don't know what Wemby's thinking, but I am accepting Windhorst's reporting and Woj's co-signing and allowing for the emotions folks are assigning to Victor and offering an alternate explanation.

There are zero indication as of now about what he would do nor what he really thinks of the situation. Even in a worst case scenario he'd still be smilling and carpe diem etc

You'll have a hard time convincing posters in this thread that Wemby's thoughts are all that opaque. They're perfectly happy to talk about dejected Wemby's seemed recently over the losses. If that can be admitted, then his elation over the recent wins is just as easy to ascribe. To say he's obviously upset about the losing but then try to hide your hat when it comes to how he feels about winning is not consistent. Posters will also point out that Wemby's actually a pretty open guy and will talk about his motivations freely. Accolades are important to him. That necessarily means he does care about how he's viewed. Is it a "legacy complex"? No idea. Time will tell there. That's why I didn't say that he had one. But is he already thinking about stuff like that to some extent? Yes. That seems clear.

However he's shown in a recent past that he was able to seperate emotions/relations and professional decisisons by changing twice teams each time bc he thought a few things prevented him from reaching his goals, even if he'd have been drafted whatever team he'd have been on.

Players can't change teams in the NBA like they can in other countries. In Europe, players can change teams any time they want so long as there is enough will. In the NBA, his contract is locked in. He'd have to demand a trade, which means subjecting himself to much more scrutiny than simply changing from one mid-level Euro team to another. It would mean him creating negative situations in an effort to get the Spurs to move him to a team that would be better positioned to win after a trade. It's actually a tall order, which is why the threat of him doing that has always been a remote concern.

I hope he stays long but he's not Duncan, he likes the lights, he's comfortable with medias and he wants to write history in a sport with a huge entertainment aspect.

It's not going to happen in SA guys and I won't blame him if he wants to leave in 7y or more for LA or NY with a nice trade helping the Spurs rebuild.

Still a lot of time to enjoy him as a Spur

I have negative interest in talking you out of your prediction for years in the future. I will say though that few of us are worried about Wemby leaving after his second contract. That's both because it's not all that likely with the DPE but more because most of the people who are worried about it are worried he'll leave much earlier than that. If his career path was like Kawhi but without the bull , I think a lot of Spurs fans would take the ring and the memories. If he does do that, it'll have nothing to do with whether they rebuilt in year two or went all-in though.

[Ariel]

Unfortunately we live in a era and it’s a business/sport where entertainment is a big factor in ppl perception. I’m not certain Wemby will enjoy national media ignoring him as much as Timmy did.

that doesn’t mean he’ll ask to live at 1st opportunity, but in 7-8 years it could be seen as a new challenge depending on how he’s treated.

again I’m leaning towards neither bc I find him difficult to read, much more than many seems to think imo

hes a very complex individual who I can’t see being satisfied long term of a « simple life » out of the LA/NY limelight.

Anyways we’ll see and we have plenty of season to enjoy before worrying about it. One thing is sure he’s not a quitter and will go as far as this challenge drives him. (Pop’s health or possible retirement could also be a factor for ex)

You have to be blind to claim that the media is ignoring / will ignore Wemby, he's going to be the face of the league, and he gets an insane amount of attention already as a rookie on a horrendous team. If the Spurs put together a competent team he'll receive 10x the attention Giannis and Luka get, combined. With that said, I don't like to admit that I have the same fear at heart, that one day Wemby will want to explore new challenges, even if not just for the attention. It also seems to me that the Knicks are built around trying to lure someone like Wemby away, that's what their whole model is built upon, putting together a really good supporting cast waiting for a superstar to join and lead them to a championship. Hopefully the Spurs are a great team for all of his rookie extension and that moment comes as late as possible, but I do believe it will come eventually, even though I hope I'm dead wrong.

[scott]

Recent Wemby discourse has been about whether he would butt heads with the front office or ask out because he doesn't want to lose.

Whereas, I believe the proper interpretation should be: Wemby doesn't want to lose, so he'll go to the front off and partner with them on ideas on how to turn it around together (at least that's more the vibe I get right now). Wemby is extremely mature, and I think mature enough to know how to professionally handle things in the way that are most likely to yield desired results.

I believe what Windhorst and Woj (and Lowe) are saying, but I don't think it's Wemby's team leaking to cause trouble. I bet Wemby has gone directly to the FO with this, and not in a necessarily adversarial way.

(This post not direct towards your thoughts, Chinook, just a reaction to this specific line).

[Pauleta14]

I'm not a person who beats around the bush. If I was saying Wemby has a legacy complex, I would've just said it. Recent Wemby discourse has been about whether he would butt heads with the front office or ask out because he doesn't want to lose. This whole thing is about his mindset, so don't try to selectively call me out for addressing that speculation. I don't know what Wemby's thinking, but I am accepting Windhorst's reporting and Woj's co-signing and allowing for the emotions folks are assigning to Victor and offering an alternate explanation.



You'll have a hard time convincing posters in this thread that Wemby's thoughts are all that opaque. They're perfectly happy to talk about dejected Wemby's seemed recently over the losses. If that can be admitted, then his elation over the recent wins is just as easy to ascribe. To say he's obviously upset about the losing but then try to hide your hat when it comes to how he feels about winning is not consistent. Posters will also point out that Wemby's actually a pretty open guy and will talk about his motivations freely. Accolades are important to him. That necessarily means he does care about how he's viewed. Is it a "legacy complex"? No idea. Time will tell there. That's why I didn't say that he had one. But is he already thinking about stuff like that to some extent? Yes. That seems clear.



Players can't change teams in the NBA like they can in other countries. In Europe, players can change teams any time they want so long as there is enough will. In the NBA, his contract is locked in. He'd have to demand a trade, which means subjecting himself to much more scrutiny than simply changing from one mid-level Euro team to another. It would mean him creating negative situations in an effort to get the Spurs to move him to a team that would be better positioned to win after a trade. It's actually a tall order, which is why the threat of him doing that has always been a remote concern.



I have negative interest in talking you out of your prediction for years in the future. I will say though that few of us are worried about Wemby leaving after his second contract. That's both because it's not all that likely with the DPE but more because most of the people who are worried about it are worried he'll leave much earlier than that. If his career path was like Kawhi but without the bull , I think a lot of Spurs fans would take the ring and the memories. If he does do that, it'll have nothing to do with whether they rebuilt in year two or went all-in though.

1st I’m not « calling u out » I’m just exchanging my pov with other ppl who share the same interest in Wemby and the spurs. Why not try to not always take stuff personally?

2nd you did say Wemby « may have a legacy complex »… but whatever it’s not the point I was just teasing u. Relax

3rd I think you’re confusing instant reaction to losses or wins and long term plans in his mind that none of us has access to.
Wemby being opened doesn’t mean he’s transparent which would be stupid to be and he’s far from being an idiot.
i don’t see how enjoying the present process, being occasionally upset or joyful ha anything to do with his long term plans.

4th I’m aware NBA trades aren’t like football (soccer) transfers, thx, but even without conflict if he request a trade after let’s say 7-8y so that Spurs get something in return (I can’t see him leaving at end of contract that’s be move/not him), it’s not an absurde scenario if he wants to start a new challenge for ex in NY, closer to Europe with better game time hours and massive media impact…

Lastly I haven’t made any prediction you need to agree or disagree on. Just thinking out loud with a few facts… no need to use other posters’s pov in our exchange

[Pauleta14]

You have to be blind to claim that the media is ignoring / will ignore Wemby, he's going to be the face of the league, and he gets an insane amount of attention already as a rookie on a horrendous team. If the Spurs put together a competent team he'll receive 10x the attention Giannis and Luka get, combined. With that said, I don't like to admit that I have the same fear at heart, that one day Wemby will want to explore new challenges, even if not just for the attention. It also seems to me that the Knicks are built around trying to lure someone like Wemby away, that's what their whole model is built upon, putting together a really good supporting cast waiting for a superstar to join and lead them to a championship. Hopefully the Spurs are a great team for all of his rookie extension and that moment comes as late as possible, but I do believe it will come eventually, even though I hope I'm dead wrong.

ignoring is too strong, but journalists aren’t excited to come to SA let’s not pretend it doesn’t matter…

just take what Wemby already did and imagine if he did it with the lakers or the Knicks… it would be 10 times the buzz there is today.

AGAIN I didn’t do any prediction, I pointed my agnosticism actually and the fact that having certainty one way or another was stupid bc none can really read him and his past actions can be used for both scenarios

i have no worries short term tho (4-5 years at least)

Pop staying might end up being key imo

[ambchang]

Have any of these national media guys ever uttered another team in regard to Wemby? I haven't heard it. Someone claimed Windhorst said "Wemby would be a perfect fit in LA" and then pointed to an article where no such thing was ever said (and, let's face it, Wemby would be a perfect fit on any team).

National media types questioning the Front Office is just the cost of the spotlight. Look at The Yankees or Cowboys in any given year (Teams that actually haven't done anything of late to deserve the attention). This is the kind of scrutiny that occurs in big markets every year. When they talk about "not such if so-and-so could handle the New York/wherever media" - this is what they are talking about. Non-stop scrutiny and analysis, not just every couple of weeks but after EVERY SINGLE GAME. The Local Spurs media doesn't do that, in part because the Spurs don't like it and you'll lose access (at least according to friend of mine who is a former local TV Sports director who works in another market now).

The talking heads discussing the way the Spurs have built around Wemby is the easiest, no-brainer topic for them to tackle... and they are seeing that Wemby is going to be the face, so they need reasons to talk about him. This is just the way to take it out of the highlight shows and into the talking-head shows.

Still didn’t get the guys part meaning mainstream media. But since you haven’t heard it and is too lazy to do any research to debunk your own agenda for getting Trae young, here you go:

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-analys...ext-five-years
https://hoopshabit.com/2023/06/25/vi...-lakers-spurs/

[Chinook]

1st I’m not « calling u out » I’m just exchanging my pov with other ppl who share the same interest in Wemby and the spurs. Why not try to not always take stuff personally?

It's not about taking things personally. It's about me addressing a line of argument that I don't think is reasonable.

3rd I think you’re confusing instant reaction to losses or wins and long term plans in his mind that none of us has access to.
Wemby being opened doesn’t mean he’s transparent which would be stupid to be and he’s far from being an idiot.
i don’t see how enjoying the present process, being occasionally upset or joyful ha anything to do with his long term plans.

People have used his reaction to this season to predict long-term effects. This isn't isolated to this forum (though non-Spurs fans are way less inclined to believe the Spurs have to build quickly from my experience), as the original post of this thread shows. What I'm saying is if those reactions can be said to suggest anything long term, it doesn't point to him being a flight risk. Windhorst reported on Wemby's mindset, so while we don't KNOW what's in Victor's head, this isn't a black box situation. We're talking about rumors, what level of weight we assign to those rumors, and the hypothetical effects of those being true, which is normal for a sports forum.

4th I’m aware NBA trades aren’t like football (soccer) transfers, thx, but even without conflict if he request a trade after let’s say 7-8y so that Spurs get something in return (I can’t see him leaving at end of contract that’s be move/not him), it’s not an absurde scenario if he wants to start a new challenge for ex in NY, closer to Europe with better game time hours and massive media impact…

NBA trades aren't like other basketball leagues, not just other sports. You're welcome. It's important to understand he doesn't have the same autonomy here and thus would be subject to much more criticism if he left any time within the next few years. Beyond that, I think you're talking about a time beyond where this thread and the ESPN folks are talking about. That doesn't make your view invalid. It just means it's its own thing. If we're talking about how Wemby might leave in year seven or eight, the Spurs will have had plenty of time to make something happen by then no matter which path to rebuilding they take.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Still didn’t get the guys part meaning mainstream media. But since you haven’t heard it and is too lazy to do any research to debunk your own agenda for getting Trae young, here you go:

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-analys...ext-five-years
https://hoopshabit.com/2023/06/25/vi...-lakers-spurs/

Keyshawn Johnson and a random tweet