Does Jokic still have the ability to reach Timmy Duncan career level influence?

[Dex]

His game and stats have already well exceed Timmy tbh.

If he has 4 rings as well then Timmy will be surely ranked below him.

Tim has 5 rings over three decades, and more accolades to boast (All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defense, ROY, etc)

Jokic has 1 ring so far. Stat-wise, you can say Jokic is the better passer but worse defender.

This really shouldn't even be a topic of conversation until Jokic hits 4 rings, at least.

[Ice009]

Tim has 5 rings over three decades, and more accolades to boast (All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defense, ROY, etc)

Jokic has 1 ring so far. Stat-wise, you can say Jokic is the better passer but worse defender.

This really shouldn't even be a topic of conversation until Jokic hits 4 rings, at least.

Yeah, all solid points. I agree.

I will add, I just hope one day Victor is in this conversation. The kid has a chance to be that great. I really do believe in him.

And one other thing, I don't follow Jokic closely enough at all, but does he actually work as hard on his game as some of the greats did? It kind of bothers me with some of the stories I heard in past off-seasons that he drinks beer and does his cart horse racing or whatever you call it (I have no problem with him doing this if he's still working hard on his basketball skills), I feel to be the best, you really have to push yourself to the edge/limit. If he doesn't (again, I don't know his work ethic), I kind of feel like he's cheating if he's just going out there and playing carefree and doing all this. I just can't fathom that if that is what he's doing.

[LeBowen]

And one other thing, I don't follow Jokic closely enough at all, but does he actually work as hard on his game as some of the greats did? It kind of bothers me with some of the stories I heard in past off-seasons that he drinks beer and does his cart horse racing or whatever you call it (I have no problem with him doing this if he's still working hard on his basketball skills), I feel to be the best, you really have to push yourself to the edge/limit. If he doesn't (again, I don't know his work ethic), I kind of feel like he's cheating if he's just going out there and playing carefree and doing all this. I just can't fathom that if that is what he's doing.

That's just mainstream media nonsense because Jokic is the closest thing to Timmy if we talk personality. They can't digest that the best player in the league is someone who gives zero s about what anyone thinks.
Just look at his minutes and usage, he's one of the most durable players in the league.
This season his front office and role players let him down. He was supposed to do literally everything on offense, but he's not a perimeter player that could get some rest on defense, got gassed and it was just too much.
Not a great defender, but he'd be solid if he didn't have such high usage on offense.

For me he's one of the best offensive players ever because he can do everything and gets his elite playmaking numbers without needing to pound the ball for 10 seconds every possession. He's got a similar number of touches to other MVP candidates, but like half the time on the ball. Timberwolves built a roster to counter the Nuggets while Nuggets had Deandre's corpse as the only backup big, just inexcusable.

With that being said, he's not close to Duncan.

[SPURt]

Denver’s roster is pretty stuck. I don’t see how they improve much. The wolves could be even better next year. So I think we saw the nuggets at their peak last year.

Jokic will still be great, but he’ll never be on Duncan’s level. That’s nothing to be ashamed of. There are only 10 or so players in NBA history on Duncan’s level.

This right here

[MultiTroll]

Tim has 5 rings over three decades, and more accolades to boast (All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defense, ROY, etc)

Jokic has 1 ring so far. Stat-wise, you can say Jokic is the better passer but worse defender.

This really shouldn't even be a topic of conversation until Jokic hits 4 rings, at least.

Has Jokic had teamates the equal of Manu GNob, Parker, Kwa Leonard and role players like Super Bob Horry?
All on the same team?
I don't think so.

[ismael-robert]

I'm curious what a healthy Vlatco Cankar can bring

[MultiTroll]

I'm curious what a healthy Vlatco Cankar can bring

Nice find.
I didn't even notice Vlatco last season.
60 games 15 min per game.

[TD 21]

Flawed premise. If you believe he had it beforehand, one game at age 29 shouldn't change anything.

He's got a decent chance to finish around Duncan, but he's going to need at least one more championship and probably two.

Stat geeks will probably favor him in the end anyway, but a lot of players in this era have inflated stats (counting and advanced) due to a game and rules that now prioritize and cater to it (for sure, players are more skilled in general too), unlike previous generations.

I'll always give the edge to Duncan though because if all else is close enough, I prefer my center by an elite defensive anchor first and foremost.

[Ice009]

That's just mainstream media nonsense because Jokic is the closest thing to Timmy if we talk personality. They can't digest that the best player in the league is someone who gives zero s about what anyone thinks.
Just look at his minutes and usage, he's one of the most durable players in the league.
This season his front office and role players let him down. He was supposed to do literally everything on offense, but he's not a perimeter player that could get some rest on defense, got gassed and it was just too much.
Not a great defender, but he'd be solid if he didn't have such high usage on offense.

For me he's one of the best offensive players ever because he can do everything and gets his elite playmaking numbers without needing to pound the ball for 10 seconds every possession. He's got a similar number of touches to other MVP candidates, but like half the time on the ball. Timberwolves built a roster to counter the Nuggets while Nuggets had Deandre's corpse as the only backup big, just inexcusable.

With that being said, he's not close to Duncan.

Yeah, you could be right. It's just the stories about his off-season, I don't hear much about him training/working on his game that has my opinion skewed a bit.

Like TD21 said, if all else is close, I still prefer my big man to be an elite defender over an elite offensive player. I'd take TDs great defense defense along with his very good offense compared to Jokic's great offense and average defense.

Both great players. It's too bad there's not many elite big men around so we can actually see what kind of defense Jokic could play if he had to focus on guarding other great big men (centers and power forwards) like TD did.

[Tyronn Lue]

This again. Players aren't chasing each other. They are all carving out their own legacies. The faces on Rushmore aren't in compe ion. Tim isn't in compe ion with Joker.

[Tyronn Lue]

Has Jokic had teamates the equal of Manu GNob, Parker, Kwa Leonard and role players like Super Bob Horry?
All on the same team?
I don't think so.

Players build their resumes in synch with the development of all time greats. When it's all said and done, some of the players on Denver's team could be HOFers that are currently not in that conversation. When that happens, people will use that to detract from Jokic's greatness "well he had other HOFers with him".

[MultiTroll]

Has Jokic had teamates the equal of Manu GNob, Parker, Kwa Leonard and role players like Super Bob Horry?
All on the same team?
I don't think so.

Players build their resumes in synch with the development of all time greats. When it's all said and done, some of the players on Denver's team could be HOFers that are currently not in that conversation. When that happens, people will use that to detract from Jokic's greatness "well he had other HOFers with him".

Nooo.
Bob Horry had already sank clutch Championship shots for Houston and the Flamers.
Kwa Leonard went on to lead Toronto to a Chip. (with plenty of great mentoring prior from Duncan and the Spurs).
GNob i believe would have been a multi year legit All Star on any team, including potential Chip teams.
Parker maybe not soo much but still All Star potential for sure.

If some of Denvers current support team reaches the above Spurs level well great. I don't see it happening. Jomal Murray off to a good start.

Duncan still light years ahead of Joker.

[Mr. Body]

With the new CBA, keeping teams together will become extremely hard. I think we're just now seeing how difficult it will be. Boston, Minny, all these teams are going to face cold hard reality in a year or so. Making it worse, moving expensive players will be even harder. Used to be you could push an expensive contract onto a bad team with cap room, but teams will become more wary of doing this.

[OldMan88]

No comparison to Duncan. Tim played & won championships across 3 eras of NBA basketball when every time the Spurs won, the NBA changed the rules to take away whatever advantage the Spurs exploited to win. Yet he was able to adapt his game to remain dominant even though his body was failing him. He had 2 great wingmen and some great role players along the way. Tim’s game was more balanced than Jokic’s, and Jokic seems to follow Babe Ruth’s training regimen.

[Pero]

Yeah, all solid points. I agree.

I will add, I just hope one day Victor is in this conversation. The kid has a chance to be that great. I really do believe in him.

And one other thing, I don't follow Jokic closely enough at all, but does he actually work as hard on his game as some of the greats did? It kind of bothers me with some of the stories I heard in past off-seasons that he drinks beer and does his cart horse racing or whatever you call it (I have no problem with him doing this if he's still working hard on his basketball skills), I feel to be the best, you really have to push yourself to the edge/limit. If he doesn't (again, I don't know his work ethic), I kind of feel like he's cheating if he's just going out there and playing carefree and doing all this. I just can't fathom that if that is what he's doing.

I don't understand what you're saying. Dude just got his 3rd MVP, what does it matter if he works out or not, if he's that good? How is that cheating? That's kind of like saying Wembanyama is cheating because he's 7' 4'' tall. He didn't have to work for it after all. Unless you were joking or something haha.

[Thomas82]

No comparison to Duncan. Tim played & won championships across 3 eras of NBA basketball when every time the Spurs won, the NBA changed the rules to take away whatever advantage the Spurs exploited to win. Yet he was able to adapt his game to remain dominant even though his body was failing him. He had 2 great wingmen and some great role players along the way. Tim’s game was more balanced than Jokic’s, and Jokic seems to follow Babe Ruth’s training regimen.

Cosign!!

[Ice009]

I don't understand what you're saying. Dude just got his 3rd MVP, what does it matter if he works out or not, if he's that good? How is that cheating? That's kind of like saying Wembanyama is cheating because he's 7' 4'' tall. He didn't have to work for it after all. Unless you were joking or something haha.

Well half and half. I always absolutely believed to be the best, you have to work your ass off. If he doesn't, I find it hard to believe (can't fathom it) he's able to be as good as he is. Tim, Kobe, MJ, Lebron, all of these guys worked their asses off. If Jokic isn't, I'm sort of saying I'm amazed that he's able to what he's doing out there. I've never seen anyone not put in a ton of work and rack up MVPs. It's crazy is what I'm saying. To be that good and not put in the work to get there, it feels like cheating. Having said that, since I don't follow him, I wanted to know if those stories don't tell the whole story. Yeah, he might do the cart horse racing (I don't know the correct term/name for this) and drink beer, but he also might actually spend a decent amount of time working on his game, so I was curious if anyone has read that he does actually put the work in while doing those other activities, or at some point later in the off-season, maybe he starts training his ass off?

[Pero]

Well half and half. I always absolutely believed to be the best, you have to work your ass off. If he doesn't, I find it hard to believe (can't fathom it) he's able to be as good as he is. Tim, Kobe, MJ, Lebron, all of these guys worked their asses off. If Jokic isn't, I'm sort of saying I'm amazed that he's able to what he's doing out there. I've never seen anyone not put in a ton of work and rack up MVPs. It's crazy is what I'm saying. To be that good and not put in the work to get there, it feels like cheating. Having said that, since I don't follow him, I wanted to know if those stories don't tell the whole story. Yeah, he might do the cart horse racing (I don't know the correct term/name for this) and drink beer, but he also might actually spend a decent amount of time working on his game, so I was curious if anyone has read that he does actually put the work in while doing those other activities, or at some point later in the off-season, maybe he starts training his ass off?

Maybe I'm getting you better now. I still think it shouldn't matter haha. IIRC he wasn't taking training seriously till the off-season before the season he got his first MVP. I can't remember why but something clicked in his head that time and he decided he has to become more serious about it, so he trained a lot, lost weight and got himself in great shape... Then ended up becoming the MVP. Pretty sure he's taking it seriously now, though I really doubt he's anything close to a training maniac like Kobe. Dude is probably just one of the most talented players in history. Oh yeah, years back I saw a clip of Inside The NBA on TNT where they were asking him how come he's getting to games in suits now and he said that at some point it hit him that this is his job and so he should act like it, be professional, show that he's taking it seriously and get himself in the mindset as well. But it's clear baskteball is just one part of his life to him and not everything.