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The argument is that it’s highly unlikely that a Center is the BPA at 9
You're undercutting your own argument TiMVP. Consider the heading "The Spurs Shouldn’t Worry About Fit"... I suspect that just about all of us agree that the Spurs should be picking BPA. The question is who is that? It's pretty much a matter of assessing how much of their potential each young player is going to achieve. If they think Duren or Williams will achieve close to their peak potential ( I see that at some sort of Dwight/Bam hybrid and Gorbert + some offense, respectively), then that's pretty much certain that either Duren or Williams should be the pick at 9. If they think Dieng will be the guy to achieve his peak potential, then Dieng should be the pick...
The argument is that it’s highly unlikely that a Center is the BPA at 9
We have a top 10 center in the league and besides Jokic there isn’t a better center in the whole western conference than Poeltl
I don't want yet another middling guard.
Sure, if there is a guard there with all-star potential at 9, sure. But no more 6'5 likely career role players.
Denver had their 2nd and 3rd best players injured. We can't judge them fairly and say they were not all they should be bc their best player is Jokic. Philly had injuries in the middle of the playoffs and Embiid was out for several games, and then when he returned, he played with serious injuries. Of course they had no chance without him, but it's the same situation for any other team in the playoffs without their best player, or even their second best player. Maybe you can survive a game or two that way, but no way you win an entire series or win it all without all your horses. It happened to the Grizzlies as well, who couldn't reach their best possible outcome once Ja got injured either. Mavs without Doncic, or even their second best player also don't go far. Yea, you can survive a couple of games if you need to, but not a series, and certainly can't win it all that way. So I think Denver and Philadelphia were affected by injuries just as much as Milwaukee without Middleton was, etc.
Just draft the best talent. Picking a center over any other lottery-worthy position is not drafting the best talent in the 2022 version of the nba.
KAT (even though I am not a fan) eats Jakob cookies for breakfast, Jaren Jackson who swings between PF and C also eats Jakob for breakfast, Pelicans Valanciunas hangs 20/10 getting out of bed on Jakob, etc.
He's not this guy that people expect two firsts for. He's not getting a package similar to White, specially because he's on the last year of his deal, and there are other centers available, whether in the draft, through trades, or even a few FA.
He's a good player, don't get me wrong, but it's dishonest to say that centers are not valued that highly in today's NBA and then expect a haul for Jakob. For this reason it's most likely the Spurs keep him.
Also, if someone has a treasure chest of trade assets, are they going to spend that on Jakob? Think about it.
If SA can truly move Jakob to someone like CHA for 13 and/or 15 they should do it. They need to keep moving the team forward from a max value perspective. If you arent going to make trades/land FA to move the team closer to PO and you dont see yourself wanting to pay someone their value due to where team is at, move them before value plummets due to forced hand.
Another thing to keep in mind, spurs always do well evaluating late round guys. If they think a guy like Max Christie or Marjon Beauchamp could be better than those guards going around 9, why not invest is another position of need? Be Real Jonas Valanicunas made Jakob his in that play in game we need an upgrade there lol
I'm looking at the Duren highlights and he reminds me a lot of Stromile Swift.
Are you saying you're not into the "13 and 15 for Jak" cult?
Some people want to dump Jak then expect the moon in return. Why trading Jak if he's that worthy then? Because of his contract? Well it would be the same for any other team.
You realize how flawed this logic is, right ? There are tons of trades all the time - teams obviously don’t value guys exactly the same. Team needs and situations differ and thus their willingness to pay or value a player.
If everyone valued things the “same for any other team” there would never be trades and especially not lopsided trades.
just watched some too and he's def my guy. Love his atlheticism, energy and fire. Dude is an alley-oop machine, Murray would love him. He'll quickly give you 10 & 10 plus a couple blocks a game. Totally different player than Jak. he's stil a bit raw but only 18 and Im' sure he could develop some post up game, shoot mechanics are OK. Spurs need that contagious energy, you know guys who dunk like they wanted to hurt you.
I wouldn’t be frustrated if they picked Duren. It’s always fun to see our athletic big dunking, instead of being dunked on. AND specially because Coach Larry Brown was high on Duren. He must know something.
On the other hand, there’s Myles Turner who could be available. Ideally you trade Poeltl with either 20/25 and fillers to get him, and then use the 9 for the BPA instead, preferably Davis or Sochan. I rather do that scenario better.
One thing I do wonder…. It’s not in the Spurs DNA but do they maybe eventually draft certain guys to Appease Dejounte? Last year he posted that infamous pic that reacted to the spurs drafting Primo.
Man if the spurs could come away from the draft with Myles Turner, Johnny Davis, and like Max Christie I’d be over the fcking moon
The problem with that is that in this draft, after about the first 3 positions, just about everyone in the draft has either a) significant flaws in their game, b) is unlikely to reach their potential or c) is considered to have a low ceiling... If they think either of Duren or Williams has a significant chance of achieving their ceiling, then it's actually pretty like that they are the BPA. Tallest guy in a land of midgets isn't all that high of bar to clear.
No ? Thanks for the update about how trades are working..
The point is precisely that spurs do need to put a center on the floor every night, you know. And that, considering there's no other equally valuable alternative on the team right now, why trade him if he's as good as some people value him and then so valuable to the team? Not like he was redundant with another player... You get the REAL flawed logic there?
And that sometiems the same guys who don't want to draft a center.
The other alternative is that he isn't as good a some value him in a possible trade... Even the dumbest GM wouldn't ever give you 13 and 15 for Jak nor Jak + a pack of meh players. As I aleready said, Jak dosen't move the needle enough in any team that would justify giving really valuable assets away for him, there's plenty other alternatives.
That is your opinion. Hes very good, but SA isn’t even a PO team. But him being really good on a team that is already a PO team or really close and needing a C? Makes sense.
Spurs can put any C on the floor, they arent a contender so its not like downgrading that position, especially if you receive great value for him, functionally hurts the team. They are same level with or without him more or less unless their plan is to significantly add talent at PF to win now
Not really sure this is what we need but damn would be so fun to watch DJ play with a Stro Show type player. give me drunk Keon Clark off the bench.
Yup. I am not attached to Jakob and really would like the Spurs to do something similar to what they did with White and turn him into assets, and make a move for someone with a higher ceiling. Ayton is someone I have mentioned, but wouldn't mind picking up Duren or Williams, and someone else as RC Drunkford suggests.
The problem is that I think the Spurs are not getting a White-like haul for Jakob. If they were, the Spurs would have traded him already I believe. The rumors leaked from other teams is that the Spurs were asking too much. So there we have it.
Timvp himself is proponent of a contradiction. On the one hand he says the center position is devalued and not worth investing a lot on, and on the other he says Jakob can fetch at least a White-like return: a first round pick, a future first round swap, a legitimate rotation player, and a prospect. That only perpetuates the fan expectation like you say.
White was dealt to a playoff team that knew him well (surely coach Ime had input at least vouching for him). It was a win now move, where they went all in for a le (they didn't get it but were close). White was also in a cost controlled deal. Whether he's overpaid or not, he was a fixed cost, and even if he exploded and looked like their third best player for the playoffs, (bc we know White has been shooting under his percentages, and he is capable of short streaks of hot shooting) he would still be under contract, and not a risk to be gone that summer. That certainty has value as well.
Jakob on the last season of his deal is not the same thing. He's due a raise, and can leave in the summer to some team that offers him more, or has him in a role he likes, etc. There is more that I can say about it, but I don't think he's worth a haul. He's worth something, at least a first round pick I'd say, but not a haul, and him being a one year rental, maybe to some teams he's not worth the risk of leaving in FA either after giving up assets for him.
Last edited by SAGirl; 06-20-2022 at 01:36 PM.
Underrated view. Jak makes us a play-in contender, that’s how bad we are. I like him and admire how much he has grown. I also think DJ spoon fed him on the offensive end all year. If you can get a first and another asset it isnworth considering versus having to pay/risking losing him next off-season.
Jak is our second most important player and he is on 9 million a year . The dude does winning things that don’t show up on the stat sheet. KAT was the lead dog on a losing team. They are only winning bc of Ant not bc of Towns. Jak does all the things Towns refuses to do, he sets hard screens, guards on both the post and the perimeter, and gets dirty. Towns is a pansy of a big man who just wants to jack up jumpers all day. In a vacuum Towns is the better player but in reality, Jak plays winning basketball and Towns plays like a wuss.
JJJ is injured all the time and is more focused on a twitter beef with Klay Thompson than winning games. Plus they are paying him $26 million dollars a year to score 4 more points a game and rebound at a lesser rate than Jak. Both are plus defenders but 4 more points, more shots while giving less rebounds and assists isn’t enough to say he is a better player than Jak.
That can all be true (I dont think it is) and it still not change the point. We had Jak and we see where we are at. He is damn good and if you can get damn good value you should because even with him, SA is not doing anything right now.
Now, if SA has a plan to use their massive trove of assets to leap this team to a legit PO team? Sure, keeping him makes sense. But unless you are doing that, its hard not to make case for trading him (assuming of course you get something worth it. You dont just dump him to dump him)
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