Jeremy Sochan: Future Elite Role Player or Future Star?

[Chomag]

This would have been the Perfect time to have Chip....damn...

[LeBowen]

Kobe, MJ, Garnet to name a few

Lmao Kobe.
He developed on both ends of the floor naturally. He didn't become a 25ppg scorer and then learned to play defense.
It took him a couple of years to become a high level starter, even.
I'm talking about lottery talent that will come in and average 20ppg+ in their rookie season while obviously being polished on offense, but have low IQ players.

I respect your opinion, but the game of basketball is putting the ball in the hoops first. More often your best scorer beats your best defender, and it would take team defense to stop a great scorer. I’d start with a scorer first and try to make him a better defender than the other way around, just for arguments sake.

Yeah, it's about putting the ball in the hoop...except that every single championship team over the past 15 or so years was led by one or two elite two-way players, with Steph being the obvious exception.
But he's an exception in everything, so you can't take him as a norm.

Everyone else's best players were also elite defenders: Giannis-Jrue, Lebron-AD, nephew-Siakam-Lowry, then back to nephew-Duncan etc.
Warriors lost to Lebron because their defense wasn't good enough and their only elite defender got himself suspended.

Everyone can become a better defender, but it's way harder and less common for bad defenders to become elite. Can't teach stuff like lateral movement, size and wingspan. Some players just can't do it.

Worst case scenario, obviously barring any injuries, Sochan becomes a parennial 1st team defense, while being a solid passer and secondary playmaker who can hit a shot here and there.
How many of those can you find in the league? While almost every single team has someone who's a great scorer or has the tools to get there.
We already have two guys who will surely develop into 25ppg scorers and Devin is also a good defender.
Ever since nephew ed us over, we desperately needed someone who's going to prevent opposing wings from torching us game in and game out. Jeremy is that guy and will be for many years to come.

But yeah, I agree, we need a playmaker now. I like Tre, his IQ is great, but he's just too undersized and has no range. Will be a good backup for playoff teams, but nothing more.
Imo, if we acquire a potentailly all-star PG, we're more or less good to go and no more tanking is needed.

[Larry O]

Listening to opposing play-by-play announcers and commenters, they immediately notice the hair and the number 10, and immediately associate him with Rodman. So, Sochan's persona, in that regard, has that immediate impact on others, perhaps with the players included. Hearing that he has the knack of being a pest and a trash talker on the court as well. If he can improve on his 3 point shooting, as well as other aspects of his game, I can see him not becoming just only a Spurs fan favorite, but he can also garner attention around the league for his playing style and growing reputation as a "Rodman-lite" player, with potential to possibly exceed him, in other ways, minus the drama. I believe he has the potential to elevate himself to "Star Status." Today's NBA seems to like "character colorization" and drama, and Sohan seems to fit that mold.

[slick'81]

Dude has all the tools just needs pop to stick around and mold him

[daslicer]

It could take 4-5 years of hard work before he can be a star. Remember Kawhi didn't make it to his first all-star game until 2016. There will be a lot of growing pains with Sochan. I think at worst he will be an elite role player at best he can be an all-star.

[poopbox]

Will be a super utility player. I doubt he ever has the offense to be a future star. I doubt he even wants to shoot that much.

[The Truth #6]

If not shooting, then his rebounds and stocks need to improve for atypical star status, with the assumption that his scoring improves somehow, likely through backdowns and going coast to coast.

[lefty20]

Calling Peak Draymond a star was sure to result in a heavy debate no matter which forum or platform u did it on. That's Jeremy's ceiling rn, imo.

If he can add a couple of consistent ways to get buckets then we'll talk about potential S om. He's got a lot of work to do on that end, like a of a ing lot.

So I'm voting ERP. I hope he proves me wrong.

[BackHome]

I see a little of Green and Diaw in him as far as who he will be well that is TBD - Only thing I want from him now is to continue working on his craft and I love Pop giving him PG duties that will definitely help with his growth. I just wish we had Chip but I am sure they are other very good shooting coaches out there just get with who ever been working with Kelldon this past summer.

[daslicer]

I see a little of Green and Diaw in him as far as who he will be well that is TBD - Only thing I want from him now is to continue working on his craft and I love Pop giving him PG duties that will definitely help with his growth. I just wish we had Chip but I am sure they are other very good shooting coaches out there just get with who ever been working with Kelldon this past summer.

Ultimately it comes down to work ethic. I remember hearing Jason Kidd in an interview talk about how he was terrible 3-point shooter at the start of his career but by the end of his career became a good shooter. He said the way he turned it around is that later on his career he decided to focus on shooting for hours before and after games and that it eventually paid off. If Sochan has the work ethic, then he will be able to fix his shooting problems.

[TD 21]

Question: many people here were skeptic of taking Sochan at no. 9, for many reasons: perceived lack of athleticism, poor shooting, and no. 9 being too high a pick to take a role player with supposedly limited potential. How do you feel about it now, with what we've seen? is he the best option available at no. 9? of those taken before him, how many would you take over him?
Me: he was always one of my favorite options at no. 9, and I'd still take him there. Other than Banchero and Ivey, there's no one I'd take clearly over him, with Mathurin (who was my other option then) and Sharpe (who I was very wary of and proved his upside is real) being the ones I'd also consider in a do over (but neither were available, so).

I feel exactly the same way. He looks like what I expected, which is underwhelming (the rebounding is pathetic and even the much-ballyhooed ball handling/passing for his position are more so par for the course than standout the way they would have been prior to this era), both relative to draft slot and team needs.

But then, I didn't particularly like any option at 9 all that much and when Branham fell to 20 and to a lesser extent Wesley at 25, I was fine with the draft.

[exstatic]

Kobe, MJ, Garnet to name a few

I respect your opinion, but the game of basketball is putting the ball in the hoops first. More often your best scorer beats your best defender, and it would take team defense to stop a great scorer. I’d start with a scorer first and try to make him a better defender than the other way around, just for arguments sake.

Most players think the way you do, which is why it’s difficult to turn a scorer into a top flight defender. Those three players you listed were all good defenders already, and just needed some polishing.

[exstatic]

It could take 4-5 years of hard work before he can be a star. Remember Kawhi didn't make it to his first all-star game until 2016. There will be a lot of growing pains with Sochan. I think at worst he will be an elite role player at best he can be an all-star.

Kawhi won the FMVP after his 3rd year. It took a while for the media to catch on, but he had already arrived.

[exstatic]

Calling Peak Draymond a star was sure to result in a heavy debate no matter which forum or platform u did it on. That's Jeremy's ceiling rn, imo.

If he can add a couple of consistent ways to get buckets then we'll talk about potential S om. He's got a lot of work to do on that end, like a of a ing lot.

So I'm voting ERP. I hope he proves me wrong.

I think the comparisons to Draymond aren’t that great. His creativity is in the half court, and usually from the top of the circle, more like Poeltl than Sochan. If Sochan starts operating off the bounce, and running the pick and roll, his ceiling becomes much higher.

[Uriel]

He's a hybrid of Boris Diaw and Draymond Green. Of course he's going to be a star.

[wildbill2u]

Thinking about "elite defense first" guards and came up with Gary Payton and Patrick Beverley. Can anyone come up with some others? I just don't see Sochan being able to play PF over the long haul with his slight frame. Right now we can't shift him to SF because we need KJ on the floor there.

[exstatic]

Thinking about "elite defense first" guards and came up with Gary Payton and Patrick Beverley. Can anyone come up with some others? I just don't see Sochan being able to play PF over the long haul with his slight frame. Right now we can't shift him to SF because we need KJ on the floor there.

He’s a rookie, and 19
And
He’s not that ing slight
And
It’s not 1995. He’s as big at the other PFs on the squad.

All that being said, it would be ing amazing to have a 6’9” PG.

[exstatic]

Thinking about "elite defense first" guards and came up with Gary Payton and Patrick Beverley. Can anyone come up with some others? I just don't see Sochan being able to play PF over the long haul with his slight frame. Right now we can't shift him to SF because we need KJ on the floor there.

JKidd and MJ were both 9x all D, and MJ won a DPOY.

[ambchang]

Thinking about "elite defense first" guards and came up with Gary Payton and Patrick Beverley. Can anyone come up with some others? I just don't see Sochan being able to play PF over the long haul with his slight frame. Right now we can't shift him to SF because we need KJ on the floor there.

Walt Frazier comes to mind. Dennis Johnson. John Stockton was very underrated as a defender because he was so dirty. Rondo was good but somewhat overrated. CP3 is there somewhere just based on accolades but I always thought he was overrated on d. Maurice cheeks was pretty darn good too.

[B1gduff]

How about pascal Siakam? From what I've seen out of Sochan, he had more upside on offense than green ever did.

[timvp]

Good thread.

I saw Sochan's ceiling before the draft as him being a super elite role player or like the third best player on a championship team.

Now? I think there are more right tail and left tail outcomes. So far he's even a worse shooter than advertised so there's a chance he never learns to shoot at all (not even like a 30% three-point shooter) and basically becomes a more coordinated Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. But if this point guard stuff is for real, Sochan's ultimate, ultimate upside could be as a biggie Scottie Pippen

[rankingtear]

Yeah even before the draft Vecenie the athletic draft guy stated he has different paths to all star player outcome. He is definitely a top tier development piece and perfect fit for a development team like us. That shot is not a deal breaker if he can be a primary initiator at that size. He has star equity in multiple development paths because of that deep playoff level versatility on defense.

[Mr. Body]

I feel like he'll get his shot in better shape, but it's not great at this point.

But if he's both able to facilitate, whether as primary or secondary, AND guard perimeter players without fall-off, then the potential of these big line-ups that are perhaps more perfected than we saw last night opens up. You need to find the right pieces, but it gets intriguing.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

[tbdog]

Way to early and our team is way to crap to see it come together. He isn't a great athlete, so he has more work to do to become that elite role player.