So who else is going to watch Bush's speech tonight?

[JoeChalupa]

So you don't mind the 6 1/2% or so that comes right off the top of your paycheck, that if the system isn't revised.....you will never see, or see only a small percentage of?

I don't know about you....but over the last couple of years I've contributed about $25,000. As the system stands, I'd be extremely lucky to see $17,000 of that. Under my own managagement, that could have been more than twice that amount. Now I have absolutely no control over how my *future* is being taken care of -- outside of 401k, etc.

That's not insignificant to me.

Well I think that everyone has control over how their future is taken care of and they always have. Social Security was never meant to be used as a retirement plan and never saw it that way either.

But I agree that my money could grow better and that is what I try to do.

And what would help is Bush's call to curb spending.
That did make me guffaw when I heard him say that though.

[Yonivore]

So you don't mind the 6 1/2% or so that comes right off the top of your paycheck, that if the system isn't revised.....you will never see, or see only a small percentage of?

Actually, it's more like 13% for employees whose employer matches contributions to Social Security. Yep, the 6 1/2% the employer pays is considered part of your salary even though it never appears on your pay stub.

I don't know about you....but over the last couple of years I've contributed about $25,000. As the system stands, I'd be extremely lucky to see $17,000 of that. Under my own managagement, that could have been more than twice that amount. Now I have absolutely no control over how my *future* is being taken care of -- outside of 401k, etc.

That's not insignificant to me.

And, consider this; many people contribute their whole lives and never get a dime back because they die before becoming eligible to receive Social Security. Their families don't benefit either because, it's not transferrable.

Here's the kicker: Blacks males, because of their shorter life expectancy, are disproportionately so affected. Another reason I don't understand why Blacks vote Demoncrat in such disproportionate numbers.

With private accounts, the money is yours to pass on to your heirs.

[SpursWoman]

Well I think that everyone has control over how their future is taken care of and they always have.

Not over that 6 1/2% they most certainly have not. You don't really notice it that much because it's always been there and you're just used to never seeing it. That isn't an income tax....that's your money.

And what would help is Bush's call to curb spending.
That did make me guffaw when I heard him say that though.

Why would that make you laugh? Since now won't be the time we cut back on military spending, and I really don't see taxes getting raised, the first area that will be reviewed regarding any spending cuts are en lement programs. I'd think as a liberal you wouldn't find that very funny at all.

[NeoConIV]

Excellent points.

I think the dems are going to have a serious uphill battle on their hands as the public becomes increasingly aware of how archaic and inefficient the current S method is. Public opinion is going to swing the pendulum to Bush in time on this one.

[JoeChalupa]

Not over that 6 1/2% they most certainly have not. You don't really notice it that much because it's always been there and you're just used to never seeing it. That isn't an income tax....that's your money.




Why would that make you laugh? Since now won't be the time we cut back on military spending, and I really don't see taxes getting raised, the first area that will be reviewed regarding any spending cuts are en lement programs. I'd think as a liberal you wouldn't find that very funny at all.

What I found funny is that this administration has gone on the largest spending increase in history and then he calls for spending restraints?

As a conservative I'd think you wouldn't find that funny and agree.

And I do know it is my money but what I'm saying is don't blame social security if your plan for retirement sucks.

That's just my view feel free to disagree.

[JoeChalupa]

I have no problem with Bush's plan to offer private retirement accounts.

So don't lump everyone together.

You did notice there were several moderate republicans who didn't stand and cheer when Bush talked about his plan for social security right?

[Shelly]

Your payroll taxes at work....

Social Security is 6.2% and will be deducted out of your check until you earn $90,000. Medicare is deducted at a rate of 1.45% with no limit.

Your employer has to make federal deposits on your federal, FICA (SS), and Medicare. In my case, I have to do it weekly because the size of my yearly deposits. I pay double the fica and medicare taxes of my payroll and the the actual federal tax.

Your employer also pays 0.8 FUTA tax up to $7,000. In Texas, your employer pays umemployment tax up to $9,000..the rate depends on the company's unemployment history.

[SpursWoman]

What I found funny is that this administration has gone on the largest spending increase in history and then he calls for spending restraints?

As a conservative I'd think you wouldn't find that funny and agree.

And? The cuts are necessary, obviously.

I didn't think it was funny....therefore didn't "guffaw".

[office handle]

something to consider is that the feds rely on the social security surplus every budget year to pay for the cost of the government operations, just like your income taxes and other excise taxes.

as pointed out above the payroll taxes are regressive taxes. now yes, moving to some kind of private account system would help to relieve some of that extra tax burden, but if you remove that source of revenue to the govt then it has to be made up somewhere else, which is what the $2 trillion in additional borrowing would cover.

yet seeing as how even a supposedly conservative republican administration is unable to reign in federal spending one does wonder where eventually the revenues are going to come from to pay for all of this

[office handle]

honestly what would make sense is to change social security to purely a welfare program. social security was created for a time when very few people had the financial savvy to prepare for their own retirement as well as covered by private retirement plans.

it is clear that SS as currently cons uted is unsustainable long term without payroll tax rate increases and/or benefit cuts. if you move to a welfare type system, then the left gets the income guarantee in retirement that they want while the right would get the reduction in the scale and scope of government they want.

i am glad that bush has raised this issue and is willing to push for some kind of reform yet one must also realize that a couple years ago he pushed through the single largest increase in the en lement programs since the 60s.

[ididnotnothat]

I was wiping my a** and the next thing I see when I turn to my tv screen is all the dolts on one side of the screen clapping for what looked like a monkey. What did I miss?

[MannyIsGod]

Man, I got all the lesson I needed on social security when I was an insurance agent. I got a ing ty suprise come tax time, and it wasn't pretty.

I could have done MUCH better with that money than the government is ever going to do.

[CommanderMcBragg]

I think most people piss away 6% of their pay without even knowing it and then they don't have a retirement plan.

[Yonivore]

I think most people piss away 6% of their pay without even knowing it and then they don't have a retirement plan.

Not me. I pay myself first...I just wish the federal government would let me have more of my money to put away.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Well, with Bush spending YOUR money like a drunk sailor, don't expect any soon.

[SpursWoman]

Well, with Bush spending YOUR money like a drunk sailor, don't expect any soon.

Well, that $2,000 he gave back to me for my kids in the form of a tax credit just help pay off my car...so I don't have many complaints.

[NameDropper]

I guess some handouts are okay.

[SpursWoman]

*shrugs*


I appreciate it. And I'm sure you appreciate yours, too.

[Bandit2981]

lucky you...im still waiting for my I-9 forms to come in the mail!

[SpursWoman]

I've never not had a car payment....usually after about 3 years I can't stand it anymore and end up trading it in, where it's usually upside-down.

I must be getting old....now I'm like......."Damn, still looks pretty good...runs pretty good....the carpet is god-awful but I don't drive that much anymore, anyway.... so screw it...I'm keeping it until it falls apart!"



Everything should be postmarked by 1/31 ... if you don't receive them in another day or 2, I'd call. The mail doesn't take that long.

[Yonivore]

Well, with Bush spending YOUR money like a drunk sailor, don't expect any soon.

I don't know, the President has managed to up my tax return through child credits and such. If he's successful in SSA reform, I'll be getting to keep more of my money than ever before.

Add, on top of that, the fact his tax cuts relieved the burden on middle-income Americans while providing more of a handout to low-income Americans and still increasing federal revenue and I'd say he's on the right track -- in spite of the new spending (which, no one would argue, would have still taken place under a Demoncratic administration.)

[violentkitten]

this isnt hard to understand, you cut tax rates now, increase the rate of spending growth, and at some point down the road you have to increase tax rates. dont give me this about some kind of mythical 8% GDP growth rate making everything work. it didnt work in the 80s man as we saw the feds spend spend spend any increase in tax collections and then more so

also, again, surpluses from social security taxes go to fund the federal government so when you are considering the true federal tax on your income you have to include your payroll taxes as well.

while i applaud bushs willingness to raise SS reform as an issue i do have to remember that he ing doubled medicare a couple years back.