Spurs big men: As it stands now

[SenorSpur]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.

Couldn't agree more and couldn't have said it any better.

[Manufan909]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.

Damn you, Solid D., you've ruined this thread. You just said everything worth saying in one post.


So you think Pop'll put Gist in the 3 position more than the 4 this year, or the other way around?

[Solid D]

Ruined? Nah, we're just scratching the surface and the conversation is on-going. To answer your question, I think Gist will be used more as a 4 but injuries and matchups will dictate how much he moves to the wing. That is providing he is on the Active Roster.

[Solid D]

The torch: Malik Rose ---> Robert Horry ---> ? (Bonner? Gist?)

[pad300]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.

I agree with you that Gist makes the team, but I am unsure that it is as a big. Certainly, the coaches public plan is that he is the long searched for long 3. Currently our big are Tim, Thomas, Bonner, Oberto, Mahinmi. It is almost certain we will carry 6 bigs. I see another "veteran" professional (not neccesarily NBA - consider when Oberto came over) being brought in, rather than relying on 2 rooks (Mahinmi + Gist). Consider the history
2007 - Oberto, Horry, Bonner, Duncan, Elson/Thomas, Mahinmi (5 Vets, 1 rook)
2006 - Duncan, Oberto, Bonner, Horry, Elson, Bulter (5 Vets, 1 rook)
2005 - Duncan, Mohammed, Nesterovic, Horry, Oberto, Marks (6 vets)
2004 - Duncan, Nesterovic, Mohammed/Rose, Horry, Marks (5 vets) 12 Man roster only

see the pattern - No more than 1 rook in a year. I think Pop respects Euroleague experience more than the D-league. Therefore, I expect another Big to be signed (I am personally hoping to get Javtokas for either the LLE, or the remainder of the MLE).

[Bruno]

The way I see it is that Spurs have 3 battle-proof bigmen with Thomas, Duncan and Oberto.
These 3 players won't be able to cover the 96 mpg available at the PF and C spots. It's even more true when you consider that a Duncan/Thomas frontcourt is too slow against some teams.

At least one of Bonner, Mahinmi and Gist will get some playing time this year and enter in the rotation.

[ceperez]

I agree with you that Gist makes the team, but I am unsure that it is as a big.

Agree. I think he makes the team because of 3 things

(1) He has the length and quickness to guard the big SG, SF and the quick PF.

(2) He'll bring energy and hustle to snag those offensive rebounds.

(3) He's not going to be a liability on offense. He'll make the 3 when open.

See Bonner's problem is that he can't do (1) effectively.

We need (1) desperately. The best way to defend Kobe is with length (see: Pierce). The best way to defend Dirk (see: Posey) is with length and quickness. We've never had that kind of player in our arsenal.

[ceperez]

The way I see it is that Spurs have 3 battle-proof bigmen with Thomas, Duncan and Oberto.
These 3 players won't be able to cover the 96 mpg available at the PF and C spots. It's even more true when you consider that a Duncan/Thomas frontcourt is too slow against some teams.

At least one of Bonner, Mahinmi and Gist will get some playing time this year and enter in the rotation.

As much as I'm dissapointed in Mahinmi's SL play, he's probably our best big that can score on his own. Oberto and Thomas are just too slow and earth bound.

[BWS-1994]

I think Duncan's minutes will depend on how effective Oberto/Thomas/Mahinmi/Bonner would be.

Hopefully, Duncan wouldn't have to play more than 30 mins to give him enough rest for the Play-offs.

[SenorSpur]

Oberto and Thomas are just too slow and earth bound.

Oberto and Thomas are not just earth-bound, they're below sea level, with cement shoes.

[lurker23]

The way I see it is that Spurs have 3 battle-proof bigmen with Thomas, Duncan and Oberto.
These 3 players won't be able to cover the 96 mpg available at the PF and C spots. It's even more true when you consider that a Duncan/Thomas frontcourt is too slow against some teams.

At least one of Bonner, Mahinmi and Gist will get some playing time this year and enter in the rotation.

I think this is really what I was going for with my OP, and this excites me. In the past we've said, "How can we expect Bonner or Mahinmi to get minutes? They're trapped in the pecking order behind the guys who are already built into the rotation."

I think if there's an upside to Splitter staying overseas, this is it. If Splitter came over we'd be talking about an (admittedly more solid) rotation of Duncan, Splitter, Thomas, and Oberto. Now, barring some substantial trade before the season, we know that Bonner and/or Mahinmi (or Gist) will get some serious playing time early in the season. For better or for worse, these guys are going to get on the court, and we'll get a chance to see what they can really do given consistent NBA PT.

[Tully365]

I see Gist as one of the Bigs, now. It's premature, perhaps, but unless James Gist really flops in training camp in October, I think James makes the Spurs a better team - based on what I saw of him in SL play. There have been times over the past couple of seasons when the Spurs needed to disrupt and pressure their opponents with their bench and the Spurs weren't really able to do it. With G-Hill and Gist, I could see how the Spurs could give their starters a rest, pressure full court and do some things. Both of these guys are ball hawks, they get their hands on a lot of balls, and they get after it defensively. Pop resorted to "hack-a-player" in the playoffs in order to disrupt the flow and it worked to some degree. As immobile as Robert Horry had become laterally, it became difficult for him to be effective in presses after scores. He was also a liability on screen/roll switches. Gist could be an ideal replacement for Robert in these situations (not all situations of course)...much better than Matt Bonner has shown.

In my opinion, the Spurs have just drafted two gems. The Spurs can now potentially get some bench stops and run-stops with the likes of Udoka, Gist and Hill. Now if Mason can play better team D than Brent Barry did, opponents won't be shooting .450, and Spurs fans will see defense return to San Antonio.

Nice post. I think there is almost always a tendency to notice offense over defense, especially in summer league play. It definitely looks like the Spurs knew what they were doing when they drafted Hill and Gist, in terms of D. Hill may not be generating the hype that Bayless and Anthony Randolph are, but I bet he made a pretty good impression on OJ Mayo and most of the other guys he has defended recently.

[DROB4EVER]

Bayless and Randolph are gonna get slapped come reg season. No way Randolph makes it a full year at 195lb PF. Hill will be fine he will be a nice 8th man who will be able to defend and he will suprise with his scoring.

[mrspurs]

well looks like tolliver is gonna get gists minutes if any........so far i see another season with a bunch of(minus timmy) big scrubs.......id be surprised if timmy makes thru another season without injury with the minutes he will have to play in order for us to win important games......so far the spurs have gotten rid of dead weight(barry,horry,mighty mouse) the replaced barry and got better(mason) horry wasnt hard to replace(he didnt do much at all this past season but sit and smile)(tolliver) and ill take hill over Pop's mighty mouse anyday or night.......does it makes us good enough? still dont know, still to early......

[Manufan909]

Depends on the new guys in the active roster. I'm confident Mason and Hil can combine for 20 (12/8, respectively), and I'm hoping Mahinmi was bored in the SL, 7pts 7rbs doesn't sound like too much in his first year. Gist and Tolliver Idk, because even if one of them make it, they'd probably be the 13th, 14th, or 15th man. I'm hoping for:

Tony 19/Hill 5
Mason 8/Manu 20/Finley 5(has he been resigned yet)
Bruce 5/Ime 5
Tim 19/Matt 5/ Ian 7
Kurt 5/Oberto 5

With this, somehow I get 107, and I seriously doubt the Spurs can do that. I know I'm close concerning the returning players, but I have no clue as to Mason, Ian, and Hill. , I couldn't even put Gist or Tollver on the roster. What do you think the active roster will be, timvp? I trust your judgement more than mine.

[John_C]

Does anyone here think that Bonner just needs to have more exposure and trust from Pop and he'll become a fine role player for us? I really think Bonner has the skill set, and with regards to BB IQ, I think it would be a matter of not getting depressed if Pop goes down on him for his mistakes. Players tend to focus more on their mistakes if they feel there is less trust put on them.

[mystargtr34]

Depends on the new guys in the active roster. I'm confident Mason and Hil can combine for 20 (12/8, respectively), and I'm hoping Mahinmi was bored in the SL, 7pts 7rbs doesn't sound like too much in his first year. Gist and Tolliver Idk, because even if one of them make it, they'd probably be the 13th, 14th, or 15th man. I'm hoping for:

Tony 19/Hill 5
Mason 8/Manu 20/Finley 5(has he been resigned yet)
Bruce 5/Ime 5
Tim 19/Matt 5/ Ian 7
Kurt 5/Oberto 5

With this, somehow I get 107, and I seriously doubt the Spurs can do that. I know I'm close concerning the returning players, but I have no clue as to Mason, Ian, and Hill. , I couldn't even put Gist or Tollver on the roster. What do you think the active roster will be, timvp? I trust your judgement more than mine.

Manu wont be scoring 20 a game this season after what happened to him in the playoffs. His minutes will probably go down to around 28 and he will probably average around 16-17 ppg. I think this will be the season TP steps up and bumps his average into the 20's.

Either way, its hard to come up with totals, as much as TP likes to run, this is still gonne be a team with one of the lowest Pace Factors in the league so were probably looking at about 97-100 PPG.

[Manufan909]

I guess I wasn't too off, then.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Manu wont be scoring 20 a game this season after what happened to him in the playoffs. His minutes will probably go down to around 28 and he will probably average around 16-17 ppg. I think this will be the season TP steps up and bumps his average into the 20's.

Either way, its hard to come up with totals, as much as TP likes to run, this is still gonne be a team with one of the lowest Pace Factors in the league so were probably looking at about 97-100 PPG.

Not sure how we got around to talking about Manu in a big man thread, but...

He's going to get a lot of rest to start the season coming off the Olympics.

We will be in trouble if Manu is playing over 30 minutes a night before April. He had to do it this past spring so we could stay in the playoff race, but I suspect the Spurs are counting on Mason doing what he did when Arenas and Antawn went down in D.C. - putting up about 17 a night as a starter.

[ceperez]

Does anyone here think that Bonner just needs to have more exposure and trust from Pop and he'll become a fine role player for us? I really think Bonner has the skill set, and with regards to BB IQ, I think it would be a matter of not getting depressed if Pop goes down on him for his mistakes. Players tend to focus more on their mistakes if they feel there is less trust put on them.

The Spurs surely had a good reason for signing him on a long term contract. Unfortunately, I have yet to see him really shine.

[Manufan909]

Indeed. He was solid before his injury last year, and since then he never truly gained Pop's trust back. Want I don't get is that he was the emergency starter when Duncan was out, and then he dissapeared onto the bench shortly after.