Spurs sign Charles Gaines and waive Morrison

[timvp]

Right now, I give Gaines the edge over Tolliver and Watkins to make the team.
He was a quality player in Europe and he fills a big need for Spurs as PF who can defend quick PFs (like Odom or Dirk). It is a very interesting signing...

I'll have to disagree with that assessment. The only reason he made training camp was due to the injuries to Mahinmi and Thomas. If they were healthy, the Spurs wouldn't have even brought him in.

Unless there is some situation where he was just released from a European team or something, Gaines is just training camp fodder. If he was just sitting around with no European contract and no NBA training camp invite, I'll disagree with your analysis that he's the second coming. Just like I disagreed that bringing in Morrison was a sign the Spurs thought Hill and Stoudamire were shooting guards . . .

[Bruno]

The only reason he made training camp was due to the injuries to Mahinmi and Thomas. If they were healthy, the Spurs wouldn't have even brought him in.

Have I said the opposite ?
The first thing I've pointed was Thomas and Mahinmi injuries.
And a couple of years ago, Blazers have signed Udoka for the training camp only because he was a local guy. He end up starting for them.

Unless there is some situation where he was just released from a European team or something, Gaines is just training camp fodder.

Gaines has been a good player in Europe for years. I find it very surprising that he was still available that late in the season. IMO, he was either injured or he didn't want to go back in Europe for some family reasons.

I'll disagree with your analysis that he's the second coming.

Nice exaggeration, I just say that he is better than Tolliver or Watkins.

[timvp]

Nice exaggeration, I just say that he is better than Tolliver or Watkins.

I'll be sure to bump this when Gaines gets waived once Thomas is healthy.

[Bruno]

I'll be sure to bump this when Gaines gets waived once Thomas is healthy.

If he came back from an injury, it could happens. If he is 100% healthy, I doubt it.

[ChumpDumper]

Right now, I give Gaines the edge over Tolliver and Watkins to make the team.
He was a quality player in Europe and he fills a big need for Spurs as PF who can defend quick PFs (like Odom or Dirk). It is a very interesting signing...

I would give Gaines the edge over Watkins because Gaines can play basketball, but not Tolliver -- especially if Tolliver keeps shooting well.

[T Park]

Am i wrong in assuming all Tolliver can do is shoot the basketball?

[jbspurs]

Smart player, knows how to read defense.

[SenorSpur]

Am i wrong in assuming all Tolliver can do is shoot the basketball?

I read his draft analysis. It seems he was a low post player in college - if you can believe that. I would guess he's still got those skills, which may work against a smaller opponent.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...Tolliver-1279/

Can't wait to see how he fares.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The good news is he's not tiny. The bad news is that the stats aren't really impressive as they are from the Turkish league and the ULEB cup, which are a level lower than Euroleague play.

Turkish League is not one of elite leagues like Spain, Italy, Russia, Greece but is in the group of next best leagues like Turkey, Adriatic and the Baltic one. But yes those stats is not so good for Turkey League.

But actual those stats is pretty good for the ULEB Cup. NBA fan must understand stats is much different in Europe as I try explain many time. Even though ULEB Cup is below Euroleague level those is still good stats there because game is play much different in Europe. In some league like Italian league stats is more like NBA but in most leagues stats is much different because of how game is play.

League leader in ULEB Cup last year in points is 20.6 and league leader in rebounds is 9.1. NBA fans is never understand this they think American players is "dominate" and average 35 point and 20 rebound over there and other crazy things.

12 point and 7 rebound average is much better stat in Europe where is much less possession in offense and much less rebound available than it look in NBA. NBA fans is keep brag about Rudy Fernandez is "superstar" and is "best Europe player" and "next Manu" - he average 15.2 points in ULEB Cup last year and play in team that is same pace of game as old Suns team.

[Ice009]

If he is a guy that can play good defense and guard players like Dirk, David West then he could really be an interesting player. That's the main point I am interested in - How his defense is against mobile big men? I don't care too much about his offense at this point.

[tomtom]

Looks pretty decent. I say give him a shot. We need a guy that can move like him.

[Manufan909]

I like what I saw in the mixtape, I'd rather have a fearless 6-9 player, than Fab who plays "smart", but with fear. KT, Fab, and Finley need to be 12-14 on the roster after the allstar break.

[timtonymanu]

just watched the mixtape. it's worth giving him a shot. hopefully he's not just gonna turn out to be a training camp invitee.

[Biggems]

once i saw the first alleyoop, i knew he was not for us.....the spurs dont alleyoop, lob, or dunk. we are boring remember........no highlight reels in San Antonio.........

[mountainballer]

for whatever reason it's been ignored by the report that Gaines played a full Euroleague season with DKV. (2006-07)
he wasn't outstanding back then, but clearly a quality impact player at the highest level of basketball in Europe. tough, great energy, good intensity on defense, quick hands.
he played 20 games (16 starts) and averaged 10.3 PPG and 6.3 RPG in 25 MPG.
in the same season he also played the full ACB season in Spain with a decent DKV team. (Rudy had his break out season, DKV finished the regular season 4th in Spain and made it to the semi finals.) he averaged 11.0 PPG and 7.8 RPG in 25.7 MPG.
I think this numbers are better suited to display his potential than Turkish league or ULEB cup.

however, I can't tell why he didn't get a contract in Europe, for sure it wasn't a quality question, maybe more of a salary question.
(he switched teams every year, usually an indicator for a player, who just goes for the best bid). maybe he just gambles and wait till a top Euro team gets desperate because of injuries or bad play from their foreign players. we always see some significant roster changes in November and December in Europe and there are always some players just waiting to jump on a team for a good (because desperate) offer.
but maybe he just wants a shot to get a spot in the NBA.
(he's from Houston, maybe he wants to be close to home and that's why he comes to the Spurs camp)

btw. I think 6'9'' is for sure a bit exaggerated. he was always listed between 201cm and 203cm in Europe and just from comparing to other players I also would guess he's somewhere between 6'7'' and 6'8''.
someone compared his game to K-Mart. that's not a bad comparison I guess.
and yes, IMO he's absolutely not a SF and also not a combo forward (like Gist). pure PF.

[Obstructed_View]

The youtube vid shows him sitting on the bench with 10 points, 4 steals and 4 fouls. If he can't keep the opponent out of the bonus and himself off the bench then he's not much help.

someone compared his game to K-Mart. that's not a bad comparison I guess.

He physically looks like KMart, but that's about it.

[mountainballer]

The youtube vid shows him sitting on the bench with 10 points, 4 steals and 4 fouls. If he can't keep the opponent out of the bonus and himself off the bench then he's not much help.



He physically looks like KMart, but that's about it.

huh? none tried to to use this comparison to describe the quality of his game, but to give an idea about the style of his game.
if K-Mart was such an absurd idea, I'm very curious who you have in mind to compare his game to.
and btw. you use a single number on a single youtube video to judge his abilities to defend without fouls? wow, that's confidence.
btw. he wasn't a foul machine in Europe. in fact he usually managed to stay out of foul troubles pretty well.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

for whatever reason it's been ignored by the report that Gaines played a full Euroleague season with DKV. (2006-07)
he wasn't outstanding back then, but clearly a quality impact player at the highest level of basketball in Europe. tough, great energy, good intensity on defense, quick hands.
he played 20 games (16 starts) and averaged 10.3 PPG and 6.3 RPG in 25 MPG.
in the same season he also played the full ACB season in Spain with a decent DKV team. (Rudy had his break out season, DKV finished the regular season 4th in Spain and made it to the semi finals.) he averaged 11.0 PPG and 7.8 RPG in 25.7 MPG.
I think this numbers are better suited to display his potential than Turkish league or ULEB cup.

however, I can't tell why he didn't get a contract in Europe, for sure it wasn't a quality question, maybe more of a salary question.
(he switched teams every year, usually an indicator for a player, who just goes for the best bid). maybe he just gambles and wait till a top Euro team gets desperate because of injuries or bad play from their foreign players. we always see some significant roster changes in November and December in Europe and there are always some players just waiting to jump on a team for a good (because desperate) offer.
but maybe he just wants a shot to get a spot in the NBA.
(he's from Houston, maybe he wants to be close to home and that's why he comes to the Spurs camp)

btw. I think 6'9'' is for sure a bit exaggerated. he was always listed between 201cm and 203cm in Europe and just from comparing to other players I also would guess he's somewhere between 6'7'' and 6'8''.
someone compared his game to K-Mart. that's not a bad comparison I guess.
and yes, IMO he's absolutely not a SF and also not a combo forward (like Gist). pure PF.

DKV numbers is in fastest pace in Europe.

[mountainballer]

DKV numbers is in fastest pace in Europe.

so what?!??

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

so what?!??

So ULEB Cup numbers is better ones to look at.

Trust me. Like Rudy average 15.2 points with them last year in ULEB Cup but in team like CSKA or PAO it will be like 10-12 points. DKV is very pace team and very much below top levels of big clubs.

I think is better look at how he do in ULEB Cup with Turkish club than with DKV in Euroleague.

[mountainballer]

pace adjustment changes numbers slightly, but not enough to claim some numbers are just a result of a teams pace.
even if you take the fastest team in a league and compare it to the average, the difference will be about +5%. same of course in the other direction either.

ULEB cup numbers don't tell much, because the level of compe ion in the regular season is between weak and joke.
, even the Austrian champ made it to the top 16 last year. that's not exactly a proof for a high level of compe ion. believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

most of the better domestic leagues in Europe play a higher level of compe ion than the regular season of the former ULEB cup.
the compe ion might get pretty good from the quarter finals. but that about it. even the winner will have played only 5-8 tough games.
that's a huge difference to the Euroleague regular season. there are also some weaker teams in, but the gap from the best to the worst team in Euroleague is a fractional amount to the gap from the better Eurocup teams to the bad teams. that's like good divison I teams to bad division III teams in the NCA.

[MoSpur]

We need someone quick to gaurd the likes of Odom, West, and so on

[Obstructed_View]

huh? none tried to to use this comparison to describe the quality of his game, but to give an idea about the style of his game.
if K-Mart was such an absurd idea, I'm very curious who you have in mind to compare his game to.

Hmm. Not sure where you saw the word "absurd", but since you took issue...

I noticed the physical resemblence to Martin, and that he carries himself the same way, but barring the fact that he can dunk, I'm not sure how his style is the same. Martin at that age could jump out of the building, was an incredible shot blocker and could actually create his own shot. He looks much shorter than Martin, too, but you did mention that. It takes more than stalking around with tattoos on your arms to merit a comparison to a guy who at that age was the best college basketball player in the country.

and btw. you use a single number on a single youtube video to judge his abilities to defend without fouls? wow, that's confidence.
btw. he wasn't a foul machine in Europe. in fact he usually managed to stay out of foul troubles pretty well.

btw. I haven't judged anything, that part of the video reminded me that he's going to have to figure out how not to foul if he's going to make an NBA roster. It was the part of the vid that inspired an observation. Thought I'd share it. Staying out of foul trouble "pretty well" in Europe most likely means he's going to have a hard time adjusting to NBA players. Mahinmi has trouble with it, Gaines probably will too. I'm not sure why you'd take issue with it.

[mountainballer]

Hmm. Not sure where you saw the word "absurd", but since you took issue...

I noticed the physical resemblence to Martin, and that he carries himself the same way, but barring the fact that he can dunk, I'm not sure how his style is the same. Martin at that age could jump out of the building, was an incredible shot blocker and could actually create his own shot. He looks much shorter than Martin, too, but you did mention that. It takes more than stalking around with tattoos on your arms to merit a comparison to a guy who at that age was the best college basketball player in the country.


btw. I haven't judged anything, that part of the video reminded me that he's going to have to figure out how not to foul if he's going to make an NBA roster. It was the part of the vid that inspired an observation. Thought I'd share it. Staying out of foul trouble "pretty well" in Europe most likely means he's going to have a hard time adjusting to NBA players. Mahinmi has trouble with it, Gaines probably will too. I'm not sure why you'd take issue with it.

peace.
again, it was not me to compare him to K-Mart, it was another poster and I thought that this isn't a bad picture. call him poor man's K-Mart.
we are talking about a possible 3rd stringer, 10 MPG guy on our roster anyhow.
Gaines was a decent player in Europe. that's about it. spectacular dunker, but can also put the ball on the floor and has some nice moves. can't say if enough to ever play a role in the NBA. but I think he has a good chance to outplay either Tolliver and Watkins at the camp. if in fact KT will also be a question mark and Ian is out for some weeks, he might be the better solution to provide help in the first months of the season than the other two. based on his higher level of experience.
btw. Ian was a foul machine in the Euroleague either.

[wisnub]

Judging from his size 6.9 and thin and a good sense of blocking shot..what i see is a BRUCE BOWEN'S HEIR... watch out Udoka!!! You just got yourself a compe or!!! I wouldnt surprise if this guy start receiving crazy dose of 3 points training from coach Chip