McDonald: Spurs Reserve Faces Crucial Days

[SenorSpur]

Wing and front line development are both areas of concern, everyone agrees. I'm not sold on Watkins as a pipeline player, however. The Spurs will have an opportunity at Javtokas and Gist next summer, and a remote chance at Splitter in 2010. So the pipeline is not completely dry. And Mahinmi and Tolliver have yet to completely flush out. So we'll have to wait and see. But ideally, the Spurs would be grooming one rotation big man in Austin.

Gist will be a good bet and a good get for next year. I fully expect to see him on the roster next year.

If Javtokas had intentions of being a Spur, he would've been by now. My guess is he's making far too much money in Europe to come over here and take a pay cut. Same with Splitter. None of these guys can be counted on a certain future acquisitions. They've already been burned once by depending solely on the Euro market players. The economic situation has made this strategy an unwise one. It would be foolish to go there again.

It's more prudent for the Spurs to subscribe to the ol' "bird-in-the-hand" theory. Watkins has already demonstrated some raw defensive skills that are unique to this roster and the Spurs have him now. I'd prefer they took a chance on developing him. If someone better comes along later - great. However, having him on hand right now, trumps two frontline guys who may never see the inside of a Spurs uniform.

[tav1]

Gist will be a good bet and a good get for next year. I fully expect to see him on the roster next year.

If Javtokas had intentions of being a Spur, he would've been by now. My guess is he's making far too much money in Europe to come over here and take a pay cut. Same with Splitter. None of these guys can be counted on a certain future acquisitions. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

Personally, I'd rather subscribe to the ol' "bird-in-the-hand" theory. Watkins has demonstrated some raw defensive skills that are unique to this roster and the Spurs have him now. I'd prefer they took a chance on developing him. If someone better comes along later - great. However, having him on hand right now, trumps two frontline guys who may never see the inside of a Spurs uniform.

Double-check me, but Javtokas' Russian contract expires next summer and he isn't highly paid. Next summer is his last chance at the NBA.

And as bad as Tolliver has looked, he looks better than Watkins to my eyes. He plays with more energy, gets on the boards, etc... Tolliver can play in Austin and is better bet as a 6th big. I know you disagree. But forget us for a moment. It's clear that the Spurs think more highly of Tolliver than Watkins. The 6th big slot is settled, if it's a question of Tolliver or Watkins. I don't like the Bolliver redundancy, but it's better than the Watkins cantplayancy.

[SenorSpur]

Double-check me, but Javtokas' Russian contract expires next summer and he isn't highly paid. Next summer is his last chance at the NBA.

And as bad as Tolliver has looked, he looks better than Watkins to my eyes. He plays with more energy, gets on the boards, etc... Tolliver can play in Austin and is better bet as a 6th big. I know you disagree. But forget us for a moment. It's clear that the Spurs think more highly of Tolliver than Watkins. The 6th big slot is settled, if it's a question of Tolliver or Watkins. I don't like the Bolliver redundancy, but it's better than the Watkins cantplayancy.

Absolutely agree. Tolliver WILL make this roster. Pop has almost admitted as much. However, I don't get caught up comparing Tolliver and Watkins. Tolliver is a perimeter big and Watkins a post big. They bring a different set of skills to the mix. Anyways, I know Tolliver will get the edge and I'm OK with him making the roster. I just wish it was at the expense of Bonner.

I realize I'm wishful thinking on Watkins, but when thinking about the "suddenly" bigger frontlines of the Western Conference, Watkins gives the Spurs another player to help protect the rim and patrol the paint. I keep harping on this because I don't feel as though Tim has enough frontline help in KT, Fab and an unproven Ian.

[tav1]

Absolutely agree. Tolliver WILL make this roster. Pop has almost admitted as much. However, I don't get caught up comparing Tolliver and Watkins. Tolliver is a perimeter big and Watkins a post big. They bring a different set of skills to the mix. Anyways, I know Tolliver will get the edge and I'm OK with him making the roster. I just wish it was at the expense of Bonner.

I realize I'm wishful thinking on Watkins, but when thinking about the "suddenly" bigger frontlines of the Western Conference, Watkins gives the Spurs another player to help protect the rim and patrol the paint. I keep harping on this because I don't feel as though Tim has enough frontline help in KT, Fab and an unproven Ian.

Okay. Fair enough. So you're in favor of the Spurs keeping 7 bigs? Or do you just want to be on record if the Spurs struggle against LA and Portland?

If the latter, I would just submit that playing fast and small is a more likely solution to other bigs than Watkins; and Gist and Javtokas are likely to help in that area just as soon as Watkins, even if he is on the official roster this season. He would play as many meaningful minutes as the other two.

Watkins could be available for the Toros as a Toro. That's as much as we can hope for from him. In that regard, I'm cheering for him.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't see how Watkins could help because he would never make it off the IR for the Spurs. He'd be nice for the Toros, but there is no way he cracks the Spurs' rotation this season unless three big men get injured. It's highly doubtful he would crack any NBA rotation at this point.

[SenorSpur]

I don't think he'll crack the rotation either. I'm looking at him as a developmental player and as insurance against the bigger frontlines. I just like having him in the pipeline for down the road. We're all going to see how undermanned the Spurs frontline is when we're watching Duncan trying to fend off two 7-fters as he did on ocassion last year - with little help from KT or Fab. We still don't know about Ian.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'd rather the Spurs keep Salim and trade Vaughn.

[T Park]

I'd rather the Spurs keep Salim and trade Vaughn.

(knock knock)

Nah, someone else is posting for Ed there....

[timvp]

Good discussion in this thread

Something further to consider when figuring who will make the team is each player's salary. I'm subtracting out the amount that was already guaranteed (thanks to Bruno for the info) since the Spurs will have to pay that either way. The following is how much more money they'd have to guarantee each player:

Tolliver - $242,114*
Hairston - $442,114
Stoudamire - $597,581
Watkins - $691,517
Green - $691,517
Farmer - $711,517

There are a lot of factors working for Hairston. He's cheap. He's young. He can do two years in Austin. So even if he isn't blowing the Spurs away, all things being close to equal, Hairston has a bit of an advantage.

Farmer being the most expensive to keep may hurt him -- even though we aren't talking about huge sums of money.













*I may be wrong about Tolliver's number. He made the Cavs last year for one day but didn't play. If that bumps him to the next pay grade due to not technically being a rookie, the correct number would be $511,517.

[SenorSpur]

Good discussion in this thread

Something further to consider when figuring who will make the team is each player's salary. I'm subtracting out the amount that was already guaranteed (thanks to Bruno for the info) since the Spurs will have to pay that either way. The following is how much more money they'd have to guarantee each player:

Tolliver - $242,114*
Hairston - $442,114
Stoudamire - $597,581
Watkins - $691,517
Green - $691,517
Farmer - $711,517

There are a lot of factors working for Hairston. He's cheap. He's young. He can do two years in Austin. So even if he isn't blowing the Spurs away, all things being close to equal, Hairston has a bit of an advantage.

Farmer being the most expensive to keep may hurt him -- even though we aren't talking about huge sums of money.









*I may be wrong about Tolliver's number. He made the Cavs last year for one day but didn't play. If that bumps him to the next pay grade due to not technically being a rookie, the correct number would be $511,517.

Wasn't Farmer the D-League scoring leader last year? If so, does he have another year of eligibility there or is his tenure up?

[Obstructed_View]

By all the ways

Gortat is the only polish guy in the NBA if someone don't know.

Exsqueeze me?

[timvp]

Wasn't Farmer the D-League scoring leader last year? If so, does he have another year of eligibility there or is his tenure up?

If the Spurs kept him, they could send him to D-League. But he has only one more year of eligibility.

[SenorSpur]

If the Spurs kept him, they could send him to D-League. But he has only one more year of eligibility.

Only problem is it would cost them a roster spot. I still believe that Hairston is the best overall option - for all the reasons that you mentioned and because he's the better defender.

[tav1]

Good discussion in this thread

Something further to consider when figuring who will make the team is each player's salary. I'm subtracting out the amount that was already guaranteed (thanks to Bruno for the info) since the Spurs will have to pay that either way. The following is how much more money they'd have to guarantee each player:

Tolliver - $242,114*
Hairston - $442,114
Stoudamire - $597,581
Watkins - $691,517
Green - $691,517
Farmer - $711,517

There are a lot of factors working for Hairston. He's cheap. He's young. He can do two years in Austin. So even if he isn't blowing the Spurs away, all things being close to equal, Hairston has a bit of an advantage.

Farmer being the most expensive to keep may hurt him -- even though we aren't talking about huge sums of money.













*I may be wrong about Tolliver's number. He made the Cavs last year for one day but didn't play. If that bumps him to the next pay grade due to not technically being a rookie, the correct number would be $511,517.

If the Spurs cut Hairston, do they lose his rights altogether? In my mind, I've been lumping him together with Gist in the sense that the Spurs could find a place for him in Europe and retain his rights...

The difference is that Gist never signed a contract with the Spurs.

[Manufan909]

If Gist never signed anything Senorspur, how are you so sure he'll come back? Plus, do any of the bigs contract's expire after this season, cuz the Spurs need to make space so Ian, Tolliver, and Gist can get serious minutes. If I had to choose between Fab and KT, I'd go with Kurt.

[timvp]

If the Spurs cut Hairston, do they lose his rights altogether? In my mind, I've been lumping him together with Gist in the sense that the Spurs could find a place for him in Europe and retain his rights...

They lose all NBA rights to Hairston if they cut him. They keep D-League rights to him but even with that, they don't have any protection from another team signing him at any point.

[tp2021]

If the Spurs cut Hairston, do they lose his rights altogether? In my mind, I've been lumping him together with Gist in the sense that the Spurs could find a place for him in Europe and retain his rights...

The difference is that Gist never signed a contract with the Spurs.

The Spurs actually drafted Gist, so they have his NBA rights.

[Manufan909]

I'll admit Tolliver would be an ok pick, if we had 3 or 4 roster spots. Someone needs to "convince" Vaughn and Bonner to resign.


Not really, but I can dream.

[Ice009]

You know Pop, he likes veterans to carry such duties. Like Finley... or Vaughn.



We roll with what we have. Other than Barry and Horry, we haven't lost any other player that makes the rotation in the playoffs anyways. Mason is there to cover for Barry, and KT should be more comfortable now after a year here.
We're going to go as far as the big 3 takes us anyways. If you think we're going to make a splash and make a Gasol type of deal you have to be kidding yourself.

Where did I say we're going to make a Gasol like trade? I said we're probably not going to make a good trade at the trade deadline so you may as well dump Vaughn now.

[Ice009]

I believe the frontline development has been largely ignored - especially with Ian's unfortunate injury. Outside of Duncan, this team is lacking a paint presence. To your point, I'd rather see them use a roster spot on a developmental player like Watkins or Hairston. Though he has only limited NBA experience with Sac-town, Watkins CAN provide post defense, rebounding and shotblocking in spot duty this season. Hairston, with some Austin seasoning, could begin to pay dividends as early as next year. IMO, these are the two most important developmental players they should have in the pipeline.

I'm going to bring up something about where you mentioned spot duty. I think Watkins could be great is spot duty. Whereas Bonner totally sucks in that role.

Bonner has shown us when he gets the minutes he can play well offensively, but he makes too many defensive mistakes, can't really guard any of the starting PF's in the league and not to mention other boneheaded plays in general. Basically Bonner sucks in spot duty. He needs court time to actually play good, but with all his other deficiencies I don't see Pop giving him that court time.

Really what the Spurs need is some players that can come in a produce in spot duty. Farmer, Stoudamire, Tolliver, Watkins could be those type of players that can make an impact within small amounts of court time. Bonner seems to be pretty bad in that role.

[SenorSpur]

If Gist never signed anything Senorspur, how are you so sure he'll come back? Plus, do any of the bigs contract's expire after this season, cuz the Spurs need to make space so Ian, Tolliver, and Gist can get serious minutes. If I had to choose between Fab and KT, I'd go with Kurt.

While it's impossible to be 100% certain, the fact is the Spurs still retain his draft rights. All indications seem to point to him wanting to play in the NBA. If that's the case and unless some Euro team throws crazy $$$ at him, I expect him to be with the Spurs next year. We all know he's got a lot of promise. I just hope we're able to see him blossom in a Spurs uniform.

[Ice009]

Also, if Pop is looking at Stoudamire and is basing it off of him having more NBA experience than the other guys the you only need to look at the Scola situation last season.

Scola had no NBA experience and the Spurs didn't think he'd fit and/or his game translate to the NBA. They were wrong about that. Scola showed in only one season that he's clearly a better player than Bonner. Don't make the same mistake with these new guys just because they don't have that NBA experience. Don't penalize them for it.

[SenorSpur]

I'm going to bring up something about where you mentioned spot duty. I think Watkins could be great is spot duty. Whereas Bonner totally sucks in that role.

Bonner has shown us when he gets the minutes he can play well offensively, but he makes too many defensive mistakes, can't really guard any of the starting PF's in the league and not to mention other boneheaded plays in general. Basically Bonner sucks in spot duty. He needs court time to actually play good, but with all his other deficiencies I don't see Pop giving him that court time.

Really what the Spurs need is some players that can come in a produce in spot duty. Farmer, Stoudamire, Tolliver, Watkins could be those type of players that can make an impact within small amounts of court time. Bonner seems to be pretty bad in that role.

I hear ya. Bonner does seem to produce diminishing returns in spot duty. However, with Tolliver waiting in the wings, and because Bonner is so wildy inconsistent, I can see Pop having a short leash with him. I would expect Pop to likely utlize both players interchangeably, as he did with the Horry/Bonner tandem, with one backing up the other.

Someone mentioned this earlier, but I can see Tolliver pushing Bonner to a point where he may eventually beat him out of the rotation. Really, I would be fine if Tolliver was the only perimeter-shooting big man on the roster.

[AC#21_TD ERA]

Common sense must prevail here. The Spurs need scoring. Sign Salim and Farmer. It's exactly what the team needs. Use the sensible Orlando trade as Timvp metioned previously. Salim will strecth the floor and Farmer is another weapon in the wings. Salim has so much potential and it will be a massive mistake not to sign him. J.Vaughn pack your bags, Orlando is your new home.

[Ice009]

I would actually feel bad for Vaughn if he were to be cut or traded though. I can't imagine what the new guys would think if that were to happen. It'd probably make them realize that you have to bust your ass to make it in this league and keep them on their toes after making the team.