Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Grizzlies - Nov. 24

[angelbelow]

nice.

[Darkwaters]

The main reason I put Bonner in the starting lineup is because Pop seems to be interested in doing so. Bonner spent several games there earlier in the season before falling flat on his face. It seems that Pop thinks it's where he should be. And the performances of Oberto/Thomas haven't exactly been inspiring. They haven't even been worthwhile. Bonner just looks to be whats coming.

Also, I think Bowen's role is going to move him to the bench for good. His productivity is slipping, but a role off the bench keeps him productive longer. And if Finley is hitting like he is now semi-routinely then it's not a bad move. I still think Bowen is likely to be on the floor in crunch time more often than not, but at the start of the game...I'm not so sure.

[timvp]

Very good post, Darkwaters

Our backcourt looks to be the most fearsome in the NBA once TP comes back to the court. Not only can Tony and Manu take it to any other "starting" frontcourt in the NBA, but it is significantly deep as well. Parker/Hill and Ginobili/Mason looks to be incredibly capable.

Yeah the backcourt looks to be in great shape. We still have to wait to see how they do when they are all together and healthy but I see no reason why this backcourt can't be the best in Spurs history. It's like the 2003 backcourt but on steroids.

On the wings the team is not nearly as strong but looks to be still be respectable. With the aforementioned Mason/Ginobili lineup likely to dominate the 2 position we are left with Bowen/Finley/Udoka at the 3.

Once everyone is whole, I'm going to be very interested to see how the threesome of TP, Manu and RMJ do on the court. Offensively they should be dangerous but I worry a bit about their defense. Luckily both Manu and RMJ are stronger than they look and do a good job of fighting if the other team tries to post them up.

If they can survive defensively, they are going to finish a lot of games.

Starters - Parker/Mason/Finley/Duncan/Bonner
- This starting rotation is pretty well rounded. All the players can score, and most can defend (ahem, Bonner). But Bonner spaces the floor for Duncan and allows him to do his work down-low. All 3 of the perimeter spots are dangerous and can hurt opposing defenses.

Yeah if Oberto doesn't start rebounding, that's a definite possibility to be the starting lineup. Regarding Bonner's defense, he's actually been very good at that end -- especially in the last six games. Sometimes I don't believe my own eyes when it comes to Bonner's defense because it's different from what we've come to expect out of a bigman defender on the Spurs. Instead of blocking shots and dominating the glass, he uses his deceptively quick feet to bust pick and rolls and then he uses his strength to push bigmen out of the comfort zones.

Currently, the opposition scores 81.3 points per 48 minutes when Bonner is on the court. That far and away leads the Spurs, with Hill's 84.4 being second. I'm sure this stat is a little fluke-ish right now because of the small sample size but it goes to show that Bonner is actually a better defender than it appears to the naked eye ... and that Hill's good defense is no joke.

[timvp]

What has surprised me most about Hill has been his slashing ability. He's quick and crafty, and gets into the paint pretty easily. If he can become a consistent finisher, he could become a very dangerous scorer. Mason has also impressed with his ball-handling abilities and ability to penetrate. He's definitely a gunner, but he's shown the occasional ability to get to the basket and to the line.

Since the dawn of the Big Three, the Spurs have never really had any consistent slashers outside of Tony and Manu. Now they might have a third and possible fourth, giving them some completely new options and opponents a new wrinkle to figure out.

Perhaps the best part of Mason and Hill panning out so far is it should extend the championship window for the Spurs. Before the season, it looked like this year could be the last legitimate shot before having to totally rebuild. But now if Mason and Hill can continue to contribute at their current level and the team can avoid injuries, the Spurs should remain serious contenders for at least the next two or three years.

[exstatic]

This might seem like a strange question, but does anyone else see Hill as the eventual Manu successor?

[mystargtr34]

I cant see Hill playing as a permanent SG at 6'2"

[timvp]

This might seem like a strange question, but does anyone else see Hill as the eventual Manu successor?

If he keeps his current career trajectory, he could definitely fill Manu's "caged beast off the bench" role in a few years. He's not going to be as good as Manu and his height will limit his ability to play shooting guard on a regular basis but I could definitely eventually see him being the player who comes off the bench and dominates the action for stretches at a time.

[exstatic]

I cant see Hill playing as a permanent SG at 6'2"

He's a great athlete, has a huge wingspan, and looks ripped and strong. If he's 180, I'll eat my hat. The boy's got GUNS.

The Spurs are about two things, players playing multiple roles and team defense. I also think any shortcomings on the D end of the floor become advantages on the O end of the floor.

[mystargtr34]

He's a great athlete, has a huge wingspan, and looks ripped and strong. If he's 180, I'll eat my hat. The boy's got GUNS.

The Spurs are about two things, players playing multiple roles and team defense. I also think any shortcomings on the D end of the floor become advantages on the O end of the floor.

Yea he does look wiry strong. Im not sure if you ment playing strictly the '2' like Manu, but then again since when did Manu strictly play the 2 anyway, he handles the ball the most. I think hes best value defensively will be defending point guards because when you put him on twos you take away some of that strength and length advantage. So if hes in the backcourt with a a bigger guard then he would be awesome in that Manu scoring role off the bench.

[Thompson]

He's a great athlete, has a huge wingspan, and looks ripped and strong. If he's 180, I'll eat my hat. The boy's got GUNS.

One thing to remember is that Hill has around 3% body fat. That means that compared to someone with 6.5% body fat (more common) at 180 pounds, Hill is carrying around up to 6 more pounds of muscle/less pounds of fat (bone probably factors in too).

The thing that's really impressive about Hill's build is as you mentioned that he has impressive amounts of muscle in his arms even though he has a huge 6' 9" wingspan. Muscle usually isn't as noticeable when it's spread out over that length, but he still looks somewhat built.

I think I also noticed somewhere that Hill was listed at 190 (though I've seen 180 usually).

[Manufan909]

Very good post, Darkwaters
Yeah if Oberto doesn't start rebounding, that's a definite possibility to be the starting lineup. Regarding Bonner's defense, he's actually been very good at that end -- especially in the last six games. Sometimes I don't believe my own eyes when it comes to Bonner's defense because it's different from what we've come to expect out of a bigman defender on the Spurs. Instead of blocking shots and dominating the glass, he uses his deceptively quick feet to bust pick and rolls and then he uses his strength to push bigmen out of the comfort zones.

SO would you say Bonner is the 2nd best defensive AND offensive big man the Spurs have right now? Cuz I believe you, I just haven't noticed his D over the past several games like you have.

[Thompson]

Hill is listed at 180 on the NBA website and at 190 on the Yahoo! Sports page.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4488

Also, anyone know how long Hill's going to wear that bandage on his thumb? Is it still hurting him, or is it just precautionary?

[timvp]

SO would you say Bonner is the 2nd best defensive AND offensive big man the Spurs have right now? Cuz I believe you, I just haven't noticed his D over the past several games like you have.

Yeah, I'd say that. Although for the Spurs sake, we should hope that Oberto and KT at least close the gap defensively. If the Spurs enter the playoffs with Bonner as their second best defensive big, that would be scary.

[Darkwaters]

The most exciting thing about recently is the ascension of Mason. As good as Hill has been his role in the future is not going to be as big as RMJ's. Mason is our future at shooting guard at the young age of 28. As Manu declines he'll be a valuable hedge against decreased productivity. Manu's minutes can be managed and Mason's increased as needed for several years. But Hill's value is not decreased because of lack of skill or potential...more importantly a lack of necessity. Manu is going to decline quicker than Tony...thats just fact.

Although, I think Hill does create some new issues though. Hes good. Very good. But Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and Roger Mason are all better. So when you have a wealth of talent in your backcourt how do you spread it around? Playing 3 guards would work against some lineups. But managing minutes is going to be tough if Hill continues to improve. As troublesome as it is though, I love having this problem.

Heres another tough question:
With the gang all back next year (Parker, Hill, Mason, Ginobili, Finley, Bowen) and James Gist probably coming over as well....does Udoka fit into our plans? I guess the question is really: "How good is James Gist" and "Is he a SF or a PF". But it is a question as vexing as the "Do we resign Francisco?" question from last year.

[timvp]

Hill is listed at 180 on the NBA website and at 190 on the Yahoo! Sports page.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4488

At his pre-draft measurement, he was 6-foot-2.5 with shoes on and weighed 181 pounds. He also has a 6-foot-9 wingspan, an 8-foot-1.5 standing reach, a 37.5 vertical and the 3.0 body fat percentage you mentioned.

His freakishly long wingspan makes him play more like he's 6-foot-5. Hill's wingspan is actually bigger than Bonner's and even Matt Barnes.

Also, anyone know how long Hill's going to wear that bandage on his thumb? Is it still hurting him, or is it just precautionary?

The doctors have told him he can take it off but Hill said he wants to wear it for the extra support.

[Manufan909]

The most exciting thing about recently is the ascension of Mason. As good as Hill has been his role in the future is not going to be as big as RMJ's. Mason is our future at shooting guard at the young age of 28. As Manu declines he'll be a valuable hedge against decreased productivity. Manu's minutes can be managed and Mason's increased as needed for several years. But Hill's value is not decreased because of lack of skill or potential...more importantly a lack of necessity. Manu is going to decline quicker than Tony...thats just fact.

Although, I think Hill does create some new issues though. Hes good. Very good. But Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and Roger Mason are all better. So when you have a wealth of talent in your backcourt how do you spread it around? Playing 3 guards would work against some lineups. But managing minutes is going to be tough if Hill continues to improve. As troublesome as it is though, I love having this problem.

From all I've heard he is a PF, but I hope he can play SF for us, it shouldn't be too hard.

And timvp, I know Bonner being the 2nd best defensive big in the PO's is scary, that's what Ian is for.

[The Truth #6]

Another thing about Hill getting to the line - just in the last few games he seems to have gained the respect of the refs. Maybe, I'm crazy but it seems like he's already getting calls the last few games that he wasn't getting at the beginning of the year. Also, he seems to have learned from Manu in the way that he sells the call (flop if you must) when he gets bumped driving around a pick. At first I thought he was just always getting bumped but as strong as he is I think he's actually already learned how to sell the call. Not bad for a rookie after only about 10 games.

Another thing about him getting to the line - he actually gets one or two fouls a game after he steals the ball and they foul him out of frustration or to stop a breakaway. In that sense, it's his defense that is getting him to the line. In my mind, that's even more impressive. I wonder what his steals per minute are? I would think he does pretty well considering how much havoc he creates on the defensive end.

[Obstructed_View]

SO would you say Bonner is the 2nd best defensive AND offensive big man the Spurs have right now? Cuz I believe you, I just haven't noticed his D over the past several games like you have.

Bonner's defense has been good all year. He just started out defending Amare, Aldridge, Dirk, Harrington and Beasley. That's a tough matchup to start the season, particularly when nobody else was playing defense.

[Whisky Dog]

Sleep is the cousin of death.

Only if you're in the New York State of Mind.

[z0sa]

Bonner's defense has been good all year. He just started out defending Amare, Aldridge, Dirk, Harrington and Beasley. That's a tough matchup to start the season, particularly when nobody else was playing defense.

And he about shut Amare down til Kurt decided it was Foul:30.

Dirk, Bowen could have played better D, bout it.

Aldridge didn't do very well at all.

The Miami game was lost by two points not counting the first quarter run.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

With the gang all back next year (Parker, Hill, Mason, Ginobili, Finley, Bowen) and James Gist probably coming over as well....does Udoka fit into our plans? I guess the question is really: "How good is James Gist" and "Is he a SF or a PF". But it is a question as vexing as the "Do we resign Francisco?" question from last year.

I'm ready to get rid of Udoka if the right deal comes along, with no hesitation. He's reminding of 1st and 2nd year Barry; good player, but just can't seem to get it right with us. Except I doubt he'll be given a 3rd and 4th year to make up for it.

I think we should package Udoka with Oberto or Thomas (whoever is doing worse near the deadline) for another big. Among bigs I would prefer are Pachulia, Sean Williams, or Joe Smith.

[duncan228]

I'm disappointed with Udoka. I had hoped that with a training camp and more time in the system under his belt that we would see more from him this year. I like the guy, I think he's got a decent game that could have fit in well with this team. I hope he can turn it around but I'm not seeing it so far.

[Spurs Brazil]

I'm disappointed with Udoka. I had hoped that with a training camp and more time in the system under his belt that we would see more from him this year. I like the guy, I think he's got a decent game that could have fit in well with this team. I hope he can turn it around but I'm not seeing it so far.

+1

My disappointed with Ime started on last year LA series when he played pathetic D

[exstatic]

I'm disappointed with Udoka. I had hoped that with a training camp and more time in the system under his belt that we would see more from him this year. I like the guy, I think he's got a decent game that could have fit in well with this team. I hope he can turn it around but I'm not seeing it so far.

+1 I think he'll get another shot this year, though, when Finley crawls back into his s with the inevitable drop in his playing time. We'll need Ime's rebounding for small ball sets. He gets 3.3 in 18+ minutes. Finley needs almost 30 minutes to pull that. Right now, Fin's shooting is tipping the balance in his favor, but he's never shot well in limited minutes in his time here, and his defense and rebounding are atrocious.

[T Park]

+1 I think he'll get another shot this year, though, when Finley crawls back into his s with the inevitable drop in his playing time. We'll need Ime's rebounding for small ball sets. He gets 3.3 in 18+ minutes. Finley needs almost 30 minutes to pull that. Right now, Fin's shooting is tipping the balance in his favor, but he's never shot well in limited minutes in his time here, and his defense and rebounding are atrocious.

actually Fin's defense and rebounding this year have been pretty good.