Abortions For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, your sex life has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with abortion.

I know you know this, but it makes for interesting fodder to ponder why your intentions matter in the least when it comes arguing where to draw the line in the sand.

It's as if you are better than those who resort to abortion.

You did look at the Chalupa post above mine right?

Joe said I would feel differently in that situation, and I said I would never put myself in it. You can't see relevance?

And if they don't matter in the least why make an issue about them by replying with it quoted?

But, I do feel I am better than those who use abortion as birth control. You can, disagree, that is your opinion and this is mine.

[Nbadan]

More from the crazies who think that if only women knew that being pregnant means that you are on the road to having a baby of your very own, then you certainly would never consider getting an abortion.

BOISE - Republican Representative Ann Rydalch wants the state to require doctors to show women pictures of a fetus before an abortion. But her legislation may not be supported by all of the state's anti-abortion groups.

Rydalch's bill also would force doctors to give women information about abortion alternatives, and tell them that abortion could increase the risk for breast cancer. The National Ins utes of Health denies any link between abortion and breast cancer, however.

"Informed consent" is an anti-choice catchphrase that has absolutely nothing to do with the traditionally understanding of what information is--you know, the whole facts and truths stuff that the rest of us think of when we think of being "informed". Telling women that they are going to get breast cancer if they have an abortion is lies, not information. You might as well tell them that if they dare abort, god will curse them for life by making toads and snakes fly out of their mouths when they speak.

As for the pictures thing, I doubt the pictures that Rep. Rydalch wants to show of fetuses would be constrained to pictures of fetuses at the same point in the pregnancy that most women are aborting at. It just doesn't have the same impact to show a one-month fetus that doesn't resemble a human as it does to show an 8-month one.

These proposed laws that treat women like ignorant children that need to be scolded in order to get an abortion get sillier all the time. What next? A law stating that a woman has to sincerely promise never to fornicate again before she earns her Cons utional right to terminate her pregnancy?

Mousewords.blogspot

[NeoConIV]

Spare me the legalese Dan, abortion stops a beating heart, abortion is murder.

[NameDropper]

Maybe we should require all cigarette vendors to show pictures of a cancer filled lung before they sell a pack of smokes.
Liquor stores must shows a picture of a damaged liver.
Pharmacy workers must show pictures of STD's before they sell condoms or birth control devices.
Bakery's must show pictures of obese people before they can sell any donuts.

[IcemanCometh]

So neocon if abortion is muder what should the penalty be.

[NeoConIV]

Abortionist, woman having abortion, and anyone complicit in encouraging the murder, should be prosecuted for murder, since that's what it is, and should face the normal sentance for murder.

If we could phase in this proper and moral paradigm, and get out of our current tragically incorrect paradigm of legal murder, that would be a good thing.

STOP THE KILLING OF OUR MOST INNOCENT. STOP THE HOLOCAUST.

[NeoConIV]

And for the love of God, can you get rid of that work unfriendly sig of yours Ice?

It was funny the first time I saw it...the novelty has completely worn off...

[JoeChalupa]

I heard this morning on KTSA about a woman who got pregnant with her mate's sperm and they didn't even have intercourse..? I found that hard to swallow until I found out she didn't. That sucks!

The dude just found about it, 2 years after.

Has nothing to do with this topic..just found it odd.

[dcole50]

Abortionist, woman having abortion, and anyone complicit in encouraging the murder, should be prosecuted for murder, since that's what it is, and should face the normal sentance for murder.

If we could phase in this proper and moral paradigm, and get out of our current tragically incorrect paradigm of legal murder, that would be a good thing.

STOP THE KILLING OF OUR MOST INNOCENT. STOP THE HOLOCAUST.

even for situations involving rape? that is a case where i believe there should be an exception.

[Jekka]

I believe that partial-birth abortions are wrong, and to some degree, so are second trimester abortions (although I understand that in some cases women may have to wait that long to either the money together, etc) but really, I think that if you haven't had an abortion by the end of the first trimester then you need to just stick it out and have the baby - there's adoption if you don't feel that you have the means necessary to raise a child (this is coming from someone who is adopted - adoption does work, but I do not feel that it is a subs ute for abortion). Abortion is a woman's choice, it's her body, but she does need to get her in gear if she plans on having one. The way partial birth abortions are performed are such that I can't see anyone wanting to have one unless their life is in danger.

When birth control becomes more accessible and acceptable (and sex education becomes adequate) for a greater percentage of the population then my views on the acceptability of abortion may change - but a woman should not be forced to go through a pregnancy and give birth to a child just because she decided to be sexually active. That's ridiculous. And don't get me started on how ty a lot of fathers are for their children that they wouldn't let their women abort or wouldn't help pay for an abortion or just disappeared after getting them pregnant - and don't get me started on the stigma attached to female sexuality in a patriarchal society - because a lot of it comes down to that as well. If men were the ones that got pregnant, we wouldn't have to fight about whether or not it was okay to have abortions in most cases.

[travis2]

I believe that partial-birth abortions are wrong, and to some degree, so are second trimester abortions (although I understand that in some cases women may have to wait that long to either the money together, etc) but really, I think that if you haven't had an abortion by the end of the first trimester then you need to just stick it out and have the baby - there's adoption if you don't feel that you have the means necessary to raise a child (this is coming from someone who is adopted - adoption does work, but I do not feel that it is a subs ute for abortion). Abortion is a woman's choice, it's her body, but she does need to get her in gear if she plans on having one. The way partial birth abortions are performed are such that I can't see anyone wanting to have one unless their life is in danger.

When birth control becomes more accessible and acceptable (and sex education becomes adequate) for a greater percentage of the population then my views on the acceptability of abortion may change - but a woman should not be forced to go through a pregnancy and give birth to a child just because she decided to be sexually active. That's ridiculous. And don't get me started on how ty a lot of fathers are for their children that they wouldn't let their women abort or wouldn't help pay for an abortion or just disappeared after getting them pregnant - and don't get me started on the stigma attached to female sexuality in a patriarchal society - because a lot of it comes down to that as well. If men were the ones that got pregnant, we wouldn't have to fight about whether or not it was okay to have abortions in most cases.

Well, then don't get me started about women who choose to be sexually active but expect to be able to put the male into indentured servitude if she chooses to have the child without his consent.

The myth of "choice" is that the pro-abortionists have no problem whatsoever forcing someone else to do something. Hypocrisy is a virtue, evidently.

[JoeChalupa]

Well, then don't get me started about women who choose to be sexually active but expect to be able to put the male into indentured servitude if she chooses to have the child without his consent.

The myth of "choice" is that the pro-abortionists have no problem whatsoever forcing someone else to do something. Hypocrisy is a virtue, evidently.

If a man has sex with a woman he is "consenting" that there is a chance she may get pregnant. If a man doesn't want to be placed in that situation then go home and beat it.

[Jekka]

Well, then don't get me started about women who choose to be sexually active but expect to be able to put the male into indentured servitude if she chooses to have the child without his consent.

The myth of "choice" is that the pro-abortionists have no problem whatsoever forcing someone else to do something. Hypocrisy is a virtue, evidently.

Hey, it was the man's choice to have sex in this scenario as well - don't lecture me on hypocrisy.

[travis2]

If a man has sex with a woman he is "consenting" that there is a chance she may get pregnant. If a man doesn't want to be placed in that situation then go home and beat it.

If a woman has sex with a man she is "consenting" that there is a chance she may get pregnant. If a woman doesn't want to be placed in that situation, then go home and use a vibrator.

[travis2]

Hey, it was the man's choice to have sex in this scenario as well - don't lecture me on hypocrisy.

You missed the point.

The responsibility is shared. Everyone always wants to talk about the woman's choice to have the child...but it's the man's responsibility to support it.

This is actually logical to you?

[NeoConIV]

I just don't know how one can rationalize and dance around the central fact that abortion is murder.

[travis2]

I just don't know how one can rationalize and dance around the central fact that abortion is murder.

Neo, I agree with you. I'm just trying to point out the logical inconsistency of the "choice" argument as currently presented.

[MannyIsGod]

Neo, it's not dancing around. A group of cells is not a human anymore than a culture of cells from the inside of your mouth is. I do not commit murder when I cut my hair, and I do not commit murder when I jack off.

[Jekka]

You missed the point.

The responsibility is shared. Everyone always wants to talk about the woman's choice to have the child...but it's the man's responsibility to support it.

This is actually logical to you?

You act like the woman gives birth, hands the child to the father and says, "Sayonara". It's a shared responsibility to support a child - what is this whole "man's responsibility" in bold about? Post-partum disappearance is not a frequently do ented condition that I am aware of.

[NeoConIV]

Neo, it's not dancing around. A group of cells is not a human anymore than a culture of cells from the inside of your mouth is. I do not commit murder when I cut my hair, and I do not commit murder when I jack off.

Scientifically, that's utter nonsense, given the very basics of human reproduction.

[travis2]

You act like the woman gives birth, hands the child to the father and says, "Sayonara". It's a shared responsibility to support a child - what is this whole "man's responsibility" in bold about? Post-partum disappearance is not a frequently do ented condition that I am aware of.

Scenario: A man and a woman engage in consensual sex.

If the woman wants the child, but not the man, she has the choice to keep it, and legally force the man to support it for the next 18 years.

If the man wants the child, but not the woman, she has the choice to abort it regardless of the wishes of the father.

The "pro-choice" movement accepts these two outcomes as logically consistent.

The "pro-choice" movement can be succinctly described using the following statement (by the woman): "My body is completely my own and I can do anything I wish with it. No one can force me to do anything. However, this choice only applies to me, not to you."


Jekka, the fact is, as I see it, when a man and a woman agree to have sex, and the woman gets pregnant, then both the man and the woman have a responsibility to that child. The points I brought up are an attempt to show just how logically and ethically inconsistent the "choice" arguments truly are. They are not an attempt by me to advocate fathers abandoning their children. Actually, it's an attempt by me to advocate both parents "growing up" and accepting responsibility for their joint actions.

[Spurminator]

Let's say that because of a new law, a woman is pulled over for failing to fasten her seat belt and is told that, as punishment, she is required to host a fetus until birth. The original mother had passed away shortly after conception, but doctors managed to save the fetus. However, the fetus needs a host mother (particularly one with this woman's rare blood type) or it will die. The new law requires that any woman caught speeding is required to be a host Mother.

Is this a fair law? These women KNOW what they're risking when they speed... and besides, they don't need to speed. They should be driving the speed limit.

[Jekka]

I forgot to login.

[JoeChalupa]

You missed the point.

The responsibility is shared. Everyone always wants to talk about the woman's choice to have the child...but it's the man's responsibility to support it.

This is actually logical to you?

Any man who won't take responsibility for their child is no man in my book.

But I get your point.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm anti-abortion, pro-choice.


Where is Yonivore?