This issue with Spurs is not the Bigs!!

[dbestpro]

Most of the posts in regards to the Spurs bigs are by knowledgeable fans. We are not looking to compete we are looking to win. We know that our bigs will have trouble with the more athletic inside teams that we will face in the playoffs. We are not looking for an allstar big. We are looking for an athletic big that can compensate for the lack of inside foot speed or quickness. This lack of inside quickness is the reason we suck wind on many defensive rebounds. Could it be Ian? He has a fair chance. If not, we still have this one weakness in our team.

After December 15 there will be trades by teams who have fell off the map and want to shed salary so better players (not looking for an allstar) can be had for lesser players. We have enough depth and some decent contracts that if Ian does not pan out that we will still be in the market for an athletic big.

[MarHill]

I for one, think you yell too in much. Tone it down. I didn't even read your post after all your "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". Get a grip. If your logic is undeniable, you don't need "!!!!!!".

First of all, I was not yelling at any one by using exclamation points. I always use them in my sentences.

I could see if i was typing in all UPPERCASE LETTERS. Then I would be yelling.

I was bringing up a different argument and that's fine for the ones who have responded to the thread and disagree with me. No problem!!

Excuse me!!

[mrspurs]

Most of the posts in regards to the Spurs bigs are by knowledgeable fans. We are not looking to compete we are looking to win. We know that our bigs will have trouble with the more athletic inside teams that we will face in the playoffs. We are not looking for an allstar big. We are looking for an athletic big that can compensate for the lack of inside foot speed or quickness. This lack of inside quickness is the reason we suck wind on many defensive rebounds. Could it be Ian? He has a fair chance. If not, we still have this one weakness in our team.

After December 15 there will be trades by teams who have fell off the map and want to shed salary so better players (not looking for an allstar) can be had for lesser players. We have enough depth and some decent contracts that if Ian does not pan out that we will still be in the market for an athletic big.

Agreed, we dont need a big to build our future with. Just someone like Ian. I wonder if Ian knows he's the man holding the spurs future this season?

[MarHill]

Thou you took the time to type alot of things that make sense. What your forgetting are the words that come straight from Timmy. We just couldnt make any stops. Have you forgot how easily teams made uncontested layups and ally-oops? Noone in here has. All teams go through periods when the ball just wont go in. The teams that continue to win like the Lakers and the Celtics did it by making stops. And all stops start under the paint. So, once again alot of nice typing. But your dead wrong.

Okay, you make a good point about what Timmy said from his own mouth. But the defense has been top ten since 2003....so while other teams were making uncontested layups and ally-oops.....last year's bigger problem was scoring.

Perfect example...game 1 of the WCF. The Spurs had a 20 point lead in the second half and they end up losing the game (and I believe that was the game to decide that series.) Also, I believe they had a sizeable lead in game 5 of that series as well.

The Spurs held the Lakers to 89 points in the game and I believe averaged about 93 points in that series. So the defense was there even though....they were some breakdowns. If there was more scoring from the bench outside the Real Big 3 then it could have been a different series.

That's why the development of Hill and Mason are more important to me than getting another big.....because their added scoring will be able to keep a lead or increase it when they are on the floor with other teams 2nd units.

[mrspurs]

Notice how well this thread went. Everyone basically making comments without anyone having to copy and paste mickey mouse stats. (to defend their feelings). Cussing and making childish comments. And looks whos missing in this thread. Yeah you know who yall are. That should spell it out to ya. Be nice to have more interesting threads then those power posters who cant control their keyboards. Im always looking forward to threads like these. Chumps threads are helpful as well. Its nice to know where our center is playing and how hes playing.

[lotr1trekkie]

Mahimni WAS supposed to be that other BIG. Wait until he returns and let's see. Obviously Tim is the only BIG who can protect the rim. Horry could. If Mahimni can do only that he is a great asset come playoff time.

[MarHill]

This is exactly why we will get pounded in the paint. And mystartr34 hit it on the money. We were better with Elson and then they traded him for a shorter, slower, over the hill scrub Kurt. If you think we're gonna win a 7 game series from beyond the arc, while at the sametime not being able to make any stops in the paint. Just because we can outscore some of the worst teams in the NBA right now, doesnt mean the better teams are gonna let us score at will. Teams will let us try and win from beyond the arc. Thats been our Mojo since we cant find another big. And in the end, when the games begin to count. Timmy will be left out to hang by himself with this current roster. We just dont have the talent to compete in a 7 game series yet. But its still early. The FO must find a way to loose the worthless bigs they currently have. The west is filled with giants and we got Timmy and Roger and Hill as our bigs.

Again, when Manu(except TP) when down we didn't have anyone that could create their own shot off the dribble and get better shots for others. That was the problem.

Now, with the development of Hill and Mason...who create their own shot off the dribble and get into the lane that adds another weapon or weapons when they are on the floor with Manu and Tony and for the second unit.

I disagree with you to say we don't have the talent to compete in a 7 game series with the Lakers and Celtics. The playoffs are about matchups and when you can't score in big stretches of playoff games that will you hurt more than just finding another serviceable big.

And the more firepower you have....better the team will be!!!

[Brazil]

I don't really get your post. You are saying that developing another scorer behind the big three is a priority over getting a big but as Bottomtooth said, that is already happening and will continue to happen whether or not we bring another big in. But since the thread le states that bigs is not an issue with us, here are few fun facts.

Oberto - 3.1rpg
Thomas - 3.8rpg
Bonner - 3.4rpg

We have been outrebounded in 9 of our first 14 games.

We need another big.

Thinking well with what we have, being outrebounded in 9 of our first 14 games is not so bad.

Anyway I think that we are going to have a good surprise of KT, he has made a good rebounding game against Menphis, the Diesel is beginning to warm.

[anakha]

Chumps threads are helpful as well. Its nice to know where our center is playing and how hes playing.

I dont need that chump(why he's on my ignore list) to tell me Ian wasnt ready.

[Brazil]

Thinking well with what we have, being outrebounded in 9 of our first 14 games is not so bad.

Anyway I think that we are going to have a good surprise of KT, he has made a good rebounding game against Menphis, the Diesel is beginning to warm.

well Chicago of course but I take that as a good signal for the game against Menphis.

[MarHill]

Notice how well this thread went. Everyone basically making comments without anyone having to copy and paste mickey mouse stats. (to defend their feelings). Cussing and making childish comments. And looks whos missing in this thread. Yeah you know who yall are. That should spell it out to ya. Be nice to have more interesting threads then those power posters who cant control their keyboards. Im always looking forward to threads like these. Chumps threads are helpful as well. Its nice to know where our center is playing and how hes playing.

Thanks Mr. Spurs!!!!!

I don't mind having a discussion (even if others think I'm wrong). I believe this is what a forum is all about.

Also, I don't have to cuss or call other people names if I think their wrong. That's childish and immature!! (oh by the way..I'm not yelling at you for using exclamation points at the end of my sentences! Sheesh!!!!)

Life is too short for that kind of stuff.

I'm all for a good discussion and a spirited debate especially about everyone's favorite NBA team here in South Texas!!

[benefactor]

Notice how well this thread went. Everyone basically making comments without anyone having to copy and paste mickey mouse stats. (to defend their feelings). Cussing and making childish comments. And looks whos missing in this thread. Yeah you know who yall are. That should spell it out to ya. Be nice to have more interesting threads then those power posters who cant control their keyboards. Im always looking forward to threads like these. Chumps threads are helpful as well. Its nice to know where our center is playing and how hes playing.

I have noticed that you still have no idea where the "Enter" key is or how to properly construct sentences. Coupling those things with you just being plain annoying makes you almost unbearable.

To make it simple...you have no place calling out any posters here for any reason, for the plank is large in your own eye.

[Bruno]

I do agree with the thread starter. Scoring was a way bigger need for Spurs than another big.

If things don't change, Spurs will have 4 perimeter scorer (Ginobili, Parker, Mason and Hill), 2 good shooters (Finley and Bonner) and 1 post presence (Duncan). It's enough and Spurs don't really need scoring from the other players.

I'm far from sure that Spurs needs another shot blocker. To me, linking shot blocking with being a good interior defender is almost as stupid as linking steal with being a good perimeter defender.
Most shot blockers are good at that because they leave their man to defend the rim. Given that the big next to Duncan will defend on the best opposite big, I rather see him sticking with him than trying to block everything. Letting players like Gasol or Garnett wide open isn't a that good idea.

When you look at the rebounding, you had to split the defensive and the offensive side.
Spurs were last year the best defensive rebounding team of the NBA history (at least the recent one). Despite Duncan having his worst rebounding season and Spurs bigs not rebounding well, Spurs are the second best defensive rebounding team in the league this year.
On the other hand, Spurs are the worst offensive rebounding team in the league. While if Thomas and Oberto did a better job at rebounding the ball, Spurs would be better at that you had to understand that Spurs have chosen to be a bad offensive rebounding team. Perimeter players are focused on transition defense and a player like Bonner, who stays on the perimeter to stretch the defense, can't be a good offensive rebounder.

Oberto and Thomas have been quite bad this year, but if they are back at last year level, Spurs will be fine except against mobile bigs. If Mahinmi can play OK defense against mobile bigs (He doesn't need to be an all star), Spurs bigs will be fine and a trade won't be needed. The situation isn't as bad as people think.

[Galileo]

I agree with the substance of this post.

Mahimni has the athleticism of an elite big, plus he is being trained by the best; Tim Duncan and CIA Pop.

When we get Ian Mahimni in there, we will have six great scoring options (TD, TP, Manu, Hill, Mason, Ian), and two elite big men. I see the next three NBA les coming our way.

We will kick the crap out of New York, Lebron, and Bosh in the 2011 finals!

[mrspurs]

I do agree with the thread starter. Scoring was a way bigger need for Spurs than another big.

If things don't change, Spurs will have 4 perimeter scorer (Ginobili, Parker, Mason and Hill), 2 good shooters (Finley and Bonner) and 1 post presence (Duncan). It's enough and Spurs don't really need scoring from the other players.

I'm far from sure that Spurs needs another shot blocker. To me, linking shot blocking with being a good interior defender is almost as stupid as linking steal with being a good perimeter defender.
Most shot blockers are good at that because they leave their man to defend the rim. Given that the big next to Duncan will defend on the best opposite big, I rather see him sticking with him than trying to block everything. Letting players like Gasol or Garnett wide open isn't a that good idea.

When you look at the rebounding, you had to split the defensive and the offensive side.
Spurs were last year the best defensive rebounding team of the NBA history (at least the recent one). Despite Duncan having his worst rebounding season and Spurs bigs not rebounding well, Spurs are the second best defensive rebounding team in the league this year.
On the other hand, Spurs are the worst offensive rebounding team in the league. While if Thomas and Oberto did a better job at rebounding the ball, Spurs would be better at that you had to understand that Spurs have chosen to be a bad offensive rebounding team. Perimeter players are focused on transition defense and a player like Bonner, who stays on the perimeter to stretch the defense, can't be a good offensive rebounder.

Oberto and Thomas have been quite bad this year, but if they are back at last year level, Spurs will be fine except against mobile bigs. If Mahinmi can play OK defense against mobile bigs (He doesn't need to be an all star), Spurs bigs will be fine and a trade won't be needed. The situation isn't as bad as people think.

My guess is that Pop has been so into getting Hill and Roger blending into the system that Pop hasnt begun to make a role for a center yet. I dont like Fab or Kurt (as basketball players), but they both were playing better last season then this one. But look at their minutes and you can see how inconsistent the minutes are. Im guessing when Ian gets back, then Pop will be able to make some kind of role for our center position. Cos I just dont see a center out there playing. We're playing with 2 PFs and one is normally behind the arc. It will be nice when that change comes to play. It would be a waste of talent to not try and find someone who can play next to Tim. Not away from Tim. And Im not gonna say its still early anymore. Next year is around the corner.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We've got Hill and Mason, and are in the process of adding Manu and Tony back.

Scoring isn't the problem, it's the lack of production at the 3 and especially the 5 spot.

Our rebounding and interior defense are our biggest issues and will continue to be until our bigs either step up or we make a trade. Oh, and we don't know jack about what Ian's going to be capable of, lol at people already counting on him to contribute anything other than a couple of fouls a game at this point.

[Spurminator]

No matter how many scorers we have, we're going to have scoring droughts in the Playoffs. During these droughts, it will be important to make it difficult for the other team to score, and it's hard to do that when you're giving up a lot of offensive rebounds.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to which is more important. We needed another scorer to reduce the frequency of our scoring droughts and we needed someone who can help Duncan on the glass and in the paint. Right now it looks like we've improved in one of those areas.

[MrChug]

First of all, I was not yelling at any one by using exclamation points. I always use them in my sentences.

I could see if i was typing in all UPPERCASE LETTERS. Then I would be yelling.

I was bringing up a different argument and that's fine for the ones who have responded to the thread and disagree with me. No problem!!

Excuse me!!

This place doesn't allow you to use all caps so try again.

...anyways, you probably make some sense (maybe not) but I'm not sticking around to figure it out.

[romad_20]

Scoring was the problem last year. Our defense was fine against the Lakers but as soon as they got rolling and we couldn't keep up, the energy was gone. A lot of that had to do with Manu being hurt. If Tony and Manu are both healthy that's not as big of a problem. The addition of Hill and Mason's scoring will help us avoid those 5-7 min droughts.

As far as rebounding and defending, we absolutely need help, but Hill is quite capable as a rebounding guard and Manu isn't half bad either when he's healthy. The bigger concern is someone who can defend Pau and other bigs that have quickness going to the basket. If Ian can do that, then I think this roster is pretty good and has just as good chance as any other in the west.

Bottom line, we still have 2-3 months before we see what this team will really be.

[galvatron3000]

I've been reading the posts lately and everybody thinks the big hole or weakness with the Spurs is the big that can block shots, rebound and defend people like Odom, David West..etc!

Actually, I'm looking at last season. Though they had troubles with those issues and defending those players..but I must write the bigger issue was with scoring.

They went through terrible droughts scoring and wound-up getting blown-out in several regular season games. The games at New Orleans, Utah, and the last Lakers regular season game come to mind.

While I agree, we could use another big to fill that hole. But, I have to differ with everybody else and write the bigger issue was scoring outside the Real Big Three and getting some athleticism in the second unit.

So the development of Hill and Mason are so important to me than getting another big (i.e. Ian or many of the numerous trade proposals presented by many on this forum). Because they can get own shot off the dribble (Mason) and get into the lane (Hill).

I felt when Manu when down in the WCF last year...it's exposed the Spurs' main weakness as scoring because outside of Tony Parker there was no one else that could create their own shot of the dribble and help get others better shots because of getting in the lane.

What does the rest of the forum think?

(It's Time for Number Five!!!!!)

Here's the thing that you fail to mention in disregarding rebounds, if a team is killing the glass as the Lakers did against the Spurs in the playoffs then you can score all day long but the Lakers got so many more opportunities (without Bynum) because of missed rebounds, freakish rebounds and just plain hustle rebounds on the part of the Lakers that it was over. The Spurs' defense without rebounding is null and void. Anyone who plays defense and has a calling card of defense and doesn't get their rebound is not who they say they are. Defense ends with rebounds or a possession. Not before but after. Of course the Spurs needed scoring but that problem became more glaring when Ginobili was injured and no one could help on the glass. Rebounding is the missing ingredient that has to be addressed right now, scoring should be okay with the new additions, hopefully but rebounding puts the team in more of a hole because you expend some much energy on the d side of the ball and to not come up with a rebound over and over again after forcing misses and bad shots is a morality drain. Tweak the offense to get more movement so when guys who created (Manu/Parker) are hurt you can still get easy baskets for everyone but not rebounding is a player talent issue.

[xtremesteven33]

In the words of Pat Riley:

"No rebounds, No championships"

[Bruno]

Here's the thing that you failed to mention in disregarding rebounds, if a team is killing the glass as the Lakers did against the Spurs in the playoffs then you can score all day long the Lakers got so many more opportunities (without Bynum) because of missed rebounds, freakish rebounds and just plain hustle rebounds on the part of the Lakers that it was over. The Spurs' defense without rebounding is null and void. Anyone who plays defense and has a calling card of defense and doesn't get their rebound is not who they say they are. Defense ends with rebounds or a possession. Not before but after.

Spurs did a great job at limiting Lakers offensive rebounds. They did a better job than Utah, Denver or boston.

The idea that Spurs suck at limiting opponents offensive rebounds is plain wrong. I don't know why so much people think it.

[galvatron3000]

Spurs did a great job at limiting Lakers offensive rebounds. They did a better job than Utah, Denver or boston.

The idea that Spurs suck at limiting opponents offensive rebounds is plain wrong. I don't know why so much people think it.

because I watched them murder them when it counted, I don't know the numbers but when they played the seem to get timely rebounds over and over again. sometimes numbers lie so I can't account for the stats but watching Gasol and those guys continue to own the glass was something I complained about throughout that series

[Bruno]

because I watched them murder them when it counted, I don't know the numbers but when they played the seem to get timely rebounds over and over again. sometimes numbers lie so I can't account for the stats but watching Gasol and those guys continue to own the glass was something I complained about throughout that series

Numbers > your feeling.

[galvatron3000]

I just looked at the numbers from the Lakers series and the Lakers murdered us on the glass, especially the offensive glass, I wasn't talking about my feeling I was talking about what I saw as I qualified, I didn't know the numbers but I was surely aware of what I saw. For the record the Spurs have been getting beat on the glass all season which is a very real issue that will haunt them in the playoffs