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I think the proper comparison is 2005 Suns, we started 24-3 that season with an explosive offense and soft defense.
The 4headed monster of Parker/Hill/Manu/Mason is going to rear its beautiful head come January and other times we play LAL, and it's going to be great.
Oh yeah, and Tim Duncan STILL hasn't gone anywhere. He'll be dominating LA's ass just like always, only this time when they triple, there'll be plenty of offense to go around.
Cue Spurs D, and I think we've got something every Lakerfan is happily ignoring - for now.
I just wanted to throw in a +1.Phil Jackson isn't doing that good a job this year and quite frankly the players no longer respect him. BTW if Bynum had a jab at Popovich like he did with Phil, Pop will go all medieval on his ass.
I agree here as well. Kobe's BB Iq isn't like a Tim's. He can never understand when to dominate and when to defer. Example: 2008 Finals
I think the proper comparison is 2005 Suns, we started 24-3 that season with an explosive offense and soft defense.
21-3
/thread
You guys make me smile.......
Is this also the easiest early schedule in franchise history? More gifts from the League, enjoy em
Easy schedules to start the season are not gifts from the league, it makes it extremely hard to evaluate the team at the trade deadline. If LA was smart they'd swoop in and trade Marion for Odom before Cleveland gets Marion.
You guys do realize the Lakers are third in the league in points allowed per 100 possessions, which is ahead of the Spurs by 7 spots (we are 10th). So I'm not sure why everyone is knocking on their defense... Also, they may have had an easy schedule but against the good teams they have looked fine and compe ive in what little I have seen of them. They are our biggest threat in the postseason. I wouldn't call them a joke.
2009 Lakers PPG: 108
2005 Suns PPG: 110
2009 Lakers opposing PPG: 98
2005 Suns PPG: 102
2009 Lakers effective FG% allowed: .478
2005 Suns effective FG% allowed: .478
So aside from the fact LA has been a better defensive rebounding team (73%) than Phoenix (69%) was, the two teams are very similar, and I highly doubt LA maintains that defensive rebounding percentage once they play better teams.
No one calling them a joke, everyone's calling US a joke for thinking we'll be compe ive (again). I am coming to my own Spurs defense instead of ^this whole "oh no" type of response which cites no Spurs strongpoints, only Laker ones.
But luckily, the players ain't scared.
Their defense in November was good, now that teams are starting to figure out what their Achilles heel is and attack it their defense has returned to what it really is. And the "good teams" they beat are not teams many consider contenders. The Suns team I keep comparing them to beat middle of the road playoff teams like Denver, Houston, and Dallas with little doubt, and I don't think anyone here is questioning their ability to beat any of those teams.
You guys make some great points. They look alot like the Mavs and the Suns. The Lakers have too many flaws and poor defense, nothing for the Spurs to be worried about.
I do think the Lakers will get lucky again and beat the Celtics on Christmas Day.
There really aren't any valid comparisons to be made between this Laker team and the Suns and Mavs of old. More wishful thinking from delusional Spurs fan.
The defense will improve. This year they definitely have the personnel to play solid D and I expect them to once the playoffs roll around. This is a Phil Jackson team, they aren't going to start peaking in December. Spur fan of all people should know this because Pop paces the Spurs in a very similar manner.
No one thinks they're gonna be an easy out, dont get butthurt. They're favorites in the West and no one is denying that.
My problem is everyone has given them the 2009 WC championship banner already.
And oddly enough, Phoenix started 24-3 until they ran into a brick wall known as the Spurs' defense that year, LA will probably start 25-3 before they run into the brick wall known as the Celtics D. The similarities are endless.
The OP called them a joke.
And haven't you learned by now that everyone always counts us out? We are compe ive this season after everybody told us we wouldn't be. And in 2007, all we heard all year from the Suns and Mavs fans is how old our team was and how we weren't going to do anything and how the Mavs/Suns had taken over the reins.
Also, sorry to have to list Lakers strong points but some of the things said in this thread by fellow Spurs fans were so homer and ludicrous there had to be some voice of reason. I'm not saying the Lakers are some great defensive team because I don't think they are but I'm not so sure their defense is a joke.
Except THE LAKERS BEAT THE SPURS LAST SEASON 4-1 WITHOUT ANDREW BYNUM OR TREVOR ARIZA.
Man, wake the up kid.
Eh, 21-3, I will take it.
I have to point out the fallacy of the initial stat you use - opponents PPG. That's a reflection more of the tempo you play at, not the level of defense you play. Opponents FG% is a far more accurate barometer.
If you're judging by defenses, you have to take the entire body of work.
In key defensive rankings
- LA is 5th in opponents field goal percentage. Only teams above them are Bos, Cle, Den and Dal. SA is 20th.
- After last night, LA is 11th in opponents 3 percentage. Cle is 8, Bos 3. SA is 15th.
- LA is 2nd in opponents turnovers. Utah is 1st. Bos 3rd, Cle 4th. SA is dead last at 30th.
- Again on the PPG, its about tempo. LA is 1st in scoring offense, outscoring GS and NY. So they are 14th in opponents PPG (Cle and Bos 1-2, SA 6th). However LA is 2nd in differential (Cle 1, Bost 3, SA 9th).
Just some perspective.
Any team where Radman, Vujacic, and Gasol are considered rotation players doesn't have the personnel to play D. This thing most Phoenix fans and LA fans do where they say, "Just like the Spurs we'll just start playing D when the playoffs role around, you don't want to peak in December," makes no sense. The Spurs have proven they are capable of coasting through the regular season and turning the intensity up once the playoffs role around, LA has shown no indication their defense will magically "improve". Defense just doesn't improve for no reason.
I guess the OKC Thunder should be championship favorites, you don't want to peak in December, their defense will improve. Don't ask me why it will improve, but it will improve.
I agree, but that only helps my argument. The 2004-2005 Suns played a lot faster than LA, so opposing points per game would favor the 2009 Lakers over the 2005 Suns. Effective FG% factors in threes and free throws, and they have the same effective FG%. The Spurs are 12th while LA is 8th this year, but the Spurs D has proven an ability to get better over the course of a season, LA's D has gotten worse as this season progresses.
I wasn't talking about the Spurs. The Suns lost to the Spurs, the Lakers lost to the Celtics. YOU are the one who should wake up, I didn't say anything about LA losing to SA in that post.
The Fakers do have mental lapses on defense sometimes. The point guard defense is not good at all.
But overall, I think the Fakers are a decent defensive team. They play at the 3rd fastest tempo, so they will allow more PPG. If you adjust for the tempo of the game aka per100, you'll see a pace adjusted ranking.
Defensive Efficiency
I've never claimed the Lakers will beat the Celtics, in fact I think it's likely they lose to the Celtics.
The Celtic's defense is simply on another level compared with the rest of the league. The only hope is that Lebron manages to take them out because I know we CAN beat the Cavs in a 7 gamer.
For all I say about LA being overrated I think Cleveland is a lot more overrated, talk about easy schedule. I did hear they are very close to getting Shawn Marion for Wally and Verajao (wrong spelling but he sucks anyway so I don't care), and that might make them better against LA because Marion can guard Kobe well (I know my fellow Suns fans have called Bell the Kobe stopper over the years, but Marion has ALWAYS been a way better defender I don't care what everyone else says), but ultimately the fact they don't have any consistent post offense hurts them.
No I agree they do a great job at holding teams to a low percentage, their problem is as you said their PG defense and defensive rebounding. Also their PG defense is bad against PG's that really on speed, Fisher does as good a job as anyone on Steve Nash, Deron Williams and Chauncey Billups, their problem is against the Parkers Pauls and Rondos of the league. Fortunately for them the defensive rebounding won't matter too much against SA because SA is a bottom tier offensive rebounding team because they care more about getting back on, but against Boston it will pose a problem.
Last edited by DUNCANownsKOBE2; 12-17-2008 at 05:06 PM.
You are right on the defensive rebounding, they've been surprisingly poor at this. Pau/Bynum have been lazy on their boxing out and that certainly has to change. And the Lakers as a whole leak out a bit much rather than try to get the rebound.
This part is also true except I don't worry about Rondo. The Lakers played him right last year, they went under screens and let Rondo jumpshoot all night long. It really took him out of his game, he had a very poor series last year and I suspect they do the same for him this year. Let him have all the outside jumpers he wants. He only kills you when he can get in the paint.
Last edited by Allanon; 12-17-2008 at 05:10 PM.
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