Who's Best Since Merger? Spurs, Lakers, Bulls, Celts?

[FromWayDowntown]

That was 1999-2004. Short window there.

So your list has 2 teams that won 3 in 6 years and you think a team that won 3 les and 4 conference les over a 5 year span didn't last long enough to count towards the Lakers' successes?

Really?

[SpursDynasty]

So your list has 2 teams that won 3 in 6 years and you think a team that won 3 les and 4 conference les over a 5 year span didn't last long enough to count towards the Lakers' successes?

Really?

Those Celtics had 5 NBA Finals in 8 seasons, including 4 straight in 1984, 1985, 1986, and 1987. The reason I don't put the Shaq/Kobe/Phil Jackson Lakers on the list is because it took a Portland collapse in 2000, a rigged Kings series in 2002, and a bull Fisher shot in 2004 to even get those championships or conference championships. Take all of that out, and you're left with one championship in 2001.

Even then, it's still only 5 seasons of championship contention for the Lakers. The Bird Celtics contended for the championship for a longer span, as have the Spurs. Nothing against those Lakers, but they got things to go their way because of luck rather than actual skill.

[DrHouse]

The 2001 Lakers are hands down the best team since the 80's Lakers and Celtics.

Shaq in his absolute prime. Kobe in his athletic prime.

Incredible role players like Horry, Fox, and Fisher all playing at a high level. Once the Lakers started clicking at the end of the season they straight steam-rolled their way to the championship. I'm sure Spurs fans would love to forget the epic beatdown they received in the WCF that year the same way Lakers want to forget Game 6 last season.

[Galileo]

The 2001 Lakers are hands down the best team since the 80's Lakers and Celtics.

Every squirrel finds a nut.

[Lakers_55]

. The reason I don't put the Shaq/Kobe/Phil Jackson Lakers on the list is because it took a Portland collapse in 2000, a rigged Kings series in 2002, and a bull Fisher shot in 2004 to even get those championships or conference championships. Take all of that out, and you're left with one championship in 2001.

Fail, Fail, Fail.

You discredit the Lakers for the Portland collapse, but don't discredit the Celtics for our game 4 collapse in 2008. At least you credit the Lakers for the 80's where we came from 17 behind in game four at Boston in 1987. Both the latter two game 4's effectively ended the series, putting one team up 3-1 instead of 2-2 with game 5 on the road.

The series against the Kings wasn't rigged. I don't see any ref doing time for calls in that series. I do see one behind bars who reffed in a series in 2007 between the Suns and the team that eliminated them. If either was rigged, the latter series is more likely. However, no one goes there and I certainly won't. I didn't care what happened there, all I cared about was cheering on west in the finals and they didn't disappoint.

Fisher's shot in 2004 wasn't bull , you know that. Look in the archive thread about it, he should have had 0.6 to shoot, but he still did it in 0.4, and legally. As Shaq said postgame, one lucky shot deserves another.

[Yorae]

I just hope we don't regress, like the bulls after jordan left, by the time Duncan retires.

[Lakers_55]

I just hope we don't regress, like the bulls after jordan left, by the time Duncan retires.

Your history says you won't. Lakers and Spurs lead the NBA on rebuilding. Like death and taxes, both teams will be contending and winning les while the Celtics and Bulls far further behind.

[Russ]

As someone who was in Orlando the day Shaq left, I have to tell you that it's exponentially easier to get talent when you're in LA. Shaq took less money to go to the Lakers, and Orlando is only now starting to show signs of recovering.

Agreed but with one caveat.

The Spurs have always had an ultraloyal fan base which has helped offset some of the small market disadvantages.

For example, when Shaq indicated he would be testing free agency, the Orlando paper published a poll in which the majority of Orlando folks said essentially "good riddance."

When Duncan explored free agency, the city of SA engaged in an outpouring of love for TD which bordered upon beseeching. One guy even got on a billboard and vowed to stay there till Duncan re-signed with the Spurs.

Don't know if it made a difference, but it couldn't have hurt.

[DazedAndConfused]

As much as I hate to admit it, the Spurs will not become a garbage team once Duncan retires....at least not for long. They have great ownership and management, they will find a way to get good again.

[Obstructed_View]

I can't disagree with that. Still, the Lakers have been successful due to great ownership and GM's more than anything.

Jerry West is awesome, but he didn't exactly do anything when he was anywhere else. Trading Elmore Smith when his value was highest was pretty good, but everyone knew Kareem was going to end up back in LA. Again, it's easy to be a good owner when other teams can't even use their Bird rights to compete for their own free agents.

[Obstructed_View]

For example, when Shaq indicated he would be testing free agency, the Orlando paper published a poll in which the majority of Orlando folks said essentially "good riddance."

The poll actually asked if they thought Shaq was worth 100 million dollars. Put anybody on the planet's name on a poll worded like that, and you'll get an overwhelming no. Shaq didn't leave because of the fanbase, he wanted to be a Laker from the time he was at Cole and everybody knew it. Whoever won that draft lottery was going to lose him to the Lakers eventually. That's power that you can't buy. It's good for you if you're a Laker fan.

[Lakers_55]

Jerry West is awesome, but he didn't exactly do anything when he was anywhere else. Trading Elmore Smith when his value was highest was pretty good, but everyone knew Kareem was going to end up back in LA. Again, it's easy to be a good owner when other teams can't even use their Bird rights to compete for their own free agents.

Bill Sharman was still coaching the Lakers and Jerry West worked as a scout when Laker owner Jack Kent Cooke and I believe general manager Fred Schaus worked out the deal for Kareem in 1975. West retired as a player in 1974, and took Sharman's place as coach in 1976-7. Bill then moved up to GM. West replaced him later, I don't recall exactly when.

[Obstructed_View]

Fisher's shot in 2004 wasn't bull , you know that. Look in the archive thread about it, he should have had 0.6 to shoot, but he still did it in 0.4, and legally. As Shaq said postgame, one lucky shot deserves another.

There were .8 seconds on the clock when Timmy's shot went through the hoop. Fish also got his shot off in less than .4 anyway.

BTW, Shaq only said Duncan's shot was lucky because it was over him. Manu was man enough to say Fish's shot was a good play.

[Obstructed_View]

Bill Sharman was still coaching the Lakers and Jerry West worked as a scout when Laker owner Jack Kent Cooke and I believe general manager Fred Schaus worked out the deal for Kareem in 1975. West retired as a player in 1974, and took Sharman's place as coach in 1976-7. Bill then moved up to GM. West replaced him later, I don't recall exactly when.

That's correct. I didn't mean to imply that Zeke traded for Kareem.

[DazedAndConfused]

Duncan's shot just before Fisher's .4 WAS lucky. Not only was he well outside his range, he was fading back, and trying to shoot over Shaq who was playing picture perfect defense.

Fisher's shot was really just a catch and shoot off a curl. It was infinitely easier to make despite having 0.4 on the clock.

[Lakers_55]

That's correct. I didn't mean to imply that Zeke traded for Kareem.

Zeke from Cabin Creek! This off-topic discussion shows our ages, but that's ok. Sometimes, those yesteryears run together, easy to confuse them.

[exstatic]

Here in Chicago, the Bulls are a joke. They don't even talk about the team on the talk shows anymore, just about how horrible they are -- and Mr. Rose's bright future.

The Spurs have RARELY ever been out of the NBA's playoff picture as a fantastic team ever since Iceman. Every team has a few down years, but the Spurs are almost always a contender. The Bulls are LUCKY to make the playoffs.

If people listened to the talk radio here in Chicago, the dynasty of Mr. Jordan has long passed. It's over. Done. Doesn't count for much anymore.

I'd much rather compete every year.

FIFY

[Obstructed_View]

Duncan's shot just before Fisher's .4 WAS lucky. Not only was he well outside his range, he was fading back, and trying to shoot over Shaq who was playing picture perfect defense.

Fisher's shot was really just a catch and shoot off a curl. It was infinitely easier to make despite having 0.4 on the clock.

Duncan historically hits those shots, but since you refer to Fisher's shot as a "catch and shoot", as though he didn't fling it up with his left hand, we won't bother having the conversation. I already said Fisher's shot was good, but Shaq saying Duncan's shot was lucky is typical sour grapes for Shaq when he gets owned, and Lakers fans of all people should recognize that.

[jonnybravo]

As someone who was in Orlando the day Shaq left, I have to tell you that it's exponentially easier to get talent when you're in LA. Shaq took less money to go to the Lakers, and Orlando is only now starting to show signs of recovering.

Shaq did NOT take less money than the Orlando offer.

[jonnybravo]

Duncan historically hits those shots, but since you refer to Fisher's shot as a "catch and shoot", as though he didn't fling it up with his left hand, we won't bother having the conversation. I already said Fisher's shot was good, but Shaq saying Duncan's shot was lucky is typical sour grapes for Shaq when he gets owned, and Lakers fans of all people should recognize that.

Yeah, Duncan has a long, storied history of fadeing away from 21' and leaning towards his right.

They both were en prayers.