The only person that agreed with you is the biggest LBJ hater on this board. Just FYI.
It's okay that people don't agree with me.....I still believe it's premature to have called him the 2nd best SF ever..when his career isn't done.
We have a prisoner of the moment culture..especially when it comes to sports.
They are people who believe that Kobe is better than MJ. And they're wrong too!!
Lebron is the best small forward of all time, seriously.
The "championship" argument can blow me, it's just a matter of time before he wins multiple les anyway. Everyone knows it. He finally has his Robin (Mo) and the Cavs still have Wally's contract to add another piece.
But he hasn't won anything yet and you don't know how a career could go.
God forbid...he gets injured and that's it.
I'm sorry....you can't exclude championships if you want to be called the best SF ever. So that argument doesn't blow!
If the American Sports Culture is all about winning then you have to win it all at the highest level.
I can't tell if you're making fun of ducks or not, but since you put a question mark at the end, I'll assume you're serious.
I only call ducks an idiot when he says something idiotic. Don't blame me if it happens all the time.
It's okay that people don't agree with me.....I still believe it's premature to have called him the 2nd best SF ever..when his career isn't done.
We have a prisoner of the moment culture..especially when it comes to sports.
They are people who believe that Kobe is better than MJ. And they're wrong too!!
It's clearly premature, and I see what you're saying about media people overstating things, but LBJ is far better than "good, or even very good" as you called him. If his career ends today it's true that Jackson's statement goes out the window, but barring any injury, and given the development of his game from coming into the league out of high school, he can be as good as anyone that's ever laced them up, and it's not a stretch to say he's already nearing or even at the second best ever at his position, given the relative weakness of all-timers at that particular spot.
Then Dan Marino can't be named in any conversation about quarterbacks. Ever. Bernie Kosar can because he won a ring with the Cowboys.
Does that actually make sense?
An injury or Lebron suddenly forgetting how to play basketball is the only way he wont win championships.
Players of Lebron's caliber simply win championships. It's that simple.
In your paragraph...you wrote he can be and that's a huge difference to say he already is. And that isn't semantics!!!
I agree that SF position maybe the weakest....but we can wait a bit before we start giving someone the "best-ever status!" Also, I still have a hard time dismissing those players who played before him...even though we didn't get to see them play.
It is easy to look at our era and make that kind of declarative statement. But, I can't go there! I will say if he fulfills his potential...he will be one of the best-ever in the early 21st century period of pro basketball.
Even though, I wrote he's very good....that isn't a knock on him at all. I thought Kobe was very good for years...but now he's an excellent player and one of the best of this modern era.
And I think our culture is too quick to call someone a "genius or the best ever" before its deserved.
You're missing the point.
Dan Marino is one of the best quarterbacks of the modern era. But he isn't the best...because he didn't win championships.
There is a huge difference between being one of the best and being the best!!!
We don't know that...yet!
And until it happens...I'm not going to call him the "2nd best SF ever" or even the best SF ever.
That is a declarative statement and hype or speculation doesn't cut it if you are going to make that type of declaration.
And LeBron would have at least one if he had Moses Malone, not to mention Andrew Toney and Mo Cheeks on his team. He has never had a single teammate as good as any of those three. Dr. J had probably the best supporting cast any star has ever had in NBA history on that '83 team.
But he didn't...and again you are dealing in pure speculation.
The 76ers were knocking on the doors for years. As a matter of fact...they reach the NBA finals in 1980 only to lose to the Lakers and lost several playoff series to the Celtics in those days.
Plus, we are dealing with different players from different eras.
The statement made by Mark Jackson was declarative or even definitive...so if you are going to say that...you can't have hype or speculation backing up your statement.
Lastly, I like the way Lebron James plays.....but I'm not going there yet until I see a longer resume.
I said "he can be the best at any position that ever played the sport" and Jackson simply said that he's already the second best ever at his position. Don't confuse what I said with what Jackson said, as they are two completely different statements. If Jackson is guilty of overstating how good Lebron James is, you're equally guilty of understating it.
Nobody's saying he's the best ever. BTW do you get this wrapped up when someone says that Duncan is the best power forward of all time even though his career isn't over?
And I think our culture is too quick to call someone a "genius or the best ever" before its deserved.[/QUOTE]
I agree. VH1 got so much attention doing those "best ___ of all time" lists that now everyone does it or says something outrageous. That said, what Jackson said isn't all that outrageous.
It was pretty easy to see Magic, Bird, and Jordan were all-time greats after a couple of years in the league. By Duncan's second year it was pretty clear he was better than Malone or Barkley. Would that be any different if he got drafted by Boston and didn't have David Robinson controlling the lane on defense or feeding him easy layups from the high-post? Surely he wouldn't have won a le quickly on Boston.
Bird had a much better supporting cast than Lebron does though...
Cool. Troy Aikman >> Dan Marino. I've been waiting years to be able to say that.
I agree. VH1 got so much attention doing those "best ___ of all time" lists that now everyone does it or says something outrageous. That said, what Jackson said isn't all that outrageous.[/QUOTE]
BTW....yes I do because its a legitimate debate. I don't mind debating something like this.
I know Jackson said he was already the 2nd best ever SF. But there are some who have already posted he is the best ever...so I'm debating that as well.
It's nothing personal.....
Maybe the best single NBA team ever. Who thinks that team wouldn't have won with LBJ instead of Doc?
The championship argument is taken WAY too far more often than the "greatest ever" argument. I refuse to believe that Barry Sanders is somehow not in the argument for the best at his position simply because he was on horrible teams his whole career. What Lebron James did taking that ty Cavs team to the finals is hugely underrated.
IOW, Manu Ginobili > LeBron James
It's only a legitimate debate if you don't create strawman arguments to pummel during the debate.
Beno Udrih > Lebron James
Mengke Bateer > Lebron James
For example, I think Terrell Davis of the Broncos was one of the best running backs of his era..but not the best ever or even the 2nd best ever of his era.
He has 2 Superbowl Rings and I believe ran for 2,000 yards in one of his seasons.
There is a difference between being the best or 2nd best ever and one of the best.
I'm not creating strawman arguments.
I took the words from Mark Jackson's mouth and posted the thread!
And if Lebron James tears up a knee tomorrow Jackson's statement (which was intended to draw attention and spark debate) will be re-evaulated (or more likely forgotten as 90 percent of these are). As of now, it's not all that ridiculous.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote