Thoughts at the All-Star Break

[Ghost Writer]

nice read, GW.
so the 'tank the season' idea is officially debunked.

let's hope the rush at trade deadline would offer up something that the Spurs could nab.

I'll stand by it if the homers here feel the need for a pariah.

As I posted ad nauseum, the idea about tanking was an extreme suggestion to illustrate the fact that the Spurs success is due almost entirely on two ping pong balls.

In 20 years, the Spurs front office managed to complement #1 pick Robinson with #1 pick Duncan and then draft Parker and Ginobili.

That's the best they could do in 2 decades with two Hall of Fame-bound centers handed to them in the lottery?






I am not impressed.





Five years from now, maybe some of you will come to realize that while 4 les are nice, we could've had closer to ten in the last 20 years with even the slightest uptick in talent.







You can celebrate the ones we one, while I lament the ones that slipped through our fingers.





Ron Artest should be on this team.

[Shastafarian]

Captain Obvious?

So you agree with everything I am saying?

That's a first for anyone in this homer-centric Forum.

Who are you anyway besides the dude with the d1ck in his mouth?



Contribute something or go back to fellating a fruit.

That the best you can do? See at least if I was to call you a name I would be justified in calling you a bandwagon fan. "Tank the season". LOL

1. Matt Bonner has impressed me.

No ? Wow thanks for sharing what everyone else is thinking.

2. Bruce Bowen still blows.

Obvious coming from you. Unfortunately most people who know basketball disagree. Ask Vince Carter if Bruce "still blows".

3. Roger Mason is Stephen Jackson Lite.

Mason has hit big shots? Damn, I had no idea.

4. George Hill has a future in this League.

Never would have guessed it.

5. Mike Finley is two years past his expiration date.

What super secret detective skills did you use to figure this one out?

6. We need to savor Tim Duncan.

I prefer to take him for granted thanks.

7. The Spurs are still one impact player away.

Because no one has been saying this...

8. I am not sure what the Spurs have to offer.
The Spurs will not break up the Three Amigos and no one else on the team is worth trading for. The only hope is that a team would want some of our expiring contracts for the big 2010 free agent rush

BREAKING NEWS!!!

I think the Carter and S. Williams proposed trade would take care of both.

You have a problem with Sheed's "temper" but you want Williams. Hilarious.

9. Popovich is a great coach.

You better alert the HOF Committee. I don't think anyone really feels Pop is a great coach.

10. Tony Parker's assists per game is remarkable.

Remarkable? Exaggerate much? Tony is 14th among point guards in assists per game. I'm not sure I'd call that "remarkable".

All in all, I have to say that the Spurs have surprised me this year, given the team's overall age, lack of talent from top to bottom, injuries, and the level of compe ion in the West. Again, when the Three Amigos are all healthy and not fatigued, this team can beat anyone. I don't know if that will hold true in a long playoff series, though. The team needs a big boost. Now, more than ever, the front office needs to work some magic. I'm not asking for a Pau Gasol thievery or an ill-advised trade for a name like some of the other deadline deals we've seen. Just get one player that can shore up a weakness and make a real, positive impact. Duncan deserves it. And who knows when we as fans will ever have the stars align like this again, following a small market team from San Antonio.


The sense of urgency to squeak another le has never been more intense.

Leave that le window open just a crack.

No I think we should tank the season.

[Ghost Writer]

What did you expect from a thread en led "Thoughts at the All-Star Break"?

My comments might be obvious to you, but they weren't always apparent to me or other here.

In fact, many people argued that Bonner was always good or never would be good, that Finely still was viable, that Duncan was slowing down, that Parker was only a shooter, that Bowen should still be starting, that the Spurs have enough talent to win now, and that Popovich is overrated because of Duncan.

How hard was it to take everything I wrote out of context and parrot it back? There were caveats to those points that you isolated.

And you do understand the reason why I suggested tanking, right?




I am begging you to post something interesting.

In the meantime, at least you can continue blowing bananas, Chiquita.


I hear they are high in potassium.

[Shastafarian]

What did you expect from a thread en led "Thoughts at the All-Star Break"?

My comments might be obvious to you, but they weren't always apparent to me or other here.

In fact, many people argued that Bonner was always good or never would be good, that Finely still was viable, that Duncan was slowing down, that Parker was only a shooter, that Bowen should still be starting, that the Spurs have enough talent to win now, and that Popovich is overrated because of Duncan.

How hard was it to take everything I wrote out of context and parrot it back? There were caveats to those points that you isolated.

And you do understand the reason why I suggested tanking, right?

I'm waiting for you to post something that isn't obvious and/or "tank the season".

I am begging you to post something interesting.

In the meantime, at least you can continue blowing bananas, Chiquita.


I hear they are high in potassium.

I don't get it. You think that's me in the avatar or something? Or do you actually like Mark Cuban?

[Ghost Writer]

No I think we should tank the season.

If you agree that the team does not have the talent to win the le this year and the front office does not have the bargaining chips to make a trade for an impact player, then how do you suggest that the Spurs get back to championship caliber?





Question.

[Shastafarian]

If you agree that the team does not have the talent to win the le this year and the front office does not have the bargaining chips to make a trade for an impact player, then how do you suggest that the Spurs get back to championship caliber?





Question.

I never said the FO doesn't have pieces to make a trade. You yourself enlightened us to the fact that some GMs will want expiring contracts. Throw in a player like mason or hill and you can get someone who would put the Spurs in le contention. As the team is now, I think they would give the Lakers a run for their money. But since the Lakers will likely have home court, I can't see the Spurs winning the series. That slightest edge coupled with the possible return of Bynum would make it hard to see the Spurs taking 4 out of 7. HOWEVER, there is still plenty of time left for guys like Thomas and Bonner to improve. Oh, and Bowen is not finished and will only get more minutes in the playoffs.


Answer.

[Ghost Writer]

Okay, thank you for a content-driven response.

I do agree in part with what you are saying.

I think the Nets would be happy to unload Carter to really finalize their rebuilding process and cap clearing for 2010, because the Spurs have a lot of contract that are up at that time when LeBron and everyone will be free agents.

I don't think the Spurs can beat the Lakers in a best-of-7, because the majority of the team tires too easily and Bynum is reported to be back sooner than later.

I hate on Bowen as a starter getting 30 minutes. I love him as a rested defensive subs ution getting closer to 15-20 MPG, especially for the playoffs.

Thomas is 90. He's not improving. He is what he is and that is not bad. But he's not going to block shots or be athletic, which is what we need.

Bonner is Danny Ferry without the brains. I appreciate how he's hitting the open 3s now, but I have little confidence in him in a big spot in the playoffs. He needs to focus more and gain more experience in pressure situations.




The bottom line for me is if I can't see the Spurs winning it as constructed and the front office can't get Carter, then I hate to see them relegated to "also-ran" status in Duncan's twilight years.



That's the essence of the "tank" suggestion, which as crazy as I am, know would never happen. although the Spurs success is directly tied to the lottery.


I am desperate for the front office to capitalize on that great fortune more so than they have.


That's all.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Why don't you read what I write and stop trying to tell me what I meant?

I even bolded my reason for suggesting the Spurs should tank the entire NBA season.

If you think that the Spurs or any team would or could lose games for an entire season on purpose, you are terribly naive.

My suggestion to tank was hyperbole, but my offer still stands to edit what I wrote to say "I was totally serious about tanking" if it makes you feel better.

The bottom line is that you can laugh at the suggestion all you want, but the simple fact is that the Spurs front office can't attract star talent to the team. We got lucky by winning two draft lotteries and even a blind squirrel can find a couple nuts (Manu and Parker).

So read between the lines, use your fvcking brain and respect people that have forgotten more about this sport and contributed to this board more than you ever will.








Happy Valentine's Day.

Wow, what an elite elite poster deserving of elite elite respect. I was actually one of the only people who was on your side when you made that post. But I guess that was one of the many many things you forgot, right?

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious fact that the word "half-seriously" just flat out made you look like a backtracking . Try to remember that one, breh.

But continue contributing to the board, in such a y manner, oh Master of the Cutting Edge Take, you.

[phxspurfan]

Okay, thank you for a content-driven response.

I do agree in part with what you are saying.

I think the Nets would be happy to unload Carter to really finalize their rebuilding process and cap clearing for 2010, because the Spurs have a lot of contract that are up at that time when LeBron and everyone will be free agents.

I don't think the Spurs can beat the Lakers in a best-of-7, because the majority of the team tires too easily and Bynum is reported to be back sooner than later.

I hate on Bowen as a starter getting 30 minutes. I love him as a rested defensive subs ution getting closer to 15-20 MPG, especially for the playoffs.

Thomas is 90. He's not improving. He is what he is and that is not bad. But he's not going to block shots or be athletic, which is what we need.

Bonner is Danny Ferry without the brains. I appreciate how he's hitting the open 3s now, but I have little confidence in him in a big spot in the playoffs. He needs to focus more and gain more experience in pressure situations.




The bottom line for me is if I can't see the Spurs winning it as constructed and the front office can't get Carter, then I hate to see them relegated to "also-ran" status in Duncan's twilight years.



That's the essence of the "tank" suggestion, which as crazy as I am, know would never happen. although the Spurs success is directly tied to the lottery.


I am desperate for the front office to capitalize on that great fortune more so than they have.


That's all.

Who would we draft, even if this massive gamble paid off? There's no TD or DRob in this draft. You also fail to realize how bad ticket sales would drop if the team suddenly decided to quit playing compe ive ball in th emiddle of great depression #2. Your suggestion would destroy the legacy of the classy Spurs that win consistently (~70% of games played) every year.

[Baseline]

Great post, GW.

The only thing I disagree with is the Bowen thing. I think he brings us much more value on the court than Finley does. In my opinion if we traded Fnley for anything, we'd be a better team. Finley brings us nothing on defense, and he misses far too many jumpers, all of which kickstart the opponents' fast breaks. He gets hot about once a month, which is great for that game, but otherwise he puts up far too many 1-6, 2-7 games.

What I like about Bowen is that when he gets run off the three point line, he brings the ball closer to the hoop looking to pass or shoot a floater (which we could possibly offensive rebound). Granted, he's not great putting it on the floor, but I think we get better shots overall with Bowen on the floor than we do with Finley.

Understand that in my opinion, a Finley jumper that is not wide open is not a quality shot. At this stage of his career, Finley is only decent at hitting jumpers against folding chairs, not real defenders. For what the Spurs do, I never thought Finley was a fit for us. I just love what Bowen does on the defensive end for us, even though I agree that he has lost a half step. Don't forget that Bowen is still shooting 43% from three point range this year, which is actually still very, very good.

[Ghost Writer]

Wow, what an elite elite poster deserving of elite elite respect. I was actually one of the only people who was on your side when you made that post. But I guess that was one of the many many things you forgot, right?

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious fact that the word "half-seriously" just flat out made you look like a backtracking . Try to remember that one, breh.

But continue contributing to the board, in such a y manner, oh Master of the Cutting Edge Take, you.

Dude, I edited my post and explained myself at least three times.

No team could/would tank on purpose, but my point remains.





Why don't you build on it or tear it down instead of focusing on whether I really meant the Spurs should tank the season?

[Ghost Writer]

Who would we draft, even if this massive gamble paid off? There's no TD or DRob in this draft. You also fail to realize how bad ticket sales would drop if the team suddenly decided to quit playing compe ive ball in th emiddle of great depression #2. Your suggestion would destroy the legacy of the classy Spurs that win consistently (~70% of games played) every year.

Hence, "half serious."

The suggestion to tank was to underscore my lack of faith in the Spurs front office to acquire talent and the massive amount of luck that the Spurs have had in the lottery.


How many times do I have to repeat myself?

[Ghost Writer]

Great post, GW.

The only thing I disagree with is the Bowen thing. I think he brings us much more value on the court than Finley does. In my opinion if we traded Fnley for anything, we'd be a better team. Finley brings us nothing on defense, and he misses far too many jumpers, all of which kickstart the opponents' fast breaks. He gets hot about once a month, which is great for that game, but otherwise he puts up far too many 1-6, 2-7 games.

What I like about Bowen is that when he gets run off the three point line, he brings the ball closer to the hoop looking to pass or shoot a floater (which we could possibly offensive rebound). Granted, he's not great putting it on the floor, but I think we get better shots overall with Bowen on the floor than we do with Finley.

Understand that in my opinion, a Finley jumper that is not wide open is not a quality shot. At this stage of his career, Finley is only decent at hitting jumpers against folding chairs, not real defenders. For what the Spurs do, I never thought Finley was a fit for us. I just love what Bowen does on the defensive end for us, even though I agree that he has lost a half step. Don't forget that Bowen is still shooting 43% from three point range this year, which is actually still very, very good.

Well, I think that Pop opts to have Finley in their with the starting 5, because he looks for more offense. I think that you can get away with Bowen when Manu (much more offense than Finley) is on the floor with him and Finley is on the bench. I expect to see that more in the playoffs. You can't put Bowen in there with Bonner, Duncan, Mason and Parker, because you lose too much offense.

Pop has to insert Finley in somewhere, y'know?

[BlackBellamy]

Agreed with you for the most part. Roger is not at his skill level maximum, though. Take a look at his stats during the TP/ Manu injury portion of this season. More minutes for Mase = even better production from Mase (kinda obvious I s'pose)

[Ghost Writer]

Agreed with you for the most part. Roger is not at his skill level maximum, though. Take a look at his stats during the TP/ Manu injury portion of this season. More minutes for Mase = even better production from Mase (kinda obvious I s'pose)

Agreed, but what I mean is that Mason is playing at his ceiling for his role on this Spurs team with everyone healthy.

[MarHill]

Yeah, I'm the guy that TOTALLY-seriously suggested that the Spurs tank the whole season when Parker and Ginobili were out, because I don't think the team as cons uted can win a le this year and have very little confidence in the front office to bring in an impact player.

Here's some updated thoughts at the Break (nothing Earth shattering, but honest feedback):

1. Matt Bonner has impressed me.
I regret dropping him from my Fantasy team. And he's been a lot more consistent in the past two months on the Spurs. I see less bone-headed plays and defensive lapses. His 3s have been spot on. Having said that, I just can't see him having the ice in his veins to hit that open 3 when counted on in the playoffs. It may be unfair, but I am having flashback to Danny Ferry and Hedo Turkoglu clanging iron for the Spurs when it mattered most.

2. Bruce Bowen still blows.
You can pretend that Pop is saving him for the playoffs, but the simple fact is that he's lost a step and his offensive game has gone from minimal to obsolete. Thank Pop for finally realizing that Bowen is a defensive specialist that should be used in key situations and/or when an opposing perimeter player needs cooling down.

3. Roger Mason is Stephen Jackson Lite.
I like Mason a lot. I feel like he is playing close to his ceiling, but that might just be all the Spurs need from him at his position. I admire his fearlessness and ability to hit the big shot. Even when he takes those bold 3s out of the rythym of the offense, I like how it keeps the other team off guard, pun intended.

4. George Hill has a future in this League.
Hill's potential may not be suprememly obvious, but he seems to listen well, play hard and keeps improving on defense. His large wingspan and physical attributes can make him a good commodity. Kudos to the front office for mining for this talent. The kid can score when called upon, too.

5. Mike Finley is two years past his expiration date.
Finley is a professional and can get hot in small bursts, but by and large, it's over. Not only should he not be starting, he probably does not see more than 15 MPG on most teams.

6. We need to savor Tim Duncan.
In my opinion, this is Duncan's finest season asa pro, for the stability he has given this team through injuries and a mini-rebuilding on the fly. He is the lone anchor down low on defense. His numbers are terrific and his leadership has never been better.

7. The Spurs are still one impact player away.
The key injuries to the Rockets, Jazz, Lakers and Hornets all help, but all things being equal, the Spurs are still one impact player away from a le run this year. Popovich even admitted it during the Celtics game last Sunday. In order to have a shot, the Spurs would have to be 100% healthy and catch some major breaks in the playoffs like in the last le win the season before last. I don't see it, because even if the other contenders are hampered by injuries, the Spurs age might show again in those best-of-sevens. The team is old and gets gassed. I like Mason starting, which gives them fresher legs, but this team needs a boost.

8. I am not sure what the Spurs have to offer.
The Spurs will not break up the Three Amigos and no one else on the team is worth trading for. The only hope is that a team would want some of our expiring contracts for the big 2010 free agent rush:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm

I have zero interest in playing the 2010 sweepstakes, so I have no problem gambling on a veteran star like Vince Carter. I can even be persuaded to bring in a Rasheed Wallace, even though I don't trust him in big spots, because of his temper and propensity to jack up ill-advised 3s.

Note: Carter and Rasheed would both play hard for the Spurs, as those nagging injuries and disinterest seem to disappear when players are traded to contenders.

We still need a slashing swingman and shot-blocking big man.
I'm not saying that we need to replace Sean Elliott and David Robinson in their prime, but we can't seem to replace either of them since they retired!

I think the Carter and S. Williams proposed trade would take care of both.

Even the most conservative Spurs fan now must realize that with Duncan and Ginobili not getting any younger, now is the time to take a few calculated risks to win now

9. Popovich is a great coach.
I like his humor. He's good at calling timeouts and drawing up gamewinning plays. He lets the team figure out how to overcome challenges. His candor is amazing, as he admits the team is not there defensively and needs to make a deal, which is encouraging. At the very least, it's motivational to the current squad. I do not like how he says he will retire when Duncan does. I would like to see him win without Duncan to silence his detractors. But he's come a long way over the years and is earning his salary this season.

10. Tony Parker's assists per game is remarkable.
My biggest criticism of Parker was always his limited playmaking ability, because I like my PGs to make his teammates better. Well, this year with Parker dishing out around 7 dimes a game, I can't complain. One nitpick -- I know Parker's FG% has been outstanding since giving up the 3-point shot, but I wish he'd work on it more. If he could incorporate a trust trey ball, he'd be a killer like Chris Paul and Deron Williams.



All in all, I have to say that the Spurs have surprised me this year, given the team's overall age, lack of talent from top to bottom, injuries, and the level of compe ion in the West. Again, when the Three Amigos are all healthy and not fatigued, this team can beat anyone. I don't know if that will hold true in a long playoff series, though. The team needs a big boost. Now, more than ever, the front office needs to work some magic. I'm not asking for a Pau Gasol thievery or an ill-advised trade for a name like some of the other deadline deals we've seen. Just get one player that can shore up a weakness and make a real, positive impact. Duncan deserves it. And who knows when we as fans will ever have the stars align like this again, following a small market team from San Antonio.


The sense of urgency to squeak another le has never been more intense.

Leave that le window open just a crack.

I like the overall analysis of your thread. But, I disagree with you somewhat.

I do believe Pop has been saving Bowen to use him more later in the season and the playoffs. And to judge that move right now is premature. We will see as the season goes along.

I'm actually more encouraged now that this team has a shot to win a le this year. The fact that TD is playing great, Manu is getting healthier, TP is playing consistently, and with additions of Mason & Hill and the emergence of Bonner has given this team a little more offensive firepower.

Yes, the defense isn't great as years passed but they still can get stops at the end of a game and they will be key in the playoffs.

The biggest issue (especially last season) was going on long offensive droughts and letting those games get away from us. You still have to put the ball in the basket no matter how good someone's defense is. I have seen very few of those games this year and the fact you can spread the floor with shooters around TD will be a matchup problem for other teams in the playoffs.

I know everyone wants a big man....the problem is the Spurs are not in a good position to get anyone with a big contract. (Sheed or Brad Miller) So I believe this is the team they are going with and I think they can get it done!!

[nadroj117]

I think you make a number of great points and couldn't agree more with the majority of them. But you keep saying that even a blind squirel finds a nut and what not... then you mention Manu and Tony... and yes we got lucky to a point, Manu developed over seas and learned to play defense, and Tony had the work ethic and mental toughness to learn that Pop was trying to make him the best player possible (thank god we didn't draft tinsley that year). Does anyone think that Tony would be this great had Pop not been his coach? or of Chip wasn't brought in to reconstruct his shooting stroke? All this is besides the point... my question is what other squirel (teams) has found 2 nuts in not only 5 years, but 10+ years? I don't see many other teams that can say even this much, and you claim that isn't enough in 10 years... Only team I can think of is maybe Utah, who coincidentally has probably the only other coach with full reigns of developing his players and getting "HIS" players. I understand your fighting for the fact the front office hasn't done enough, and don't get me wrong I'd love to get a blockbuster/ all-star trade. But how can you question a front office, who has done something no other small market team in probably all of sports has been able to do? Just food for thought....


One more thing, I don't want to risk the youth of this team for a player on the downside of his career... Mason and Hill can be key members for years to come

[afireinside20]

In a way I would love Rasheed coming to the Spurs. Sure he acts like a jackass sometimes and gets T-d up, but he would give the Spurs some toughness. So we won't have players trying to come in and dunk on our bigs and be arrogant. Then again if we got Vince, that would be great too. True he might not be the same Vince as before, but he would be a great addition to the team. In my opinion, he's the missing piece the Spurs need to beat the Fakers.

[spurster]

At this point, Bowen >> Finley. It could be that Pop doesn't want to wear Bowen out during the regular season, or that Pop is seriously considering platooning Finley for 1st halves and Bowen for 2nd halves.

As for le hopes, the big question is whether the Spurs can get past the Lakers. The Spurs will have to play much better defense than we have seen so far. Mason and Hill are on a steep learning curve and Bonner is still inching up the slope in Spurs defense. I think hope is reasonable, but not much confidence yet.

[Ghost Writer]

I think you make a number of great points and couldn't agree more with the majority of them. But you keep saying that even a blind squirel finds a nut and what not... then you mention Manu and Tony... and yes we got lucky to a point, Manu developed over seas and learned to play defense, and Tony had the work ethic and mental toughness to learn that Pop was trying to make him the best player possible (thank god we didn't draft tinsley that year). Does anyone think that Tony would be this great had Pop not been his coach? or of Chip wasn't brought in to reconstruct his shooting stroke? All this is besides the point... my question is what other squirel (teams) has found 2 nuts in not only 5 years, but 10+ years? I don't see many other teams that can say even this much, and you claim that isn't enough in 10 years... Only team I can think of is maybe Utah, who coincidentally has probably the only other coach with full reigns of developing his players and getting "HIS" players. I understand your fighting for the fact the front office hasn't done enough, and don't get me wrong I'd love to get a blockbuster/ all-star trade. But how can you question a front office, who has done something no other small market team in probably all of sports has been able to do? Just food for thought....


One more thing, I don't want to risk the youth of this team for a player on the downside of his career... Mason and Hill can be key members for years to come

That's fair. But I point out that only Manu and Parker have amounted to anything (too early to tell with G. Hill) for the Spurs last 10 drafts since Duncan. Barbosa, Udrih and Scola are contributing for other teams and what was our net gain for that?

I just think that anytime you can add a player who is a clutch 20 PPG player for your role players, you do it.

[Ghost Writer]

At this point, Bowen >> Finley. It could be that Pop doesn't want to wear Bowen out during the regular season, or that Pop is seriously considering platooning Finley for 1st halves and Bowen for 2nd halves.

As for le hopes, the big question is whether the Spurs can get past the Lakers. The Spurs will have to play much better defense than we have seen so far. Mason and Hill are on a steep learning curve and Bonner is still inching up the slope in Spurs defense. I think hope is reasonable, but not much confidence yet.

Everyone knows that I hate one dimensional players, but I recognize that Bowen is better than Finley. But it doesn't make sense to bench Finley. We'll need Bowen to be fresh for the playoffs more than Finley.

Finley is regular season filler.

[Marcus Bryant]

Finally. The day has come when Ghost Writer is correct.

Win Now, Worry Later.™