Fastest Dow drop in at least 90 years

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110184

Evidence of all those who thought there was an Obama bounce coming.

I see why you say "everybody", Darrin.

[ChumpDumper]

Since everyone was so orgasmic over the Obama presidency, I just thought there would be some kind of rally after the inaugural.

Well, you're pretty stupid for thinking that. You should never invest any money if you are that stupid.

[MannyIsGod]

So one guy we've never even heard of? Would you like me to link you what actual respected economists were saying?

[DarrinS]

I agree with pretty much all that. No doubt things were going to suck no matter what and obviously the investors are going to be more worried than everyone else. But a lot of that worry comes from Obama spending massive amounts of money and telling everyone that rich people (a.k.a. investors) are going to pay for it all. Investors are also concerned over the government taking ownership stakes in companies. Investors don't want to be business partners with the government, nor do they want to invest in companies who would effectively be business compe ors of the government, so staying out entirely is the safest option they have.

Not only that, but all of us who have 401k's in mutual funds are also affected. I don't know about you, but I don't like losing 20% of my principle every 3 months.

[MannyIsGod]

And as you rag on Obama, I'd like to remind you that John McCain probably still thinks the fundementals of this economy are strong.

[florige]

So when the economy recovers in 2011, you'll make sure to pin the greatest gain on Obama as well, correct?

No the GOP'ers at that point will swear up in down it had something to do with some of their policies that happened to be in the bill.

[DarrinS]

http://www.smartmoney.com/investing/...briefly-23185/


http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...bama_wins.html


http://www.usatoday.com/money/market...-economy_N.htm

[ChumpDumper]

Not only that, but all of us who have 401k's in mutual funds are also affected. I don't know about you, but I don't like losing 20% of my principle every 3 months.

1)Are you retiring this year?

2) and this is the big one: were you ever guaranteed a return on your 401k investment?

This is where investors ed up the worst -- they started acting the investments they were making carried no risk.

[DarrinS]

And as you rag on Obama, I'd like to remind you that John McCain probably still thinks the fundementals of this economy are strong.

I didn't vote for John McCain.


I voted for "that one".

[DarrinS]

1)Are you retiring this year?

2) and this is the big one: were you ever guaranteed a return on your 401k investment?

I'd settle for 0% over -20%.

[balli]

I didn't vote for John McCain.


I voted for "that one".

And I seem to remember you emphatically stating on multiple occasions that you wish you hadn't.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd settle for 0% over -20%.

You didn't answer either question.

[RandomGuy]

Investors appear to be less idealistic than you.

Investors always know whats best. Thats why so many of them didn't just lose a load of money over the past year.

Please provide the data that supports the assertion that recent stock market declines are primarily due to Obama policy proposals.

The assertion that investors appear to like unicorns is just as supported by available data.

Perhaps you know of some direct causal link that I don't...?

I think conservatives are giving into their collective confirmation bias on this one.

That's ok, I guess, but if you want it that way, then you MUST give credit to Obama when the markets start going up again.

I won't hold my breath on that one.

"Hey I think I can sell some credit default swaps, and make a ton of money, who wants in on the action?"

"Buying stocks on margin is a great idea, where can I borrow some money in order to jump into the market?"

"Hey I think I can sell some credit default swaps, and make a ton of money, who wants in on the action?"

"That Bernie Madoff guy is a genius, here is a few million."

Here's the kicker:

The market does know more than we do, because it is the collective sum of what WE know. That is the defintion of efficient markets. (basic finance/economics theory)

The problem conservatives have in making the case that the markets are ONLY dropping because of what Obama is doing is that there is waaaay more going on at any one time than what the government is doing.

The US governement, compared to the world economy total is rather small, for all of its current spending.

That would imply that whatever Obama does is, by the very definition of efficient markets, far outweighed by whatever else is going on, unless he takes governerment action to extremes far beyond the relatively modest (yes, that's right, I said modest) actions he has proposed.

Anyone who DOES say that the market's reactions are completely due to Obama's actions are simply demonstrating that they don't understand one of the more basic principles of finance.

Further:

Part of the definition of GDP is that it includes government spending (it is the term "G" in the equation that economists use to calculate GDP)

If we double our government's spending, and the total economy STILL shrinks at a 7% annual rate, what does that suggest about what is happening in the rest of the economy?

ing ouch is right.

[MannyIsGod]

Darrin, before I go off on you - did you read those articles? If not go back and read them.

[balli]

Holy . Cobra'esque.

[DarrinS]

1)Are you retiring this year?

No

2) and this is the big one: were you ever guaranteed a return on your 401k investment?

Of course not.

[ChumpDumper]

No




Of course not.

Well alright then.

[RandomGuy]

Darrin, in the end, EVERYONE knew that was going to get worse before it got better.

I knew it was going to get worse than what a lot of economists were expecting, and I will tell you that the markets are reacting somewhat to Obama's actions, but his attempts to change the course of the supertanker that is the US economy simply haven't fully had enough time to really do anything yet.

It takes something like 10 nautical miles to turn a super tanker around, if memory serves.

The biggest problem with our financial system is that the extent of losses are yet unknown.

Nothing Obama is doing or could potentially do will really change the underlying nature of most of those losses, and those losses, coupled with unemployment will far outweigh most of the actions of the US gov't in terms of moving the markets in either direction.

[DarrinS]

Darrin, before I go off on you - did you read those articles? If not go back and read them.

Ok, I read them. Are you going to "go off" on me now? LOL.

[MannyIsGod]

That depends, do you still believe they actually make a case for your stupid argument?

Oh, and its really funny you post articles to make an argument without reading them first. Nice.

[DarrinS]

Darrin, in the end, EVERYONE knew that was going to get worse before it got better.

I knew it was going to get worse than what a lot of economists were expecting, and I will tell you that the markets are reacting somewhat to Obama's actions, but his attempts to change the course of the supertanker that is the US economy simply haven't fully had enough time to really do anything yet.

It takes something like 10 nautical miles to turn a super tanker around, if memory serves.

The biggest problem with our financial system is that the extent of losses are yet unknown.

Nothing Obama is doing or could potentially do will really change the underlying nature of most of those losses, and those losses, coupled with unemployment will far outweigh most of the actions of the US gov't in terms of moving the markets in either direction.

Ok. That's all pretty reasonable.

Given this amount of uncertainty in the economy, does Obama's massive spending make sense to you?

It's like buying a giant house right now when you now the housing market is shaky at best.

[DarrinS]

That depends, do you still believe they actually make a case for your stupid argument?

Oh, and its really funny you post articles to make an argument without reading them first. Nice.

I didn't see anything in those articles that didn't comport with my OP.

[balli]

Given this amount of uncertainty in the economy, does Obama's massive spending make sense to you?

Jesus. At least make a deficit argument.

[ChumpDumper]

Ok. That's all pretty reasonable.

Given this amount of uncertainty in the economy, does Obama's massive spending make sense to you?

It's like buying a giant house right now when you now the housing market is shaky at best.

It's more like having someone else buy a giant house while you are afraid or unable to buy. The effect is a house is sold.

[AntiChrist]

Jesus.

You rang?