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  1. #26
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Peak oil anyone?

    With world oil prices north of $50 a barrel and rising, OPEC ministers meeting in Iran Wednesday will be grappling with a problem they haven’t confronted in the cartel’s 45-year history. In the past, OPEC tried to cool overheated prices by pumping more when supplies got too tight. But most OPEC producers say they’re already pumping as fast as they can. And despite the high cost of a barrel of crude, world demand shows no signs of slowing.

    As a result, some OPEC ministers say, they’ve run out of options in trying to rein in the price of crude. Global oil demand has taken up most of the slack in extra OPEC capacity. Consumption is now believed by many analysts to be pressing up against the limits of what the world can produce. Saudi Arabia is the only country believed to have any surplus production left, and even then the Saudis are pumping close to 90 percent of capacity, according to the U.S. Department of Energy.

    "There is not much we can do,” Algerian Oil Minister Chakib Khelil told reporters Tuesday in Isfahan, Iran, the site of Wednesday’s meeting.

    "OPEC has done all it can do.” Qatar Oil Minister Abdullah al-Attiyah said. “This is out of the control of OPEC."
    more...MSNBC

    Given the rise of the Euro compared to the Dollar, most of the price increase we in the US have seen has NOT been seen in Europe. Gasoline Prices has risen in Europe (Almost all in the Second half of 2004) but no where near what it has in the US. Japan and China has kept their currencies tied closely to the US Dollar for trade purposes and apparently turned a lot of their Dollars into Oil (Both in a Strategic Reserve like the US has, but also in buying oil fields). Thus the price of oil for both Countries (and the rest of the Far East) has gone up in 2004, they have excess Dollars to deal with the increase (Through I see both countries dropping the Dollar if the Dollar takes a sudden dive OR the price of Oil goes through the roof i.e. Exceeds $100 to the Barrel). Remember there are 42 Gallons to a Barrel of Oil so the production costs of a gallon of gasoline at $100 a Barrel of oil is $2.38 a gallon plus State tax (27cents for Pa), the Federal Gasoline Tax (18.4) and the Cost of refining and distribution (24 cents a gallon, total non-barrel add on to a gallon of gasoline is $.694 per gallon. Thus the total price of Gasoline per barrel is $3.074 Dollars per Gallon at the pump).

    My point here is if the Price of Gasoline goes up much higher people will stop buying it, bring about a situation like what happened in 1997 (i.e. a HUGE drop in demand which than leads to a huge glut of oil and a huge drop in price). OPEC fears such a situation for with the drop in price will come drop in profits and all of the Rulers of the major OPEC countries need almost all of their money from their oil to stay in power (Venezuela's Chavez is probably the only popular elected ruler' of any OPEC nation). OPEC can NOT afford such a drop and such a drop will occur if the price gets to high, thus OPEC's attempts to lower the price to something that will NOT encourage people NOT to buy oil.

    A secondary reason is that most OPEC nations have extensive investment's in Europe and the United States and a too high a price of Oil, will force the US and Europe into a recession and these investments may go bad, thus many of the leaders of OPEC would suffer if the price of oil gets to high.

    All told, OPEC wants the price high but no so high to discourage real use and at $2-3 a gallon you are almost at that point.

  2. #27
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    For those of you who may have missed it, just this week the U.S. congress recognized that Peak Oil isn't just a conspiracy theory anymore...

    < Conservative Congressman Roscoe Bartlett, Chairman of the Projection Forces Subcommittee of the Armed Services Committee, gave an hour long presentation on Peak Oil to the US Congress on Monday. This is the full transcript. We hope to get a hold of the graphs used by Mr. Bartlett and will update this article to include them if they come to hand. -AF

    A couple of Congresses ago, I was privileged to chair the Energy Subcommittee on Science. One of the first things I wanted to do was to determine the dimensions of the problem. We held a couple of hearings and had the world experts in. Surprisingly from the most pessimistic to the most optimistic, there was not much deviation in what the estimate is as to what the known reserves are out there. It is about 1,000 gigabarrels. That sounds like an awful lot of oil. But when you divide into that the amount of oil which we use, about 20 million barrels a day, and the amount of oil the rest of the world uses, about 60 million barrels a day, as a matter of fact, the total now is a bit over the 80 million that those two add up to. About 83 1/2 , I think. If you divide that into the 1,000 gigabarrels, you come out at about 40 years of oil remaining in the world. That is pretty good. Because up until the Carter years, during the Carter years, in every decade we used as much oil as had been used in all of previous history. Let me repeat that, because that is startling. In every decade, we used as much oil as had been used in all of previous history. The reason for that, of course, was that we were on the upward side of this bell curve. The bell curve for usage, only part of it is shown on this chart. That is the green one down here, the bell curve for usage. Notice that we are out here now about 2005. Where is it going? The Energy Information Agency says that we are going to keep on using more oil. This green line just going up and up and up is a projection of the Energy Information Agency. But that cannot be true. That cannot be true for a couple of reasons. We peaked in our discovery of oil way back here in the late sixties, about 1970. In our country it peaked much earlier than that, by the way. But the world is following several years behind us. And the area under this red curve must be the same as the area under the green curve. You cannot pump any more oil than you have found, quite obviously. If you have not found it, you cannot pump it. If you were to extend this on out where they have extended their green line, even if it turned down right there at the end of that green line, the area under the green curve is going to be very much larger than the area under the red curve. That just cannot be. We will see in some subsequent charts that we probably have reached peak oil.

    <snip>

    Chart 9. This is a very interesting chart. It is a little too busy, but let me try to explain what is there. The oil companies for reasons of pricing and regulations and so forth have had the habit through the years of underreporting initially how much oil they found. Then later when it was appropriate to their license to produce more oil, they would report additional oil. They never found any additional oil. By the way you may have noted that three times in the last roughly 3 weeks, oil companies have admitted that their estimates of the reserves were exaggerated and have downscaled the reserves that they said were there. If you took the original reporting of the reserves, you might be able to construct a curve, a straight line curve which said we are just getting more and more. But if you backdated that to the actual discoveries, then you get this curve. This curve is asymtoting at a bit over 2,000 gigabarrels, which is about what the world's experts say had been there. We have now pumped about half of that. We have about 1,000 gigabarrels remaining.
    they simply reported oil they had found previously.

    <snip>

    What now? Where do we go now? One observer, Matt Savinar, who has thoroughly researched the options, and this is not the most optimistic assessment, by the way, but may be somewhat realistic, he starts out by saying, Dear Readers, civilization as we know it is coming to an end soon. I hope not. This is not the wacky proclamation of a doomsday cult, apocalypse Bible sect or conspiracy theory society. Rather, it is a scientific conclusion of the best-paid, most widely respected geologists, physicists and investment bankers in the world. These are rational, professional, conservative individuals who are absolutely terrified by the phenomenon known as global peak oil.

    <snip>

    Why should they be terrified? Why should they be terrified just because we have reached the peak of oil production? Last year, China used about 30 percent more oil. India now is demanding more oil. As a matter of fact, China now is the second largest importer of oil in the world. They have passed Japan. When you look at how important oil is to our economy, you can understand the big concern if, in fact, we cannot produce oil any faster than we are producing it now and there are increasing demands, as there will be, for oil. In our country, for instance, we have a debt that we must service. It will be essentially impossible to service that debt if our economy does not continue to grow. So there are enormous potential consequences, which is why he says that these people are absolutely terrified by the phenomenon known as peak oil.
    Energy Bulletin

  3. #28
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    stay out of the thread if you don't like it ...


    I'm the ? You're the one that sees OPEC as some sort of boogeyman, when in reality, the oil companies are the ones who control the refining process. Your lack of comprehension of petro-politics is staggering, and anyone attempting to discuss this with you here is wasting their time. You've been OWN3D.

    You can have your thread back now, biznatch.

  4. #29
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    I'm the ? You're the one that sees OPEC as some sort of boogeyman, when in reality, the oil companies are the ones who control the refining process. Your lack of comprehension of petro-politics is staggering, and anyone attempting to discuss this with you here is wasting their time. You've been OWN3D.

    You can have your thread back now, biznatch.
    biznatch? lol... how old are you? 15?

  5. #30
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Irony.

  6. #31
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    yes, it is ironic you would rather give rapists and murderers compassion, but would not give it to unborn babies/fetuses/whatever term makes you feel better

  7. #32
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Who says I don't give Fetuses compassion?

  8. #33
    JEBO TE! Clandestino's Avatar
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    thinking it is okay to kill them, but not murderers/rapists doesn't seem compassionate to me... maybe we have a different definition of compassion

  9. #34
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I don't think it's ok to kill them, but I don't think you can make it illegal because they aren't seperate human beings yet.

    Can you understand where a personal belief may not coincide with a legal one?

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