NBA green week t-shirts.

[DPG21920]

"Snide little elitist" says DPG21920 in judgement over all others. Such irony.

Sorry, where is the elitism in being concerned about the future of the planet?

I didn't start the thread, but according to you I should just ignore anything said in it and have no right to respond to it?



You don't know what you're talking about on this topic, as you have illustrated many a time, and it's not just about global warming. It's also about resource depletion, water and soil toxicity from landfill, and a bunch of other environmental issues. In fact, the central issue here is the NBA claiming to be something it's not.

Elitism is not in you caring, but in you looking down your nose, telling someone who does not believe in what you do that "they make you sick".

Me calling you an snide little elitist, is something to help you recognize how ridiculous you are being. This is not just one time or I would have let it go. I can go through many of your post and quote them in here to show you how all the time I catch you talking down to people.

, even if I just went through the game day threads and I could quote you always talking down to others.

[DPG21920]

"Snide little elitist" says DPG21920 in judgement over all others. Such irony.

Sorry, where is the elitism in being concerned about the future of the planet?

I didn't start the thread, but according to you I should just ignore anything said in it and have no right to respond to it?



You don't know what you're talking about on this topic, as you have illustrated many a time, and it's not just about global warming. It's also about resource depletion, water and soil toxicity from landfill, and a bunch of other environmental issues. In fact, the central issue here is the NBA claiming to be something it's not.

You just do not get it. I explain it to you, but still, no comprehension. I no where said you should ignore it. I no where said that your opinion is wrong on the subject. I said there is a way of treating people with respect. You always act like a jerk, talk down to others and it is because you think you are right and that you are smarter than everyone.

You can get your message across in a palatable way without being a jerk. You do it all the time and it bothers me. It bothers others and this is not the first time someone has taken you to task over how you talk to others.

You talk about people invading your rights, well you are doing the same thing. I have the right to do with my resources as I please, as long as there are no enforceable property rights on such things as "air", "environment" and other things, then you cannot call it an infringement on YOUR rights.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

LMAO, "little" had nothing to do with your physical size. Ironic that someone arguing about global warming tells someone else to "get their facts straight".

Once again you live in your own, little self-absorbed bubble. You cannot see why I am taking you to task about it. Let me explain it so you understand it. I feel the same away about how people treat each other, message board or not, that you do about global warming. So it bothers me. Why should you be able to take "someone to task" about something that bothers you, when I feel how people treat each other is a much more pressing issue than the environment?

Once again, I haven't mentioned global warming in this thread - I commented on the guy's at ude to the environment, and on NBA Greenwash. You ought to read my comments again.

And yes, I understood your concern for the way people treat each other... and you still hang around SpursTalk? How precious are you? This place is rough and tumble all the time, people have a go at each other here ALL THE TIME. I very rarely have a go at anyone, but when I see a comment with that magnitude of stupidity, sometimes I can't let it go. You think that guy is mortally wounded by my comment? C'mon, get real, he couldn't give a . he's so concerned that he hasn't even shown up to defend himself, or to have a shot back!

It's supremely ironic that you are having a go at me over this when there are hundreds of trolls and posters who come here ONLY to abuse people. I label one comment sickening and I get both barrels from you... ha!

And BTW, the way people treat each other, and the way they treat the environment, are intimately linked. You think that guy is going to be filled with respect for his fellow man? He just gave the finger to an entire section of society, so no, I doubt he's too concerned about how he treats people.

Dude, this is SPURSTALK. If I didn't know you, walked up to you, and got in your face about something I overheard you saying, fine, I'd be guilty of your charges, but this is a message board full of harsh commentary and conflict. Wake up out of your idealist dream for a moment.

[timmo]

More OT than most.
The Spurs are at least trying to do SOMETHING...
http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/wind_080618.html

Now the crap about taking commercial flights is absurd.

[DPG21920]

Once again, I haven't mentioned global warming in this thread - I commented on the guy's at ude to the environment, and on NBA Greenwash. You ought to read my comments again.

And yes, I understood your concern for the way people treat each other... and you still hang around SpursTalk? How precious are you? This place is rough and tumble all the time, people have a go at each other here ALL THE TIME. I very rarely have a go at anyone, but when I see a comment with that magnitude of stupidity, sometimes I can't let it go. You think that guy is mortally wounded by my comment? C'mon, get real, he couldn't give a . he's so concerned that he hasn't even shown up to defend himself, or to have a shot back!

It's supremely ironic that you are having a go at me over this when there are hundreds of trolls and posters who come here ONLY to abuse people. I label one comment sickening and I get both barrels from you... ha!

And BTW, the way people treat each other, and the way they treat the environment, are intimately linked. You think that guy is going to be filled with respect for his fellow man? He just gave the finger to an entire section of society, so no, I doubt he's too concerned about how he treats people.

Dude, this is SPURSTALK. If I didn't know you, walked up to you, and got in your face about something I overheard you saying, fine, I'd be guilty of your charges, but this is a message board full of harsh commentary and conflict. Wake up out of your idealist dream for a moment.

You do this all the time and this is my point. I have let it go for a long time. Yes, you are right, this place has a lot of trolls and people who talk trash. I am fine with that. There is a difference in a troll or someone talking trash about basketball that is "in good nature" or "without malice". You can tell when someone is a trash talker or when someone truly is condescending. You are seemingly the latter.

I have no problem if it is the occasional thing, I do it myself from time to time. Or a momentary lapse in self-control causes you to lose your cool, that is ok. When I have done it, I am quick to apologize. You just keep going and going like an elitist energizer bunny. How precious are you that you try and defend yourself by saying "this other guy does not even care". This has nothing to do with him. It has to do with you.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You talk about people invading your rights, well you are doing the same thing. I have the right to do with my resources as I please, as long as there are no enforceable property rights on such things as "air", "environment" and other things, then you cannot call it an infringement on YOUR rights.

...which entirely misses the point. Just because we have developed an economic system which does not account for pollution or ecosystem services in the price of goods, and just because "enforceable property rights" often do not extend to the commons, does not make that system right or beneficial to the majority of humanity. The point about "my rights" was actually more general - that every person's right to impact on the commons ends where another's rights begin, which is a centrepiece of legal doctrine. I was referring to the fundamental right of everyone on the planet to a healthy environment, and also the rights of the people who come after us to be left with a planet that they can live well on.

We do not pay for the damage we do to common resources like air/soil/water, nor the full price of the resources we deplete. That is the economic problem of externalities. Hiding behind the current, failing system as some kind of justification for waste is a fallacy that future generations will castigate us all for, and rightly so.

[DPG21920]

...which entirely misses the point. Just because we have developed an economic system which does not account for pollution or ecosystem services in the price of goods, and just because "enforceable property rights" often do not extend to the commons, does not make that system right or beneficial to the majority of humanity. The point about "my rights" was actually more general - that every person's right to impact on the commons ends where another's rights begin, which is a centrepiece of legal doctrine. I was referring to the fundamental right of everyone on the planet to a healthy environment, and also the rights of the people who come after us to be left with a planet that they can live well on.

We do not pay for the damage we do to common resources like air/soil/water, nor the full price of the resources we deplete. That is the economic problem of externalities. Hiding behind the current, failing system as some kind of justification for waste is a fallacy that future generations will castigate us all for, and rightly so.

Well, there is no easy answer to it. I am well versed in the economic factors that play into solving/perpetuating any problem there may or may not be. But with regards to you and I, just notice how you talk to people and try and see if you can see what I am saying.

The highlighted portion goes double time for humanity treating each other with respect.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You do this all the time and this is my point. I have let it go for a long time. Yes, you are right, this place has a lot of trolls and people who talk trash. I am fine with that. There is a difference in a troll or someone talking trash about basketball that is "in good nature" or "without malice". You can tell when someone is a trash talker or when someone truly is condescending. You are seemingly the latter.

I have no problem if it is the occasional thing, I do it myself from time to time. Or a momentary lapse in self-control causes you to lose your cool, that is ok. When I have done it, I am quick to apologize. You just keep going and going like an elitist energizer bunny. How precious are you that you try and defend yourself by saying "this other guy does not even care". This has nothing to do with him. It has to do with you.

Well, let's all go and hold hands and sing songs then. When I am harsh it is to comments like this guy's - blatantly inflamatory and/or stupid, illustrating the worst traits of humanity. Should I bite? Probably not. Most of the time these days I don't bother because it's a complete waste of time. Occasionally I feel like a fight so I will have a go, and today is one of those days.

Have you ever seen me be dismissive when someone is putting up a reasonable argument? No, because I do respect people when they behave with some kind of humanity. " the entire "Green" cause", which is what sparked all of this, is not behaving with humanity as far as I can see it. I find it incredible that you support the guy who says that over the guy who calls him on it, but that is your right.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Well, there is no easy answer to it. I am well versed in the economic factors that play into solving/perpetuating any problem there may or may not be. But with regards to you and I, just notice how you talk to people and try and see if you can see what I am saying.

The highlighted portion goes double time for humanity treating each other with respect.

Words on a screen are not necessarily always indicative of the thought processes behind them or the person who writes them. Message boards, SMS and other text-based communication is fraught with miscommunication. I am a very friendly, affable, considerate and respectful person, as can be confirmed by many people on this board who have met me in the flesh.

Sometimes, I don't tolerate moronic posts on ST particularly well, so I have a go at the person, as do most of the people who come here at one time or other. I can only think of a few regulars who never go off (Duncan228 is a great example), and good on them - I respect their control. I am not perfect, never will be, and biting when I am baited is a failing, I will admit... but at the same time, why say something so utterly moronic?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

More OT than most.
The Spurs are at least trying to do SOMETHING...
http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/wind_080618.html

Now the crap about taking commercial flights is absurd.

That is great. Nice move, Spurs.

The next thing they ought to do is address the landfill waste issue by coming up with a recycling system for the food and alcohol packaging they sell at AT&T. they could also require all packaging to be made from recycled materials.

As for the travel, that's a very tough one. They have to travel to do their job. I'm not a huge fan of offsetting, but in this case maybe they should consider buying up some big tracts of marginal land and planting trees to offset their travel emissions, or paying someone else to do it for them.

[Leftyventricle]

alls i was sayin is. how come everyother nba team i have seen in the past week, except for the spurs, is wearing these shirts on the bench:


i think Stern purposefully sent ones to every team except the spurs, knowing they would be on ABC, just to make the spurs look like A-holes.

[Bukefal]

Should be called green weak. This is a basketball forum, not a snide little elitist talking about shrubs & gas forum.

exactly, f*ck green week. Good that the spurs did not even wear those shirts. Its all BS. if they want to do something for the environment, this is not the way by making shirts :P

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

exactly, f*ck green week. Good that the spurs did not even wear those shirts. Its all BS. if they want to do something for the environment, this is not the way by making shirts :P

Totally agree. The NBA is just lying through its teeth to pretend that it is somehow 'green'. Same with all major sports.

[Bukefal]

if they really want to do something a bit more effective; nba should play their games outdoors, at daylight, not selling any cups and packages for food and drinks. Letting the teams travel on road games on electric cars or busses instead of planes etc etc etc. They dont give a . Its just marketing, like heyy "we are doing something good, but we know this isnt working "

[GSH]

Right at first I mis-read the thread le to say "NBA Greek week". That's not a pretty thought. The best possible explanation is that KillBillPana is actually right about something. From there, the possibilities go downhill in a hurry. Then I read the actual thread, and it wasn't any better.

Go eat a ing Big Mac, and stop using the word "modi " on sports forums. You're currently in violation of the sports Don't Ask Don't Tell policy.

[Obstructed_View]

NBA's version of "Green Week" is perfectly appropriate. They pay lip-service to touchstone issues and put out a dog and pony show without doing anything significant about anything. They make themselves feel better and pacify the masses that fear the stare of the rabid environmental idiots.

If the environmental movement ever decides to get out of bed with both Al Gore's political opportunist crowd as well as Greenpeace's anti-democracy movement I'll probably be on board.

As for now, let me just say "NBA Cares"? Wake me up when they change it to "NBA Cares enough to DO."

[triple t's]

its funny how one person is arguing about a a legit point, and the other is arguing about how condecending the person arguing is being towards them lol

GUY 1
"hey we need to save the environment! we're polluting the atmosphere! save the world! save ourselves!"

GUY 2
"hey, don't yell at me."

hilarious.

But anyways, environmental concern is a huge issue in the world that we all live in, and the fact that the nba took up the cause for a week and a notable gesture. that being said, i'm sure anyone can sit here and pinpoint things that we all do that are hypocritical, but the fact is regardless of whose saying it; the truth is the truth. but the world will continue to prod along at the expense of the environment because an alternative hasn't presented itself in a profitable manner. Despite the end users efforts, we still have to use energies we have until those in charge actually do something about it. Until then, we are all burning excess fuels in our hummers, sports cars and suv's.fact is, this country has a knack for change only after its become an overwhelmingly apparent crisis, and likely to continue to , moan and call everone a hypocrite for considering any worthy cause. "now that solves everything!" But that's what everone wants; for everyone to shut up and mind theyre own business so that they can get back to their playstations and gameboys and xbox 360's because those toys make them feel good inside! Good in a manner other than actually doing something that involes them actually peeling their eyes away from their LCD screens and HD signals for more than a few minutes to step outside and breathe the freshly smogged air. but there's nothing like sweet ignorance; that great ole' american past-time.

[Obstructed_View]

its funny how one person is arguing about a a legit point, and the other is arguing about how condecending the person arguing is being towards them lol

GUY 1
"hey we need to save the environment! we're polluting the atmosphere! save the world! save ourselves!"

GUY 2
"hey, don't yell at me."

hilarious.

But anyways, environmental concern is a huge issue in the world that we all live in, and the fact that the nba took up the cause for a week and a notable gesture. that being said, i'm sure anyone can sit here and pinpoint things that we all do that are hypocritical, but the fact is regardless of whose saying it; the truth is the truth. but the world will continue to prod along at the expense of the environment because an alternative hasn't presented itself in a profitable manner. Despite the end users efforts, we still have to use energies we have until those in charge actually do something about it. Until then, we are all burning excess fuels in our hummers, sports cars and suv's.fact is, this country has a knack for change only after its become an overwhelmingly apparent crisis, and likely to continue to , moan and call everone a hypocrite for considering any worthy cause. "now that solves everything!" But that's what everone wants; for everyone to shut up and mind theyre own business so that they can get back to their playstations and gameboys and xbox 360's because those toys make them feel good inside! Good in a manner other than actually doing something that involes them actually peeling their eyes away from their LCD screens and HD signals for more than a few minutes to step outside and breathe the freshly smogged air. but there's nothing like sweet ignorance; that great ole' american past-time.

Wow, you should be doing something with all that guilt other than sitting on your ass lecturing other people on an Internet message board. The new American pastime is quickly becoming lip-service, and is taking place on a very high horse.

[duncan228]

Seemed like the place to put this.

H-E-B, Eva Longoria Parker are encouraging people to go ‘green’
San Antonio Business Journal

H.E. Butt Grocery Co. (H-E-B) and actress Eva Longoria Parker have produced a new 30-second commercial that encourages shoppers to become more environmentally conscious.

The commercial, which will debut on Wednesday, April 1, features the Desperate Housewives star giving reasons why it is important to recycle. H-E-B produced the spot as part of its Earth Day campaign. The commercial will run throughout the month of April. According to the campaign, H-E-B’s recycling efforts already save almost 2 million trees a year. And when customers use just one reusable shopping bag when buying groceries, it replaces six plastic bags, according to H-E-B.

H-E-B sells a line of reusable bags to encourage people to forego having groceries packed in plastic bags. During this campaign, customers also will be able to buy a limited-edition Eva Longoria Parker reusable bag. The bags will sell for $1.49 at H-E-B stores in Texas through April 30, 2009.

“We believe that H-E-B’s continuous work to care for the environment not only makes us better neighbors — it makes us a stronger business,” says Cory Basso, H-E-B Group Vice President of Marketing and Advertising. “Promoting the reusable ‘green’ bags is just one small part of what H-E-B does for the environment, from minimizing our use of natural resources and minimizing wastes, to recycling, conserving energy and protecting the air quality.”

H-E-B allows customers to recycle their plastic bags at store bins and H-E-B also works to recycle alumninum, steel, oil, cardboard and computers at the company. H-E-B also invested in a system that reuses condensation from manufacturing steam equipment, saving 6.2 million gallons of water each year. In addition, H-E-B recycles its truck tires and the company’s stores in Kyle, Victoria and its store at U.S. Highway 281 and Evans Road will soon sell mulch made from recycled tires.

“The environment is very important to me and through various initiatives of my own and with partners like H-E-B, I work to educate people about what they can do to save the planet by using less energy, recycling and implementing ‘green’ business and personal practices,” says Longoria Parker, who is also the wife of San Antonio Spurs guard Tony Parker.

San Antonio-based H-E-B operates more than 300 stores in Texas and northern Mexico and has more than 70,000 employees. It is one of the largest food chains in the United States with more than $15 billion in annual sales and is the largest privately held company in Texas.

[triple t's]

Wow, you should be doing something with all that guilt other than sitting on your ass lecturing other people on an Internet message board. The new American pastime is quickly becoming lip-service, and is taking place on a very high horse.

but what good would it do to you, regardless of my eco related activities. You'd still proclaim someone a hypocrite if they weren't in it all 100%. What good it is to a person with a consistently obstructed view ... or is that name just lip service. Its suppose its just easier to point and complain

[GSH]

Its suppose its just easier to point and complain.

Ummm.. o. I think that's what started all this - someone pointing and complaining. Read the OP. The part about his carbon footprint being smaller than everyone else's, and his life being so much more wonderful. You guys don't know about me, or anyone else on this anonymous forum. Maybe it's not the message we object to so strongly; we just don't ing like you or your at ude.

There's an old saying, "If everybody swept in front of his own door, the whole town would be clean". If all of the activists in the world would spend less time blogging, and more time cleaning up, a big chunk of your problem wouldn't be a problem anymore. This is just a warmed-over version of the 60's - lots of talking and not much doing. A lot of ideas about how other people should live their lives, coming from people who think no one should tell them what to do, ever.

Get off your ing computer and go fix something. Or are you just "idea guys"?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

NBA's version of "Green Week" is perfectly appropriate. They pay lip-service to touchstone issues and put out a dog and pony show without doing anything significant about anything. They make themselves feel better and pacify the masses that fear the stare of the rabid environmental idiots.

If the environmental movement ever decides to get out of bed with both Al Gore's political opportunist crowd as well as Greenpeace's anti-democracy movement I'll probably be on board.

As for now, let me just say "NBA Cares"? Wake me up when they change it to "NBA Cares enough to DO."

I think you're conflating political opportunism and moderate environmentalism. I don't give a about Al Gore - in fact, I think he set the cause back 10 years by making it party political. Truth is that the environment is everyone's responsibility, regardless of their political stripe, because it supports us all.

its funny how one person is arguing about a a legit point, and the other is arguing about how condecending the person arguing is being towards them lol

GUY 1
"hey we need to save the environment! we're polluting the atmosphere! save the world! save ourselves!"

GUY 2
"hey, don't yell at me."

hilarious.

But anyways, environmental concern is a huge issue in the world that we all live in, and the fact that the nba took up the cause for a week and a notable gesture. that being said, i'm sure anyone can sit here and pinpoint things that we all do that are hypocritical, but the fact is regardless of whose saying it; the truth is the truth. but the world will continue to prod along at the expense of the environment because an alternative hasn't presented itself in a profitable manner. Despite the end users efforts, we still have to use energies we have until those in charge actually do something about it. Until then, we are all burning excess fuels in our hummers, sports cars and suv's.fact is, this country has a knack for change only after its become an overwhelmingly apparent crisis, and likely to continue to , moan and call everone a hypocrite for considering any worthy cause. "now that solves everything!" But that's what everone wants; for everyone to shut up and mind theyre own business so that they can get back to their playstations and gameboys and xbox 360's because those toys make them feel good inside! Good in a manner other than actually doing something that involes them actually peeling their eyes away from their LCD screens and HD signals for more than a few minutes to step outside and breathe the freshly smogged air. but there's nothing like sweet ignorance; that great ole' american past-time.

DPG didn't like the fact I was harsh to that guy. Boo-hoo. We're on Spurstalk and sometimes people are a little nasty.

As for waiting for "those in charge to do something", I don't agree. Sure, we need a concerted effort from government and corporations to live in a more sustainable world, but RIGHT NOW every individual has power over their consumptive choices, and the sum of those choices equals the aggregate demand for a product. Buy greener products and services and the market will change. The way in which we use things, and the way we live, is entirely within each individual's power.

Ummm.. o. I think that's what started all this - someone pointing and complaining. Read the OP. The part about his carbon footprint being smaller than everyone else's, and his life being so much more wonderful. You guys don't know about me, or anyone else on this anonymous forum. Maybe it's not the message we object to so strongly; we just don't ing like you or your at ude.

There's an old saying, "If everybody swept in front of his own door, the whole town would be clean". If all of the activists in the world would spend less time blogging, and more time cleaning up, a big chunk of your problem wouldn't be a problem anymore. This is just a warmed-over version of the 60's - lots of talking and not much doing. A lot of ideas about how other people should live their lives, coming from people who think no one should tell them what to do, ever.

Get off your ing computer and go fix something. Or are you just "idea guys"?

Oh for sake, my point about having a lower footprint (not just carbon, everything, because carbon is only one part of the picture, although it is a proxy for many things) and my life being just fine was not to look down on people, it was to point out that it isn't a big sacrifice to live more sustainably - it just means changing some simple behaviours and being conscious of your consumption and its impacts. A lot of people see anything environmentally conscious as the end of the world as they know it, and it's NOT. That was my point.

As for your second paragraph, that's also why I mentioned my environmental footprint - I am not just talking about it, I have acted in my own life, made significant advances, and look, I'm still happy and healthy and not living in a cave and eating dirt.

One of the really lovely offshoots of modifying your lifestyle towards sustainability is that you start to appreciate things more - yesterday I went to the gym and afterward really wanted a Solo (lemon soda - I generally try to avoid processed food as much as possible, both for its health and environmental impacts), so on the ride home I got one, and as I cracked it open I thought "this is a real luxury" and really enjoyed the out of it. When was the last time you really enjoyed the out of a can of soda? Once you start to understand the impact of consumption, everything takes on a greater value, and in a way it's like everything is new again. Does this mean I'm looking down on everyone else about it? No, not at all, I'm trying to explain to all the people who are fearful of a more sustainable world that it won't mean the end of their enjoyment of life and that it may actually enhance it.

[GSH]

yesterday I went to the gym and afterward really wanted a Solo (lemon soda - I generally try to avoid processed food as much as possible, both for its health and environmental impacts),

Do you realize how much fossil fuel it costs to heat and cool your gym, just so that you can get some normal exercise in your day? That implies that you also work in some cushy office environment that doesn't give you the opportunity for any sort of physical activity. Why don't you practice what you preach, and become a gardner or a carpenter or something? You wouldn't need that damned gym membership, and you wouldn't take up a carbon-eating space in an office building. Of course, you wouldn't make as much money. Or have as much time to sit at your laptop and blog about .

And what's the big deal about giving up processed foods? If you want any respect here, give up refrigeration. And cooking over anything that requires the use of fossil fuels. And ibuprofen... and antibiotics. (The pharmaceutical industries really things up.) And stop bathing daily, because we're running out of clean water quicker than anything else. But don't use any deoderant, because it's worse than ibuprofen and antibiotics - even the stick kind. And tell your girlfriend (or boyfriend) not to use any cosmetics, because you don't care about looks. Listen to Cheryl Crowe and only use two squares of toilet paper to wipe your ass. And don't run any lights at night - ever. In fact, stay out of lit areas after dark, as a form of protest. If you must have light, save your farts, and burn the methane.

There's so much for you to do, how do you have time to preach to us? Go do your . If you're committed enough to stay with it, we'll all be impressed and follow. You appear to be too self-absorbed to have noticed that a lot of other people make a conscious effort to preserve the planet on a daily basis. We're just not so ing obnoxious about it. You sound like my parents did when they finally quit smoking. They lectured everyone - even people who never smoked.

[Obstructed_View]

I suppose its just easier to point and complain

You're living proof of that.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Do you realize how much fossil fuel it costs to heat and cool your gym, just so that you can get some normal exercise in your day? That implies that you also work in some cushy office environment that doesn't give you the opportunity for any sort of physical activity. Why don't you practice what you preach, and become a gardner or a carpenter or something? You wouldn't need that damned gym membership, and you wouldn't take up a carbon-eating space in an office building. Of course, you wouldn't make as much money. Or have as much time to sit at your laptop and blog about .

And what's the big deal about giving up processed foods? If you want any respect here, give up refrigeration. And cooking over anything that requires the use of fossil fuels. And ibuprofen... and antibiotics. (The pharmaceutical industries really things up.) And stop bathing daily, because we're running out of clean water quicker than anything else. But don't use any deoderant, because it's worse than ibuprofen and antibiotics - even the stick kind. And tell your girlfriend (or boyfriend) not to use any cosmetics, because you don't care about looks. Listen to Cheryl Crowe and only use two squares of toilet paper to wipe your ass. And don't run any lights at night - ever. In fact, stay out of lit areas after dark, as a form of protest. If you must have light, save your farts, and burn the methane.

There's so much for you to do, how do you have time to preach to us? Go do your . If you're committed enough to stay with it, we'll all be impressed and follow. You appear to be too self-absorbed to have noticed that a lot of other people make a conscious effort to preserve the planet on a daily basis. We're just not so ing obnoxious about it. You sound like my parents did when they finally quit smoking. They lectured everyone - even people who never smoked.

at all your assumptions about me and my lifestyle.

Mate, don't lecture me on the issues, I work as a sustainability consultant and know all about them. I teach, energy audit, and do consultancy work, and I don't make much money doing it because money is not my major concern.

The gym I go to uses little power as it has large windows which are well designed to let the light in. And I get a lot of exercise in other ways like riding my bike, which also greatly reduces my petrol consumption and bill. Your last post indicates that you think I don't know what I'm talking about and that I haven't done anything about my lifestyle, but as I have already stated, I have acted in my own life. I keep a spreadsheet monitoring everything I consume - electricity, water, LPG, food, etc - so that I can see exactly what my impact on the planet is, so lecturing me on that is a bit redundant.

As for giving up refrigeration and cooking - it is ideas like those that make people run away screaming from the idea of sustainability. The idea is not to tell people to give everything up overnight because there's no way that is going to happen, and nor should it - once conscious of the impact of consumption, people usually naturally consume less. The idea is to show people how to cut the waste out of their lives (because most people waste a lot without thinking about it), and to educate people on the alternatives like locally grown fresh food and renewable energy. To be extremist about it, as you are, will only send people in the opposite direction. If everyone cut their footprint by 5%pa for the next decade (which is easily achievable), many of our environmental problems would be well on the way to a manageable solution.

The first step anyone should make is to minimise the waste in their lives - you can cut your power consumption by 50% just by changing the way you use heating/cooling, hot water heating, appliances, and lighting, and then you can buy power from renewable sources which helps to stimulate investment in the sector. I buy green power (from a wind farm) and have minimised my consumption through behaviour change - the average Australian house uses 22kWh/day, I use 6kWh/day and declining. You can change your use of transport - use public transport a few times a week, ride a bike, walk to the shops, car pool, plan your trips to maximise their utility. You can change your routines, like showering when you need it rather than as a habit, washing clothes when they get dirty rather than after one use, and taking shorter showers, buying only recycled paper and plastic products, using 5 sheets instead of toilet paper instead of 15 when wiping your arse, repairing, reusing and recycling before buying things new, etc. etc. etc.

I find it incredible that you have such a negative reaction to what I'm saying - how is what I said in my last post obnoxious? How can you not understand that all I'm trying to point out is that sustainability is not the end of the world? How is this:

"Once you start to understand the impact of consumption, everything takes on a greater value, and in a way it's like everything is new again. Does this mean I'm looking down on everyone else about it? No, not at all, I'm trying to explain to all the people who are fearful of a more sustainable world that it won't mean the end of their enjoyment of life and that it may actually enhance it."

obnoxious?

Your anger towards me is incredible.