Just go here:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brent_...on_splits.html
Good work, though.
From a time management standpoint it doesn't make sense not to start Manu. You start the game with Manu on the bench it will limit the number of well rested minutes he can play in the game as opposed to letting him start, get a rest then get back in.
Some points of the game are more important than others. You'd rather have a player on your team who averaged ten points in the fourth than a player who averaged ten points in the first, right?
D'oh! Don't I feel stupidThanks so much though!
Okay so taking those stats, break them down by minute:
STARTING
PPG: 11.4
APG: 4.0
RPG: 4.1
BENCH
PPG: 10.4
APG: 3.4
RPG: 3.0
There's a difference but I don't believe it's such a huuuuge difference. Just my opinion though.
Sorry, I just pulled it off his splits at ESPN.com. I guess they weren't updated.
Well you're going to need those 10 points regardless of when they are scored right?
Ginofan -- look at Barry's PERCENTAGES as a starter vs a sub -- that was my point. He shoots 10% higher from the field and 6% higher on 3's as a starter. That's HUGE.
How Manu gets his 30 minutes as a starter:
FIRST QUARTER AND THIRD QUARTER
Tip until six minutes to go -- Six Minutes
Return with two minutes to go -- Two Minutes
SECOND QUARTER AND FOURTH QUARTER
Start until ten minutes to go -- Two Minutes
Return with five minutes to go -- Five Minutes
How Manu would get his 30 minutes as a bench player:
FIRST QUARTER AND THIRD QUARTER
Enter and play the rest of the way at the six minute mark -- Six Minutes
SECOND QUARTER AND FOURTH QUARTER
Start until ten minutes to go -- Two Minutes
Return with seven minutes to go -- Seven Minutes
I think the second option is a lot more simple and he plays more important minutes. Plus he gets extra rest at the start of the game and after halftime.
I guess if you are just looking at it mathematically. But shots in the fourth quarter are more important than shots in the first quarter. It's how the game works.
Superstars and championships are made in the fourth quarter.
Extra rest at the start????? After he's stretched, warmed up and then come into the game off the bench cold and stiff? That's not to good for Manu's style. Neither is playing 18 minutes straight to end the first half.
Re-read it.Neither is playing 18 minutes straight to end the first half.
It didn't seem to bother him in the championship season or last year. Look at his numbers versus the Lakers last season.
That's not what it says. He gets a three minute break in the second and fourth quarters -- close to what he gets now and around the same as he got in past seasons.Neither is playing 18 minutes straight to end the first half.
Yeah I agree with that...the 4th is the most important quarter of the game, but I also have to believe that points scored in the 1st through the 3rd are what get you to the heated moments of the 4th...ya know?
Okay, I can see your point. But isn't it kind of hard to figure out percentages per minute...lol I guess it's just by preference whether go by percentages or not? I don't know.
Overall though...I mean, sure Pop could bring Manu off the bench the rest of the season after this initial easing period but I just don't think there's a significant difference in what Barry does as a starter than when he comes off the bench. He's playing his worst basketball in 5-6 years...we brought him in to do one thing really well...outside shooting and it's not happening. I'm not just saying this because I don't want Manu coming off the bench I'm saying this just as from what I've observed.
My mistake on the 18 minute stretch.
I still think Manu us more susceptible to injury coming in cold off the bench.
To me most critical times of a game are:
1. Begiining of a game. Ideally get off to a strong start but at a minimum not fall way behind and be climbing up hill, messing up your rotations the rest of the half.
2. End of the first half, last 4-5 minutes. Finish strong.
3. Beginning of the third. Again maintain a lead, stay even or climb back in.
4. Fourth quarter of a tight game.
That's when Manu needs to be in.
Last edited by picnroll; 03-19-2005 at 07:06 PM.
I aslo think that Manu needs to be in when Tim is in...they are the most complementary tandem on the team (and the entire league).
Good points.
But the reason why I think Manu will start is Pop thinks the most important part of the games are:
1. End of the first quarter
2. End of the second quarter
3. End of the third quarter
4. End of the fourth quarter
It's what he stresses as much as defense. Having Manu on the court with fresh legs at each of these stages is Pop's dream.
IMO, unless you have a back injury or something like that, you don't get "cold" by not starting the game. Once you stretch and put on your warmups, you can stay limber ... especially seeing as you're only sitting out the first six minutes.
Well as a starter, his outside shooting percentages are up with his career-averages. So he's been doing what he was brought in to do when he's been starting. He's a lot more efficient in that role. Hopefully he'll be able to maintain it when he goes back to the bench.He's playing his worst basketball in 5-6 years...we brought him in to do one thing really well...outside shooting and it's not happening.
For the record, I don't think he'll stay a starter ... but you never know with Pop.
Pop IS full of surprises this season...trading malik, bringing in 2 guys post all star break...and they aren't necessarily bad but just...surprising. I hope the surprises stop there lol
Whether Manu starts or comes off the bench it is not a big difference if he still gets his 30 minutes a game.
IMO Manu will be the starter but you never know with Pop.
Benching Manu for good? Completely insane considering last season outcome
P.S.: It's not like Devin Brown would be the starter...
Well, there is a simple solution to this, get a damn good shooter on the team so the best players in the team are on the starting line up. IMO i think the big 3 starting might be good enough for a champion ship even if the bench sucks.
Didn't we?get a damn good shooter on the team
Barry's %s as a starter say yes.
The fourth quarter is the most important but's not like Manu isn't getting heavy duty in the fourth as a starter. Easing him back into his regular minutes off the bench is probably a good idea. Giving Barry his starting job, especially given how Barry's responded, is re ed.
The Lakers should bring Kobe off the bench. Those 10 minutes he plays in the first quarter are wasted.
mmm why don't we do the same with tony?
start beno and TP will have fresh legs for ends of Qs....
But why the 5best players start a game if the Qs ends are the most important?
Shouldn't the 5 best players come off the bench?
the only thing you have to worry about is : "are the 5 on the floor complementary or not? do they bring the best out of eachother..."
Starting a game well can be very important if you are as tough as the spurs can be on D... Early double digit diff can be a great gift...
The problem is that, it seems this team is struggling when leading by 15/20+ in the third and they have to finish hard to avoid being defeated...
Last edited by stéphane; 03-19-2005 at 11:28 PM.
not all starters can come off the bench
hedo could not come off the bench and play well
manu is special he can and he brings a big spark off the bench
beno is good but I am not sure how well he would do against OTHER TEAM STARTERS
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