Could Losing In the First Round Help in The Long Run?

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs don't have any problem acquiring young talent. The NBA is full of former young Spurs. , the playoffs are full of former young Spurs.

[TwinTowers]

Last year, it should have been apparent how badly the team needed younger, athletic, more talented players. But since they managed to will their way to a Game 7 victory over New Orleans, and since a hobbled Manu provided a good excuse for why the Spurs lost to the Lakers, all of the growing weaknesses were ignored during the offseason.

Regardless the outcome of this POs, Spurs front office know that moves need to be made, but I don't think the 'weaknesses' were ignored. SA has added some young talent with lots of potential; it's just a matter of knowing how to develop that talent. The problem has been that in some cases (Mahinmi's injury, Splitter's contract with TAU) unforseen issues have hurt their efforts to improve the roster, or young players (Hill) don't get the minutes they need/deserve to gain confidence on their game.

[the crimson blur]

Relevance is not determined by championships. A ring isn't the only thing to fight for. You won't have a chance at a ring every year, but as a fan, you can only hope that your team exceeds expectations. Whether it is simply making the playoffs, winning a series, or winning a championship, there are a lot of things to cheer for as a fan. Whatever it is, you can't give up on your team.

If Spurs fans are going to act like a championship is the only thing to fight for, I don't know what the future holds for the Spurs in San Antonio. Think about Golden State fans against Dallas in 07. Did they think they were winning a ring? No. But they still supported their team. Seeing Game 1's empty stands made me think that Spurs fans don't realize that supporting your team comes at all times, whether they are the best or they are the worst. Forgetting that is forgetting the spirit of basketball, and neglecting the heart and desire of all the players that are taken for granted.

Enjoy this season. Memories will be made regardless of whether we win or lose. Do you want to be the guy cheering for the Spurs or cheering against them? I know what I want to be. A Spurs fan, now and forever.

[rascal]

Relevance is not determined by championships. A ring isn't the only thing to fight for. You won't have a chance at a ring every year, but as a fan, you can only hope that your team exceeds expectations. Whether it is simply making the playoffs, winning a series, or winning a championship, there are a lot of things to cheer for as a fan. Whatever it is, you can't give up on your team.

If Spurs fans are going to act like a championship is the only thing to fight for, I don't know what the future holds for the Spurs in San Antonio. Think about Golden State fans against Dallas in 07. Did they think they were winning a ring? No. But they still supported their team. Seeing Game 1's empty stands made me think that Spurs fans don't realize that supporting your team comes at all times, whether they are the best or they are the worst. Forgetting that is forgetting the spirit of basketball, and neglecting the heart and desire of all the players that are taken for granted.

Enjoy this season. Memories will be made regardless of whether we win or lose. Do you want to be the guy cheering for the Spurs or cheering against them? I know what I want to be. A Spurs fan, now and forever.

When you have Duncan and 4 les with him on the roster the bar is set and that bar is championships because the window for les will close when he is gone.

[the crimson blur]

When you have Duncan and 4 les with him on the roster the bar is set and that bar is championships because the window for les will close when he is gone.

I don't understand the argument here. If simply having Duncan gives you a chance to win it all--and it does in my opinion; I agree with LJ's 1-3% projection--then why would you quit on the Spurs before they even have had a chance to fight? Isn't there more pride in a deep playoff run than a quick first round exit?

Do you guys think that Timmy's 3 pointer against PHX was a waste? That it ultimately led to nothing? Winning is the goal, regardless of the cir stance.

[rascal]

I don't understand the argument here. If simply having Duncan gives you a chance to win it all--and it does in my opinion; I agree with LJ's 1-3% projection--then why would you quit on the Spurs before they even have had a chance to fight? Isn't there more pride in a deep playoff run than a quick first round exit?

Do you guys think that Timmy's 3 pointer against PHX was a waste? That it ultimately led to nothing? Winning is the goal, regardless of the cir stance.

By having Duncan they have a chance to win it all but they need to surround him with enough talent to win it. Especially now that the Lakers have become a force again since the Gasol trade. The spurs need to upgrade their roster to keep pace with the Lakers, they haven't done that.


Duncan is the cornerstone franchise player that you build around. You need to start with a player like Duncan to even have a chance to win it all, then surround him with the right complimentary players.

The spurs are not just playing for pride. They are better than just seeking pride. Atlanta, Denver and Portland are playing for pride and a playoff round or two victory is a big success for those young up and coming teams. The spurs are beyond playing just for pride.

Losing in the wcf again is no great achievement for the spurs anymore and it would have been better for the spurs to have a top 3 lottery pick if they were to get lucky again then losing to the Lakers in the wcf again.

[the crimson blur]

By having Duncan they have a chance to win it all but they need to surround him with enough talent to win it. Especially now that the Lakers have become a force again since the Gasol trade. The spurs need to upgrade their roster to keep pace with the Lakers, they haven't done that.


Duncan is the cornerstone franchise player that you build around. You need to start with a player like Duncan to even have a chance to win it all, then surround him with the right complimentary players.

The spurs are not just playing for pride. They are better than just seeking pride. Atlanta, Denver and Portland are playing for pride and a playoff round or two victory is a big success for those young up and coming teams. The spurs are beyond playing just for pride.

Losing in the wcf again is no great achievement for the spurs anymore and it would have been better for the spurs to have a top 3 lottery pick if they were to get lucky again then losing to the Lakers in the wcf again.

You don't think the Spurs play for pride? You think Tim Duncan would rather tank a season than go to the WCF again?

I hate to repeat myself, but you are "forgetting the spirit of basketball, and neglecting the heart and desire of all the players that are taken for granted."

And, also, as a fan, you are forgetting how hard it is to win a series in the NBA. You speak of making it to the WCF as if it is no achievement at all. Whole franchises (e.g. the Kings) talk about their golden age as that which they made the conference finals. This goes back to my point that Spurs fans are acting spoiled.

[Agloco]

What a depressing thing to read before I've had my morning coffee.

It's even more depressing after I've had my coffee and have sobered up.........

The OP has some really good points, and overall it's a well thought out "what if" . While timvp has a good point, I dont think the OP meant long run as in 5-6 years from now. I think he meant long run as in the next few years with Timmy still in the mix.

I also believe, just as the OP does, that the FO was deluded into believing that the team was ok after last seasons playoff performance. It was obvious to most though, that the Spurs just weren't getting any production consistently outside of the big three.

While younger legs on the perimeter would be a welcome sight, I would settle for a grizzled veteran in the middle to compliment Timmy for his remaining years.(read: Camby, Sheed)

[ElNono]

You don't think the Spurs play for pride? You think Tim Duncan would rather tank a season than go to the WCF again?

I hate to repeat myself, but you are "forgetting the spirit of basketball, and neglecting the heart and desire of all the players that are taken for granted."

And, also, as a fan, you are forgetting how hard it is to win a series in the NBA. You speak of making it to the WCF as if it is no achievement at all. Whole franchises (e.g. the Kings) talk about their golden age as that which they made the conference finals. This goes back to my point that Spurs fans are acting spoiled.

FYI, you're talking to a Laker fan.

[ElNono]

It's even more depressing after I've had my coffee and have sobered up.........

The OP has some really good points, and overall it's a well thought out "what if" . While timvp has a good point, I dont think the OP meant long run as in 5-6 years from now. I think he meant long run as in the next few years with Timmy still in the mix.

I also believe, just as the OP does, that the FO was deluded into believing that the team was ok after last seasons playoff performance. It was obvious to most though, that the Spurs just weren't getting any production consistently outside of the big three.

While younger legs on the perimeter would be a welcome sight, I would settle for a grizzled veteran in the middle to compliment Timmy for his remaining years.(read: Camby, Sheed)

They went for Corey Maggette, and he got a better offer. They got Mason. They drafted Hill and played him. They went for Camby, and it didn't work out. They went for VC and it didn't work out either. Then they signed Gooden.

It's not like the FO didn't go out there to try to get more pieces. Sometimes, because of the contracts you have, or the situation a player is in, it's not that easy to actually get the moves done. But at least this season specifically, it was not because they didn't try.

[vednam]

Relevance is not determined by championships. A ring isn't the only thing to fight for. You won't have a chance at a ring every year, but as a fan, you can only hope that your team exceeds expectations. Whether it is simply making the playoffs, winning a series, or winning a championship, there are a lot of things to cheer for as a fan. Whatever it is, you can't give up on your team.

If Spurs fans are going to act like a championship is the only thing to fight for, I don't know what the future holds for the Spurs in San Antonio. Think about Golden State fans against Dallas in 07. Did they think they were winning a ring? No. But they still supported their team. Seeing Game 1's empty stands made me think that Spurs fans don't realize that supporting your team comes at all times, whether they are the best or they are the worst. Forgetting that is forgetting the spirit of basketball, and neglecting the heart and desire of all the players that are taken for granted.

Enjoy this season. Memories will be made regardless of whether we win or lose. Do you want to be the guy cheering for the Spurs or cheering against them? I know what I want to be. A Spurs fan, now and forever.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still rooting for the Spurs to win as much as they can. I'm enjoying every chance I get to watch possibly the greatest player of all time perform. I'm enjoying watching Tony Parker shred defenses. I'm even appreciating every smooth Finley jumper that swishes through the net.

I'm just wondering if an overachieving (but ringless) playoff run could be damaging in the sense that it deludes the front office into thinking the team is better than it is. Duncan is looking like a lion in the winter, and it's a sad thought that he may never get a chance to lead the Spurs to a championship again. He needs help and the front office needs a wake up call.

[dbestpro]

It's nice to say we need to get younger and more athletic but there is another truth. Guys like Hairston, Gist, Williams and even Hill or all young athletic guys but will not be allowed to compete against teams with young "name" players. One maybe, but you will never see the pod of those guys get the benefit of any call in any game of significance.

[papashango]

I agree with this 100 percent.

More Bowen and Hill, more Kurt Thomas/Drew Gooden, cut Finley and Mason's minutes to just 25-28 a game, and cut Bonner's minutes to 2-5.

Isn't that what Finley and Mason average now lol? Around 28 minutes an ight?

[101A]

If the Spurs are NOT going to win a championship (they aen't); I'd just as soon they get swept. More rest.

[the crimson blur]

Don't get me wrong. I'm still rooting for the Spurs to win as much as they can. I'm enjoying every chance I get to watch possibly the greatest player of all time perform. I'm enjoying watching Tony Parker shred defenses. I'm even appreciating every smooth Finley jumper that swishes through the net.

Well, at least you're a fan then

I'm just wondering if an overachieving (but ringless) playoff run could be damaging in the sense that it deludes the front office into thinking the team is better than it is. Duncan is looking like a lion in the winter, and it's a sad thought that he may never get a chance to lead the Spurs to a championship again. He needs help and the front office needs a wake up call.

Eh, I don't think they aren't trying. They've tried so many trades this season, and the transition to athletic, younger players is evident. I think the Spurs FO is going to try to do something big regardless of what happens. And, realistically, we aren't that far away from a championship. A few more pieces and we'd be a major contender again.

[papashango]

Don't get me wrong. I'm still rooting for the Spurs to win as much as they can. I'm enjoying every chance I get to watch possibly the greatest player of all time perform. I'm enjoying watching Tony Parker shred defenses. I'm even appreciating every smooth Finley jumper that swishes through the net.

I'm just wondering if an overachieving (but ringless) playoff run could be damaging in the sense that it deludes the front office into thinking the team is better than it is. Duncan is looking like a lion in the winter, and it's a sad thought that he may never get a chance to lead the Spurs to a championship again. He needs help and the front office needs a wake up call.

I don't think so. I mean its hard to argue that a team needs to be improved when they win a championship but have the Spurs ever stood pat after a championship? Look at the Celtics. Clearly a dominant team yet signed Mikki Moore and Stephon Marbury and had a solid draft. If there's a chance to upgrade but there's only so much you can do with no trade bait and being over the cap.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

This is the answer

http://euroleague2008.infrontams.biz...up.php?id=2902

[Bender]

If the Spurs are NOT going to win a championship (they aen't); I'd just as soon they get swept. More rest.

what rest? isn't Parker taking off to europe to play during the summer?

[NRHector]

Don't get me wrong. I'm still rooting for the Spurs to win as much as they can. I'm enjoying every chance I get to watch possibly the greatest player of all time perform. I'm enjoying watching Tony Parker shred defenses. I'm even appreciating every smooth Finley jumper that swishes through the net.

I'm just wondering if an overachieving (but ringless) playoff run could be damaging in the sense that it deludes the front office into thinking the team is better than it is. Duncan is looking like a lion in the winter, and it's a sad thought that he may never get a chance to lead the Spurs to a championship again. He needs help and the front office needs a wake up call.

you know what? I'm with you in this one, Duncan deserves another ring befores he retires just like when DRob retired Duncan helped DRob get his rings so now is the time for someone else to help Duncan get his.
Duncan needs to go to the FO and demand better support, look what happened when Koby made all that noise to the FO 2 years ago, he got Gasol, Araiza and some other players, so hopefully the FO gets the wake up call.

[howbouthemspurs]

NNOOOO! .... losing in the first round is not optional!

[Muser]

We lost game 1, that is all, no need to panic.

Lose game 2 then this topic will have relevance.

[SenorSpur]

They went for Corey Maggette, and he got a better offer. They got Mason. They drafted Hill and played him. They went for Camby, and it didn't work out. They went for VC and it didn't work out either. Then they signed Gooden.

It's not like the FO didn't go out there to try to get more pieces. Sometimes, because of the contracts you have, or the situation a player is in, it's not that easy to actually get the moves done. But at least this season specifically, it was not because they didn't try.

You're right on your points. Yet, the biggest issue that I keep bringing up, and the one that continues to be this team's achilles heel, is the swingman spot. Sure they've got players there, but they do not have one guy who possesses the necessary athleticism, length and skill to be a demon on defense and a competent scorer on offense. If fact, they've not had such a player since Jax left the building - and that was six years ago!

In fact, that is EXACTLY the type of player that bothers Dirk. If anyone saw the 2007 NBA first round series between Mavs and Warriors, Nelson smothered Dirk with Jax as a primary, deny-the-ball, defender and then rushed him with constant double-teams.

It is absolutely unforgivable for the Spurs roster to still be missing that type of player.

[HarlemHeat37]

How is Gist in that regard? I haven't seen him play, but he sounds like a guy that has the body type that you're looking for Senor..

[ElNono]

You're right on your points. Yet, the biggest issue that I keep bringing up, and the one that continues to be this team's achilles heel, is the swingman spot. Sure they've got players there, but they do not have one guy who possesses the necessary athleticism, length and skill to be a demon on defense and a competent scorer on offense. If fact, they've not had such a player since Jax left the building - and that was six years ago!

In fact, that is EXACTLY the type of player that bothers Dirk. If anyone saw the 2007 NBA first round series between Mavs and Warriors, Nelson smothered Dirk with Jax as a primary, deny-the-ball, defender and then rushed him with constant double-teams.

It is absolutely unforgivable for the Spurs roster to still be missing that type of player.

But who? Raja Bell is a guy I wouldn't mind filling that role, but I don't think he realistically could have been had. SJax is out of the question. Artest was available, but very expensive, selfish and a big gamble. I like Battier also, but I think he's pretty happy in Houston. You have to give me somebody that's unhappy with his team, doesn't earn a max or near max contract and has all the qualities you mentioned. There really isn't that many guys out there, especially that can really play solid D.

[the crimson blur]

But who? Raja Bell is a guy I wouldn't mind filling that role, but I don't think he realistically could have been had. SJax is out of the question. Artest was available, but very expensive, selfish and a big gamble. I like Battier also, but I think he's pretty happy in Houston. You have to give me somebody that's unhappy with his team, doesn't earn a max or near max contract and has all the qualities you mentioned. There really isn't that many guys out there, especially that can really play solid D.

I'd absolutely love if we got Trevor Ariza from free agency this summer. I seems near impossible, but he is the perfect man for the job.