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If you start hurting the 2010 cap space by signing a player like CV, the best choice is to use Spurs expiring contracts' to get player(s).
Well it still makes sense to get talent when you can, even if it comes in phases. Ideally you would like the Spurs to make over all the positions of need at once, but if you can grab a player like CV, then next year get your SF, you will be in good shape going into the 2010 season which still gives you good shot at #5.
If you start hurting the 2010 cap space by signing a player like CV, the best choice is to use Spurs expiring contracts' to get player(s).
I agree, I am just saying you cannot always get the players you want right away. You cannot make other teams trade with you.
In fact I think trading and getting players now is the best course of action anyways, regardless if the Spurs use the MLE this year or not.
http://twitter.com/RicBucher/status/2249594152
There are some rumors that Ersan Ilyasova will go back with Bucks. Add to that Bucks' luxury tax situation and Villanueva will likely play with another team next year.
Hmmm.....I would not mind CV AT ALL, but if you're going to get him with the MLE, I would rather get a SF (If we don't get one in the draft), or a big man(if there is one available). If not, then we'd have to pull a nice trade out of our asses.
It seems between Gist and the draft, there are more SF's than bigs, so grabbing Charlie would be nice.
Also, is it safe to say the Spurs will not be making any trades until after July first (unless it is very minor)? It sounds like they want to see who shakes loose in FA.
The Spurs have to make a trade, otherwise they'll be paying luxury tax. If they stand pat and sign Villenueva and some other cheap contracts they will be over the $69M Luxury Tax threshold ($69M is the current estimate). This is under the assumption that Finley does not retire/opt out. If Oberto is not dealt before July 1 (deadline for his deal being guaranteed) then it's highly doubtful that we'd package him and Bruce later in the summer.
Interesting...
I'm not sure how I feel about Villanueva, though.
I mean, one part of me says he's just a really talented player who's yet to realize his full potential, and another part of me thinks he's kind of in the Gooden boat.(The talent to entice but a game that doesn't necessarily translate into winning)
I'm not sure the Spurs could really do any better this year, at that position, but I'd be cautious with how much I'd be willing to spend, and for how long.
I think you cannot compare Gooden and CV with regards to talent. CV is much more versatile and has a greater range. It is interesting that Ric would mention the Spurs specifically in his tweet.
I'm not comparing them in depth of talent, just in how it translates.
It's not suprising that the Spurs would have interest, he brings youth and some Horry-like skills offensively, but that's only one end of the court.
Again, you're probably not going to find a better talent out there and the price (due to the economy and the upcoming '10 free-agency) might be too tempting to pass up. (I'm just not convinced he's one of those guys that helps to put you over the top and if he's not one of those guys, I'm not sure how you commit significant salary and years.)
I'm not a fan of Villanueva, but I would take him on this team instantly..while he doesn't put us over the top, there isn't one realistic move that can put us over the top..we're going to need multiple moves, like I've said before..we only need 1 known-name though IMO, and Villanueva would be better than expected..
He's still fairly young too, which means he can still learn and improve..
There would also be no concerns with Pop not playing him, because he plays exactly the way Pop likes the guy next to Duncan, which is all the way to the 3-point line..we were successful most of the year with Bonner as the starter..Villanueva is Bonner with much more talent and swag, with more potential to get better..
Don't know if anyone has seen this, but here is a quick tweet from Ric Bucher Twitter, courtesy of Hoopshype rumor section. Looks like Bucher was answering a question regarding CV and the Bucks current situation.
http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
@PantherU They're in a tough spot. Need to improve, need to save $. Might have to let Villanueva walk. (SA would snap up.)
Ya, Bruno posted that. Like I said, it is interesting that he mentioned the Spurs specifically in the tweet. Hopefully a sign of something to come.
Maybe Bucher knows something we don't
I've got no problem with him on the Spurs, as long as the price is right.
If he doesn't prevent you from getting the right piece/pieces to go along with his addition or prevent you from having the flexibilty in '10 to get the right piece/pieces, it's a no-brainer.
He'd immediately be the second best big on the roster (just like Drew was on arrival) and he wouldn't likely see his court time vanish (unlike Drew did) because of his ability to play the shooting-4 role that only Bonner's left to play.
Would he be an upgrade?
Absolutely.
Would he be the right upgrade?
There's a lot of moving pieces to this puzzle, and I'm just not sure if he's the right (or one of the right) pieces to complete it.
Does anyone here truly believe that CV is better than Gooden? Sure he's got 3-point range, which, as someone said earlier, will make him a Pop favorite. However, I'd be slightly concerned about his rebounding prowess - or maybe the lack thereof. Whatever the case, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Spurs elected to sign him outright, at a reasonable price. Though I admit, I'd like to see Gooden get another crack.
Yes, he has much more talent than Gooden imo. Better ball handler, better shooter with more range and more size. He does not seem to have the low IQ Gooden has.
I don't mind Gooden either..if he's our big, I don't mind it..like I said in the other thread, we need a few things to go our way this year, but it needs to start with signing a legit big to start next to Tim..
my reasoning for choosing Charlie V over Gooden, like I said, is that Pop would have no choice but to play him..with Gooden, we saw him get benched over Bonner, partly due to Matt's ability to stretch out the floor..
Villanueva can stretch out the floor, and he's just obviously a much more talented player than Bonner..
also, he isn't great defensively, but he's better than Gooden(which doesn't say much, but still should be considered)..he's only 25(IIRC), so he also still has room to learn and improve in a good system, which is something he's never had before..
I don't mind getting Villanueva, Gortat, or Gooden..if we get any of those 3 guys, I'll be happy with our big men going into next year..
With CV, the best case scenario is that he works out and averages something like 13-15 ppg and 5-7 rpg. The worse case scenario is he gets packaged mid-season with the likes of Mahinmi, Hairston, Bonner, etc., for something else. One of the biggest problems the Spurs have had for a while now is the complete lack of any tradable assets....
I'm really not a big believer in the "2010 plan" anymore. I just don't think any major stars will be headed to S.A., and besides, with the health of Duncan & Manu looking more fragile with every passing year, I just don't know if it's really practical anymore. I'd rather the Spurs take advantage of the fact other teams that are waiting for the 2010 FA bonanza and therefore less willing to act, and give the Big 3 core a more legitimate chance at another le, i.e., a chance that doesn't include Bonner as a starter.
BTW-- I'm not a Bonner hater. I'm just convinced that he is a respectable bench guy, but not an NBA championship level starter.
Agreed. Any of those players would be a nice step in the right direction for us. CV could actually help us execute the plan that was attempted with Bonner, which is pulling a big out of the paint to respect his shooting.
There's really no argument whether or not Bonner is a starter on a le team..he simply isn't..I do believe the guy can be a good 10 MPG player off the bench though, maybe even more sometimes..rotating between him and Kurt, depending on the matchups, can be very solid for our bench..Bonner was shooting lights out from 3 for most of the year, he was one of the best in the NBA..he obviously can't handle the pressure though, which is why he belongs on the bench, where he could be a good asset..
I also am against the "2010 plan", so I'm on your side there..
I don't believe any rumors involving the Spurs though..we see this every year..other teams and agents use the Spurs to help our their player, it's been like this for a few years..when other teams see that the Spurs are interested, they think it must be good..I love when it doesn't work out for those teams though, like Maggette for instance..
Great point, and one I wholeheartedly agree with.
As long as his contract allows the Spurs and a potential suitor flexibility, it's a win/win.
Again, I agree.
The Spurs' best chance at landing a star will most likely come via trade, and this current climate will probably be their best opportunity.(I just find it hard to believe that the Spurs won't end up with another Rasho-type acquisition, only in about 2-3 spots, after striking out on the most coveted free-agents.)
Charlie is the more talented player and a better fit offensively, but he's just as bad of a defender as Gooden. (Charlie's pretty light in the ass, so he can get pretty abused in the post.)
Drew's nothing great but at least when his heads in the game, (which isn't nearly as often as it should) he's a pretty decent post-defender. He's strong enough to at least hold his ground, for the most part, and make the offender make a shot over the top. I can't really say the same for Charlie.
Charlie could, and should, be a better defender out on the floor than Drew but I'm not sure that he is. I didn't get a chance to see much of Charlie this year to see if having Skiles as his coach improved his defense, so I'd love to hear someones thoughts who actually did, but he definitely has the tools to be able to show on the pick-and-roll and hedge well for a big. Hopefully, he's made some strides in that area.
Gooden's a better rebounder, post-defender, (not saying much) and, at least at this point, a better post-scorer.(not overall scorer)
Charlie, I'd say has the edge everywhere else.
I called on the Spurs to make a run at CV two years ago, but they acquired Kurt Thomas instead. Since then, I've actually cooled on him as a Spur. But for the right price, he be a good get.
...and for that foolish move, the Spurs paid a 1st round draft pick. One which they would so desparately love to have back. I like KT, it's just the Spurs got him waaay to late in his career. CV would've been a better get.
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