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  1. #26
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    How much of an increase in defense expenditure will this bogeyman create?
    Seeing as you can add the world's spending on defense and not even reach what the US spends...

    I expect zero increase. Why doesnt the US have some lackey, rogue state we can prop up right out in the open and give nuclear technology to?

    Oh wait, we have one in the region...just take the leash off, for chrissakes.

  2. #27
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090527/...koreas_nuclear

    N. Korea threatens to attack US, S. Korea warships

    By HYUNG-JIN KIM, Associated Press Writer Hyung-jin Kim, Associated Press Writer – 30 mins ago

    SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea threatened military action Wednesday against U.S. and South Korean warships plying the waters near the Koreas' disputed maritime border, raising the specter of a naval clash just days after the regime's underground nuclear test.

    Pyongyang, reacting angrily to Seoul's decision to join an international program to intercept ships suspected of aiding nuclear proliferation, called the move tantamount to a declaration of war.

    "Now that the South Korean puppets were so ridiculous as to join in the said racket and dare declare a war against compatriots," North Korea is "compelled to take a decisive measure," the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea said in a statement carried by state media.
    The North Korean army called it a violation of the armistice the two Koreas signed in 1953 to end their three-year war, and said it would no longer honor the treaty.

    South Korea's military said Wednesday it was prepared to "respond sternly" to any North Korean provocation.

    North Korea's latest belligerence comes as the U.N. Security Council debates how to punish the regime for testing a nuclear bomb Monday in what President Barack Obama called a "blatant violation" of international law.

    Ambassadors from the five permanent veto-wielding council members — the United States, Russia, China, Britain and France — as well as Japan and South Korea were working out the details of a new resolution.
    The success of any new sanctions would depend on how aggressively China, one of North Korea's only allies, implements them.
    "It's not going too far to say that China holds the keys on sanctions," said Kim Sung-han, an international relations professor at Seoul's Korea University.

    South Korea, divided from the North by a heavily fortified border, had responded to the nuclear test by joining the Proliferation Security Initiative, a U.S.-led network of nations seeking to stop ships from transporting the materials used in nuclear bombs.
    Seoul previously resisted joining the PSI in favor of seeking reconciliation with Pyongyang, but pushed those efforts aside Monday after the nuclear test in the northeast.

    North Korea warned Wednesday that any attempt to stop, board or inspect its ships would cons ute a "grave violation."
    The regime also said it could no longer promise the safety of U.S. and South Korean warships and civilian vessels in the waters near the Korea's western maritime border.

    "They should bear in mind that the (North) has tremendous military muscle and its own method of strike able to conquer any targets in its vicinity at one stroke or hit the U.S. on the raw, if necessary," the army said in a statement carried by state media.

    The maritime border has long been a flashpoint between the two Koreas. North Korea disputes the line unilaterally drawn by the United Nations at the end of the Koreas' three-year war in 1953, and has demanded it be redrawn further south.

    The truce signed in 1953 and subsequent military agreements call for both sides to refrain from warfare, but doesn't cover the waters off the west coast.

    North Korea has used the maritime border dispute to provoke two deadly naval skirmishes — in 1999 and 2002.

    On Wednesday, the regime promised "unimaginable and merciless punishment" for anyone daring to challenge its ships.
    Pyongyang also reportedly restarted its weapons-grade nuclear plant, South Korean media said.

    The Chosun Ilbo newspaper said U.S. spy satellites detected signs of steam at the North's Yongbyon nuclear complex, an indication it may have started reprocessing nuclear fuel. The report, which could not be confirmed, quoted an unidentified government official. South Korea's Yonhap news agency also carried a similar report.
    The move would be a major setback for efforts aimed at getting North Korea to disarm.

    North Korea had stopped reprocessing fuel rods as part of an international deal. In 2007, it agreed to disable the Yongbyon reactor in exchange for aid and demolished a cooling tower at the complex.

    The North has about 8,000 spent fuel rods which, if reprocessed, could allow it to harvest 13 to 18 pounds (six to eight kilograms) of plutonium — enough to make at least one nuclear bomb, experts said. North Korea is believed to have enough plutonium for at least a half dozen atomic bombs.

    Further ratcheting up tensions, North Korea test-fired five short-range missiles over the past two days, South Korean officials confirmed.
    Russia's foreign minister said world powers must be firm with North Korea but take care to avoid inflaming tensions further.

    The world "must not rush to punish North Korea just for punishment's sake," Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said, adding that Russia wants a Security Council resolution that will help restart stalled six-nation talks over North Korea's nuclear programs and will not provoke Pyongyang into even more aggressive activity.

    South Korean President Lee Myung-bak urged officials to "remain calm" in the face of North Korean threats, said Lee Dong-kwan, his spokesman.
    Pyongyang isn't afraid of any repercussions for its actions, a North Korean newspaper, the Minju Joson, said Wednesday.

    "It is a laughable delusion for the United States to think that it can get us to kneel with sanctions," it said in an editorial. "We've been living under U.S. sanctions for decades, but have firmly safeguarded our ideology and system while moving our achievements forward. The U.S. sanctions policy toward North Korea is like striking a rock with a rotten egg."
    ___ Associated Press writer Steve Gutterman in Moscow and Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations contributed to this report.

  3. #28
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    I wonder. Do liberals still want us to stop building the Missile Defense System?

  4. #29
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    It would be nice if they stopped faking the star wars tests.

    We understand it's a difficult system to create -- no need to lie about the progress.

  5. #30
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    It would be nice if they stopped faking the star wars tests.

    We understand it's a difficult system to create -- no need to lie about the progress.
    I'm sorry your are a conspiracy theorist in faking results.

    It was an impossible system to achieve when it was first conceived. Very practical now with modern CPU's, tracking systems, etc. We were lucky to have what, 8 mhz 8 bit processors then, right? Now we are in the GHZ ranges, and nuclear hardened chips. State of the art is probable 50,000 times faster when comparing MFLOPs, or better.

  6. #31
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    No, the results were very much faked in the past.

    Last I heard, they were having trouble even making good target rockets. Maybe we should buy a few from North Korea.

  7. #32
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    No, the results were very much faked in the past.

    Last I heard, they were having trouble even making good target rockets. Maybe we should buy a few from North Korea.
    OK, all I could find was that one system made by TRW had falsified data. What about the other, how many dozens of systems? How many other contractors?

    Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, etc.

    Link please.

  8. #33
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Well there was at least one tests in which the target had a homing beacon on it so the missile wouldn't miss it. I remember that quite clearly. Now our target missiles fail so often we can't even get to the point of actually testing the system satisfactorily.

  9. #34
    Believe. FaithInOne's Avatar
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    That's odd. Everything is suppose to work on the first attempt and be easy.

  10. #35
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    When they faked the test it did.

    Go figure.

  11. #36
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    everytime they need a handout (food, money, medical aid etc...) they do something like this to attract attention.

    this is their only recourse to survival, they know if they act upon their 'nuclear ambitions' they will get squashed like a bug and no one will give them anymore handouts.

    its all about the handouts, they make no money otherwise.

  12. #37
    A VERY BAD man
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    When they faked the test it did.

    Go figure.
    The current system being depolyed in Poland shoots down missiles while in boost phase. That's why it has to be in eastern Europe. The star wars hoax was a space based system that supposedly shot down missiles while in the ballistic phase of lower orbit with 'lasers'.


  13. #38
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    We're going to knock out North Korean missiles headed over the Pacific with missiles from Poland?

    The rigged beacon test was conducted in 2001 using the system you described.

    Nice pic though.

  14. #39
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    so is the space war system inferrior to chinas system that it shot down one of its satellites last year?

    hey can you guys also post links of the failed test....i would like to read further into that since you clowns are basing one in australia also....

  15. #40
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Yeah, I muddied the waters using the star wars moniker.

    Apologies.

  16. #41
    A VERY BAD man
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    We're going to knock out North Korean missiles headed over the Pacific with missiles from Poland?
    Nope. That only deals with Russian missiles. There was a platform built in the northern pacific for missile defense. I don't know what it's status is, but what China and N. Korea or anyone in the pacific can throw at us is nothing compared to the Russians. I think the Chinese can only reach the western US as is and the accuracy is questionable. Between us, the French, the Brits...we can deliver a lot of nuclear weapons anywhere on the globe, on target and on time, like UPS.

  17. #42
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    No, the results were very much faked in the past.

    Last I heard, they were having trouble even making good target rockets. Maybe we should buy a few from North Korea.
    So numerous examples of what you're talking about shouldn't be hard for you to find and post up.

  18. #43
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    So numerous examples of what you're talking about shouldn't be hard for you to find and post up.
    The rigged missile defense test

    The Latest Star Wars Woes: Launching Fake Targets

    You're welcome.

  19. #44
    uups stups! Cant_Be_Faded's Avatar
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    Egh. I would be so pro-defense shield if that actually worked.

  20. #45
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    so what is the problem with the system? compared to the system in fighter jets locking onto its enemy and firing the missile with a direct hit? wouldnt it be the same system or its a revamp?

  21. #46
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    The first link is an editorial, where someone comes to the conclusion that the results are being faked.

    I found this quote on PBSabout those same tests. There appears to be no attempt to hide the fact that there was a GPS in the target, and by the July test they actually weren't relying on the GPS for the entire test.

    The October test did validate the hit-to-kill concept itself, but not the overall viability of the NMD system. This is because the test was highly controlled and unrealistic. For example, in order to ensure that the interceptor and incoming missile would collide, a beacon linking the target missile to the Global Positioning Satellite (GPs) network was used to help guide the interceptor in the midcourse.

    At the time of the October test, three more flight intercept tests were planned, each one more complicated than the last in order to provide more and more realistic criteria. Under the original plans, all three would have been conducted successfully by now. That has not happened. The two tests following the October 1999 test failed. The next one in the series was delayed for months but was conducted on July 14, 2001, again successfully demonstrating hit-to-kill -- although other aspects of the test were problematic, and an active radar beacon on the target was used (instead of GPS) to help guide the interceptor during an early portion of its flight.
    The second link you obviously didn't even read because the "fake targets" they are referring to are the practice targets, as in "fake Russian missile". It has nothing to do with falsifying results.

    You're welcome.

  22. #47
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    so what is the problem with the system? compared to the system in fighter jets locking onto its enemy and firing the missile with a direct hit? wouldnt it be the same system or its a revamp?
    It's complicated, it's expensive, it's never been done before and it's being developed by the government. Aside from that, everything's fine. I've certainly got no problem with everyone watching what they're doing. It's my tax money too.

  23. #48
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Well there was at least one tests in which the target had a homing beacon on it so the missile wouldn't miss it. I remember that quite clearly. Now our target missiles fail so often we can't even get to the point of actually testing the system satisfactorily.
    Link please...

  24. #49
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Wow...

    Two examples out of how many designs?

    Now the GPS would be to know where the target is, for the camera to track the kill. not to hit it with the defense missile. A GPS is only so accurate, especially circa 2001.

    As for the rockets, not sure.

    Also keep in mind, you learn from failures. We never have a 100% record in research and development. I have four years of experience in that field myself.

  25. #50
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Wow...

    Two examples out of how many designs?

    Now the GPS would be to know where the target is, for the camera to track the kill. not to hit it with the defense missile. A GPS is only so accurate, especially circa 2001.

    As for the rockets, not sure.

    Also keep in mind, you learn from failures. We never have a 100% record in research and development. I have four years of experience in that field myself.
    Please read the links. There are no examples provided. In fact, do you even bother to read the threads? Look four posts above you.

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