Worst Case Scenario

[LnGrrrR]

Just wondering, do you think that KSM and the PFC are both on equal ground?

I also like how they decided that the waterboarding and etc is the excuse to use why the Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc can and will cut off anyone's head. This isnt the first time that the US has ever "tortured", US soldiers in WWII killed Germans and Japanese instead of taking them prisoner, anyone doubt that servicemen in Korea and Vietnam didnt commit any crimes against POW's? Of course not, it was only until Bush came into office and decided to try to protect the US that all of a sudden because some idiots decided to photograph what they did that we've lost the moral high ground and our people deserve to get their heads cut off.

If you note in my original OP, I said that those who respond that the soldier should be protected by the Geneva Conventions are correct.

I of course don't think he deserves to have his head cut off. But like you said, some morons photographed it, and those pictures WILL be used as justification for this type of crap.

So what is the response for some Americans? "Well, if they're going to do X, we'll do X too!" Which merely reinforces the hypocrisy of Americans portraying themselves as the good guys.

We need to be actually BE the good guys, and walk the walk. People saying we should resort to these tactics are only helping the Taliban and Al Qaeda recruit.

[sam1617]

We can only control our own actions. I don't know if its right to use torture to save lives, I don't have the wisdom to say so, and I think its an issue that Man has struggled with forever. I will say though, that the actions of our enemies should not force us into actions that we can't live with. If we decide torture is ok in certain situations, it should be based purely on the benefits vs cost, not on the fact that the enemy does it.

[ElNono]

To be fair, I haven't deployed to a 'combat' zone. But Abu Ghraib was not just an example of 'things happening'. There's a line, and they obviously crossed it.

Do these things happen? Yeah, they might. But the fact that it did without being squashed quickly, to the point where these guys thought they could TAKE PICTURES of it and it was all good, gives us a black eye everywhere internationally.

As far as the commanding officer being demoted, that is a good thing. However, I'm inclined to believe that these methods were ok'd at higher levels, given some of the memos that have come out. (Don't have them ready at this moment: I'll try to look for them.)

You mean you pretend professional forces paid to act in a professional manner to actually be professional? Imagine that!

[Extra Stout]

The fallacy behind the article is the assumption that the Taliban's decision whether to torture the American soldier is dependent upon how the U.S. treats soldiers. The assertion made is that because of American behavior at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, we can expect the U.S. soldier to be tortured.

That assumption is not proven. It can be disproven by evidence of the Taliban torturing prisoners prior to the revelations of prisoner treatment at U.S. facilities.

[LnGrrrR]

The fallacy behind the article is the assumption that the Taliban's decision whether to torture the American soldier is dependent upon how the U.S. treats soldiers. The assertion made is that because of American behavior at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, we can expect the U.S. soldier to be tortured.

That assumption is not proven. It can be disproven by evidence of the Taliban torturing prisoners prior to the revelations of prisoner treatment at U.S. facilities.

I think that the assumption made is not that Taliban won't abide to rules due to US actions. I read that as understood... they're the bad guys.

However, by doing 'bad things' ourselves, our moral position is lowered, and we are not seen by the majority of the world as 'good guys'. As such, we can not call them out in the international community from a position of strength (ie moral superiority) without looking hypocritical.

My understanding of it, anyways.

[boutons_deux]

dubya already "threatened" bad guys about torturing US prisoners, AFTER US abuses of bad guys were exposed.

Good old U$A, we're better than everybody. One standard for USA, another standard for Rest of World. Do as we say, not as we do, OR ING ELSE. We'll bomb your country back to rubble.

USA will show how run a justifiable war from the moral high ground and how to run capitalism's financial system!