How is LA better than last year?

[Culburn369]

Odom wanted to play with Artest. That was his dream, his want above all others. Phil, Kobe & Magic signed off on it, and Buss granted Odom his dream, his want. That's the trade kicker. Bucking convention wisdom-not everything is monetarily based, not in this instance anyways.

Buss is Odom's hero, and Odom, because of his '09 Playoff performance is the hero's hero.

[cobbler]

No way Artest is better than Ariza...

I can't think of anything where Artest would be better than Ariza. Maybe only in certain defensive matchups. But in other 99 categories Ariza is a better player and a teammate.

And yes... Fisher will be a year older. If Brown can step up it maybe won't hurt them that much.

The Lakers don't need scoring. What was everyone saying last year? The Lakers have all the talent to win, they just arent tough enough.

Artest makes the Lakers tougher. And yses, he is better than Ariza. Artest has proven himself over many years playing for several teams with various levels of talent. Ariza has one good half of a year for a talented Lakers team. Let's see how that plays out over the next few years.

Ariza defense came from off ball steals and contesting the passing lanes. Kobe has been playing that role more and more as he ages. Artest is more a man to man defender and can now take on the toughest opponent and allow Kobe more roaming and give him the rest required. Artest's style of defense over Ariza's makes the team tougher inside.

I would love to see the stats you can provide in the "other 99" catagories that show Ariza is better.

[Culburn369]

Gasol got tougher. The improvement in Gasol/'08 Finals & Gasol/'09 Finals is startingly. He played Howard splendidly, never retreated, never crapped the bed like he did against Boston a year earlier. He'll continue to improve defensively as the confidence builds. He'll finally get to a point where his reliance, his crutch, his out on the officiating will cease.

[23LeBronJames23]

They wont be better cause team depends on kobe and as you can see kobe is getting older and worser...

[vander]

moved to the NBA forum? Rabble Rabble!

[cobbler]

They wont be better cause team depends on kobe and as you can see kobe is getting older and worser...

Worser?

[23LeBronJames23]

Worser?

yes

[Amaso]

No way Artest is better than Ariza...

I can't think of anything where Artest would be better than Ariza. Maybe only in certain defensive matchups. But in other 99 categories Ariza is a better player and a teammate.

lol, just look at the contenders and who their wing scorers are:

Paul Pierce - Ron guards him better than Ariza could
Ray Allen - Ariza doesn't guard him anyway, its usually Fisher (or Brown with Ariza gone) because you don't need size to guard Ray Allen
Lebron James - Artest obviously
Tony Parker - Ariza actually guards Parker well, and Artest wouldn't have the footspeed to keep Parker in front of him
Carmelo Anthony - Artest obviously
Dirk Nowitzki - I didn't know if I should even consider the Mavs as contenders but since I added the Nuggets I guess I can, or if Nowitzki would even be guarded by Artest. But Artest would guard Nowitzki better than Ariza.

Yeah, Ariza is a really good defender, and he can somewhat hold his own against most of the players above, but the truth of the matter is Artest gaurds Paul Pierce and Lebron James really well which are probably the Lakers 2 biggest compe ors.

[Spurs_210]

They wont be better cause team depends on kobe and as you can see kobe is getting older and worser...

The Cavs won't either cause Mike Brown is their head coach and a overrated SG runs the point.

[cobbler]

yes

Sorry, I don't have my Cleveland urban slang dictionary handy.

[The Franchise]

Only on SpursTalk is a Laker team that kept the same core and added Artest worse than they were last season. You guys will rationalize anything.

Trust me, by Jan. it will start to seem a lot less irrational to you as well.

[La Peace]

They arent an old team. They now know what it takes to win it all. They will be improved within themselves. Artest >>>>> Ariza.

[Medvedenko]

How are they not better.......champion experience is the key. Plus adding a hungry vet in Artest with a healthy Bynum will put them in the running again.

[Allanon]

Bynum has improved every year so far, no reason to think he's done.

Artest is much more talented than Ariza.

As Lamar Odom, Bynum and Pau play together more, they're learning how to play more effectively as a unit. The Lakers frontcourt should be alot better this year.

Maybe not individually, but the Lakers as a team should be a much improved defensive team this year.

As for losing a step, Jordan didn't win his last ring until he was something like 35 years old..and he was probably still the best player in the game at that age. Kareem Abdul Jabbar played until he was like 40 years old.

[Spurs_210]

As a Spurs fan you should know after winning le they improved in the know how to win. Countless times the fact the Spurs know how win has help overcome very tough odds. Now the Lakers are a tougher team as they have a le under their belt. I'll hold my opinion on Bynum until I see him healthy all year and live up to the hype.

[TheMACHINE]

Lakers got better and crazier. Spurs got better and gayer. WCF matchup right there!

[Findog]

You can make an argument that Artest is better than Ariza or vice versa. Either way, Lakers are favorites to repeat. We'll see.

[KSeal]

Ariza was probably my favorite Laker last year, I'm going to miss him. I just hope Ron fits in and doesn't completely destroy the triangle, which could very likely happen. If he will buy into whatever role PJ gives him, like he has said he will, then I think everything will be fine. Don't know if the Lakers are really a better team from last year even if Ron does buy into his role, they're definitely a tougher team with Ron, I don't think anyone can question that.

[TheProfessor]

Ariza was probably my favorite Laker last year, I'm going to miss him. I just hope Ron fits in and doesn't completely destroy the triangle, which could very likely happen. If he will buy into whatever role PJ gives him, like he has said he will, then I think everything will be fine. Don't know if the Lakers are really a better team from last year even if Ron does buy into his role, they're definitely a tougher team with Ron, I don't think anyone can question that.

I think this is about right. Ariza had great defensive versatility and was on the upswing of his career, whereas Artest has lost a step, especially against quicker perimeter players. Ariza didn't need the ball and fit well in the triangle, while Artest breaks plays regularly and hoists ill-advised jumpshots at a low percentage. And they've just given a crazy guy his last big contract, so there's no financial incentive to stay in line if things go south. I understand the rationale to going after a player like Artest at that price, but Ariza was an exceptional fit for the Lakers, with far less risk.

[phyzik]

just stating facts.

Lakers got rid of a 6'8" 24yr old who had these numbers.

PPG 11.3 RPG 4.20 APG 2.3 EFF + 12.96

Lakers replaced him with a 6'7" 30yr old (Come November) verifiable nut case who had these numbers.

PPG 15.6 RPG 4.30 APG 4.2 EFF + 12.85


Its practically a wash. A lateral move. This Didnt make them any better or any worse unless you want to nitpick and look at age and the mental issues. Both sides (laker and Spur homers) are hoping for way to much from Ron Artest to the Lakers. Buss went this route simply for the money savings.

[Culburn369]

Hey, dummies!!!!!!!!!

If we kept Ariza---we weren't going to get Artest. And if we didn't get Artest, we ran a distinct risk of losing Odom.

o!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[phyzik]

Hey, dummies!!!!!!!!!

If we kept Ariza---we weren't going to get Artest. And if we didn't get Artest, we ran a distinct risk of losing Odom.

o!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

exactly, as much of an asshole troll you are, thats correct. It was strictly a money savings move.

[Culburn369]

exactly

Danka, phy.

[Laker-fan-in-SanAnto]

I thought that too, but the more I talk to my friend who is a Rockets fan (who midway through the season wanted Artest gone) the more I think there is less of a gap in who is better and even some question as to who is better.

On paper I would much rather have Artest. he shot 40% from 3 point land last season and averaged close to 20 ppg. But my friend seems to think that he would have prefered him traded for someone less of a nut job. Artest supposedly broke plays ALL the time and was not the athlete/defender he was a couple years ago.

I casually follow the Rockets because they are in the Spurs division, but my friend watches the Rockets 60+ times a year and a handful of times in person so I trust his opinion over mine on the topic.

Ask your friends this, Who was Artest playing for? The Rockets. Who is Artest going to play for? The defending champions Lakers. I hope that keeps in check. He has wanted to be a Laker for sometime and he finally got to be one. He has also wanted a ring for quite sometime. He improved his chances.

[SpursDynasty]

Someone explain how Artest > Ariza other than it's sugarcoating the worst move of the offseason in the NBA?

Ron Artest in 2009 Playoffs: 39.4% FG%, 27.7% 3-pt FG%, 4.3 RPG in the playoffs
Trevor Ariza in 2009 Playoffs: 49.7% FG%, 47.6 3-pt FG%, 4.2 RPG in the playoffs