Racism and the NBA age limit

[MI21]

Musicians, actors, every other entertainment job you can name have no age limit.

Strippers?

[kukjavel]

"You don't hear about it in baseball or hockey. To say you have to be 20, 21 to get in the league, it's uncons utional. If I can go to the U.S. Army and fight the war at 18 why can't you play basketball for 48 minutes?" O'Neal said.

I hate it when people think it's their right to play in the NBA or in any other league (like that guy wanted to do in the NFL sorry I forgot his name). Athletes now-a-days seem to take this as more of a right that a privelage. Maybe some time in college will teach them that the cons ution doesn't say you have a right to play in the NBA or NFL for millions of dollars. I just wanted to say that. I'm new here so don't blast me please. Oh yeah I also hate it when someone compares sports to fighting in a war. I've never heard a soldier come back from war and say "hey it felt like I just played basketball for a year and a half."

[timvp]

An age limit makes no sense for the NBA. Do you think Tony Parker would be better off right now as a senior in college somewhere?

Of course not. The college game would have made him a worse pro player.

The way the game is played in college and the way the game is played in the NBA is too different. Players become good at skills that they'll never use in the NBA in college. At least if you are sitting on an NBA team's injured list for a couple seasons, you get to learn the NBA life and practice against NBA players.

The way to solve this problem is to have a minor leagues -- not an age limit.

[ShoogarBear]

yeah, but the age limits are still set, taking into account certain costs and benefits.

why be 18 just to serve alcohol? the drinking age isnt 18, how does that make sense? the government just thought it was the best policy

You can go get killed for the government at 18, but you can't get paid to play basketball? That makes sense.

Anyway, I edited my original response to this:

Not true at all

Musicians, actors, every other entertainment job you can name have no age limit.

Basketball is an entertainment business. Why limit the age for it when you don't limit it for other entertainment jobs?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You can go get killed for the government at 18, but you can't get paid to play basketball? That makes sense.

Anyway, I edited my original response to this:


Basketball is an entertainment business. Why limit the age for it when you don't limit it for other entertainment jobs?

Well someone here already said you shouldn't compare fighting in a war to playing a sport. I'll just assume you read that.

And then someone also mentioned strippers as an entertainment job with an age limit. I'll assume you read that now too.

[ShoogarBear]

Well i would not agree on golf because i dont consider golf a sport.

It's a game.

Okay, this argument falls off the edge.

It's okay to not have an age limit for golf because it's a game, not a sport?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

An age limit makes no sense for the NBA. Do you think Tony Parker would be better off right now as a senior in college somewhere?

Of course not. The college game would have made him a worse pro player.

The way the game is played in college and the way the game is played in the NBA is too different. Players become good at skills that they'll never use in the NBA in college. At least if you are sitting on an NBA team's injured list for a couple seasons, you get to learn the NBA life and practice against NBA players.

The way to solve this problem is to have a minor leagues -- not an age limit.

I dont think Parker would have necessarily became a worse pro-player. I know the games are played differently, but they're still not different games. They still involve the same core concepts and skills.

The minor league idea is a good one, but I still think it should come with more strict rules about high schoolers, because nothing changes the fact that NBA skill level is becoming watered down.

I saw a behind the lines episode on FOXSW last night about 3 point shooting. Anyone catch it? They had veterans, coaches, and Kerr interviewed. Just about every person interviewed (except Kyle Korver) said that the entire approach to a basic fundamental skill of bball (long distance shooting) is totally ass backwards today cuz kids don't know whats up.

thats just an example im using.

These kids need more time to work on their games. The minor league with no age limit could serve for the same goal. The high schoolers that make it really big in the NBA are the freakishly awesome athletes. I think we've just had a spurt of those the past 2 or 3 years, but these spurts dont last forever.

And still, what would 2 years from professional ball do to hurt guys like lebron and amare? What negative effects could come from this?

[ShoogarBear]

Well someone here already said you shouldn't compare fighting in a war to playing a sport. I'll just assume you read that.

And what they actually said was pretty dumb; I wouldn't recommend you it that for your argument:

Oh yeah I also hate it when someone compares sports to fighting in a war. I've never heard a soldier come back from war and say "hey it felt like I just played basketball for a year and a half."

War is worse than basketball, therefore we should restrict access to basketball? WTF kind of logic is that?

And then someone also mentioned strippers as an entertainment job with an age limit. I'll assume you read that now too.

So that's the sum total of your argument? Basketball = strippers? But golf is a game, therefore it's okay for 17 and 18 year olds to be pro?

You'd do better to come up with some points of your own.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

you said all entertainment occupations dont have age limits
someone said strippers
that equals you being wrong

we're talking about nba basketball, a sport
not golf, a game
even if we keep golf a sport
we're talking nba basketball, not golf
get it?

[MI21]

And then someone also mentioned strippers as an entertainment job with an age limit. I'll assume you read that now too.

I was just joking with ShoogarBear. I respect his opinion and agree 100% with him. Don't try and use my joke as reasoning for your argument, because using it and actually thinking people will agree with you and think it is a valid point is laughable.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

but it is a valid point because strippers are entertainers and there is an age limit and he said "every other entertainment job"

what is so hard to understand about that

the whole point is not every entertainment job is free of age limits

[PM5K]

Gee Jermaine, you think it might have something to do with you averaging four points per game your first four seasons (those years that you would have been in college)?

Or maybe the disaster that is Kwame Brown, or a number of other all-stars that put up low numbers their first few years, why water down the NBA with raw talent when you can make the college game better and prepare these guys to play real basketball in the NBA....

[Cant_Be_Faded]

or can girls be stippers at age 10 now

i guess that is laughable because they can be stippers at age 10

[timvp]

I dont think Parker would have necessarily became a worse pro-player. I know the games are played differently, but they're still not different games. They still involve the same core concepts and skills.

Not exactly, because college stars don't always translate to the NBA. You could be one of the best players in the country (Trajon Langdon, Ed O'Bannon, Chris Carawell, etc, etc) and have no NBA potential. It's a totally different game. The college game is more about zone defense and shooting over those zone. The NBA game is more about individual talent.

The minor league idea is a good one, but I still think it should come with more strict rules about high schoolers, because nothing changes the fact that NBA skill level is becoming watered down.

I doubt that players like LeBron, Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire are doing anything to water down the NBA's talent.

I saw a behind the lines episode on FOXSW last night about 3 point shooting. Anyone catch it? They had veterans, coaches, and Kerr interviewed. Just about every person interviewed (except Kyle Korver) said that the entire approach to a basic fundamental skill of bball (long distance shooting) is totally ass backwards today cuz kids don't know whats up.

thats just an example im using.

The shooters in today's game are better than any shooters in any era. Look at the stats. Never was it in the NBA that teams could put five three-point threats on the court at the same time. Today, NBA teams often can.

These kids need more time to work on their games. The minor league with no age limit could serve for the same goal. The high schoolers that make it really big in the NBA are the freakishly awesome athletes. I think we've just had a spurt of those the past 2 or 3 years, but these spurts dont last forever.

It's just the beginning. The MJ era started the most popular time for the NBA. Kids are just now in the age group that they grew up in the environment that basketball is the most highly-respected sport.

And still, what would 2 years from professional ball do to hurt guys like lebron and amare? What negative effects could come from this?

Imagine this:

LeBron goes to North Carolina for two years and the University and the NCAA make hundreds and hundreds of million dollars off of LeBron James averaging a triple double. Everyone has an NC LeBron jersey. The NCAA sells its television rights for double the previous amount.

LeBron blows out his knee. He never had an NBA career and the millions of dollars he would have had are now in other people's hands.

I'd call that a negative effect.

[ShoogarBear]

you said all entertainment occupations dont have age limits
someone said strippers
that equals you being wrong

we're talking about nba basketball, a sport
not golf, a game
even if we keep golf a sport
we're talking nba basketball, not golf
get it?

Got it.

We should have an age limit because it's NBA basketball.

If it was war or golf, then no age limit necessary.

Crystal clear.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Not exactly, but college starts don't always translate to the NBA. You could be one of the best players in the country (Trajon Langdon, Ed O'Bannon, Chris Carawell, etc, etc) and have no NBA potential. It's a totally different game. The college game is more about zone defense and shooting over those zone. The NBA game is more about individual talent.



I doubt that players like LeBron, Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire are doing anything to water down the NBA's talent.



The shooters in today's game are better than any shooters in any era. Look at the stats. Never was it in the NBA that teams could put five three-point threats on the court at the same time. Today, NBA teams often can.



It's just the beginning. The MJ era started the most popular time for the NBA. Kids are just now in the age group that they grew up in the environment that basketball is the most highly-respected sport.



Imagine this:

LeBron goes to North Carolina for two years and the University and the NCAA make hundreds and hundreds of million dollars off of LeBron James averaging a triple double. Everyone has an NC LeBron jersey. The NCAA sells its television rights for double the previous amount.

LeBron blows out his knee. He never had an NBA career and the millions of dollars he would have had are now in other people's hands.

I'd call that a negative effect.

Okay....well...
For every lebron, theres 2 kwames out there. You just dont know all their names cuz their not lebron.

And youre right/wrong about shooting. They actually showed statistics on that show last night, and although three points made are up as you say, the percentages are wayyyyy down for the average player, as well as overall scoring.
Plus, the decrease in scoring coincided with the increase in 3 points attempted. (since the nba three point line till this season)

And only the suns and sonics can truely pull that 5 person three point threat. Not every team has that.

And injuries are the only thing that can be said negative, i admitted that earlier, so maybe i shoulda been more precise.

But, i just believe if you have the talent in you, you're going to make it in the NBA regardless. If you learn how to bust zones in college, then more power to you, because we see more zones in today's NBA.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Got it.

We should have an age limit because it's NBA basketball.

If it was war or golf, then no age limit necessary.

Crystal clear.

Do i have to type this out in symbolic logic to you or are you just that stupid?

you were the first to say 'all entertaineres have no age limit'

and all im saying is youre wrong by saying that.

whether age limits in the nba is good or bad is still up in the air, hence this topic

[ShoogarBear]

Anyone who thinks a comparison of professional athletes to strippers is valid should be careful about throwing around the term "stupid".

[Cant_Be_Faded]

as opposed to comparing nba players to singers and actors?

[Kori Ellis]

Please stop the petty bull and go back to the topic.

[ShoogarBear]

Pretty funny that you have yet to come up with an argument of your own in this particular track. You could only latch onto a tongue-in-cheek one-liner by somebody who disagrees with you.

For the record, I would like to see more players stay in school and get more experience. However, that has to be voluntary on their part. To legislate it is about the most un-American thing I can think of.

Maybe NBA players aren't real enough 'muricans for you.

[Mr. Body]

OK... Kwame Brown. He didn't pan out. So what? Neither did Olowokandi. Thing is, he got paid, and that's entirely to the point. Not every player pans out, college or otherwise. Who really gets killed are the poor high schoolers who some agent gets his mitts on and then doesn't get drafted. But there are con men in every field of human endeavor.

There are two things operating here:

1) The league was watered-down for a while, and now seems to be on an up-swing. I credit Bill Simmons for getting me to think about this. A period in the early to mid-80s, there were some incredibly strong drafts, with Magic and Bird to Olajuwon to Robinson coming into the league. A period after that, from the late-80s into the 90s, perhaps up to Shaq's draft, there were some incredibly weak drafts. Not a lot of talent was coming into the league. You got your Derrick Colemans and secondary talents like Sean Elliott and Glen Rice being the top few draft picks every year. When these players started hitting their prime, the older players were retiring. The younger players couldn't fill the gap. By the time MJ retired, the league was trying to market Jerry Stackhouse, Stephon Marbury, Allan Houston, those kinds of players, as the next big things. Which wasn't happening. Duncan's draft was pretty shallow, but after that, you started having a steady inflow of new talent, which is now paying off in a big way, with the LeBron-Wade-Mello draft being huge.

The league is still fighting the old image of bad basketball. It will take a little time.

2) Race. There is undeniably a racial aspect to all this. Nobody cares if tennis players do or do not go to college, or do or do not make millions of dollars, or do or do not bang tons of groupies. Nobody cares about baseball players or hockey players or, really, football players, unless they try to murder somebody. Basketball simply holds out over all other sports in the visibility of its stars - they don't wear helmets or hats, and their games depend on a great deal of personal expertise. America will always have an issue with young black males - there is not a more closely examined, closely watched, and closely emulated group of people in the world. We fret about them not going to college, we fret about them making millions of dollars. We fret about their image, about the images they're not making. We get bothered when they make a lot of money doing the things we wish we could do.

All this is unfair. These kids should be given the chance to earn some money for themselves and their families. Conversely, of course, the league should be concerned about a watered-down league (which, as above, is getting better). What I see from Hunter, the rep for the Players' Union, and from Stern, really has me hopeful, that once again the NBA will be the benchmark for all other major sporting leagues. Expanding the NBDL in a way that allows talent to grow within its nurturing confines and without completely ignoring the fact that a large proportion of the best players in the NBA today came straight out of college, is quite a feat, and they should be commended for tackling the issue in this manner.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think players should work on their games more before taking up space on an NBA roster. Alot of these guys are drafted on potential alone. It does pay off. Sometimes it doesnt. If we wait, the chances of it paying off when they arrive increase, unless they all have career ending injuries.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yeah theres definatly racial aspects in this. But for some there isnt. All i care about is the game, not a rich black guy. My parents taught me the value of an education, so i listed that is a reason people should go to school.
But i would be called a liar if i said i wouldn't take the money if i were a high school prospect.
But i'm not a prospect, im a fan...
So i look at this mostly from the standpoint of whether it will benefit or hurt the league. I think a minor league would help as well.

[ShoogarBear]

I agree almost entirely with Mr. Body's eloquent post except for one point.

"We" don't really give two s about whether these guys get an education or not.

If "we" did, then we'd so something about the NCAA and the abject hypocrisy of their peanuts-for-the-players-while-Krzyzewski-does-American-Express-commercials
philosophy.