Harvey: Not Like Mike, Robinson Wins

[exstatic]

I don't see it as a criticism to say Dave didn't burn for the game like MJ. I think it's an observation. I also think it's true. There's also nothing wrong with that. David had other priorities in his life. To get from where he was, which I will call the 98th percentile, up to the very top, which I will call the 99.9th percentile, would have required that he sacrifice everything else in his life. He chose to have other interests, develop lifelong friendships with team mates, and live a complete life. MJ had championships, but I don't think he had any of those other things. His life has pretty much been a series of train wrecks since he retired from b-ball. In fact, that ill fated two years with the Wiz may have been an effort to stall his HOF induction. It's kind of sad that MJ isn't yet 50, and his life is essentially over. He's still walking around and breathing, but the only thing he has ever loved, playing hoops at the highest level and being the best player, will be forever denied him now. He'll do stuff, like gambling, making bad front office decisions, etc., but what he's really doing is counting the heartbeats to his death.

[callo1]

Never was a Jordan fan for all the very same reasons that came out in his speech last night. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME and ME.

Can't argue with his talent, but the at ude always sucked IMHO. And no, I don't subscribe to that idea that his at ude was necessary to make him great.

He almost sounded insecure to me. "Don't laugh" or I will come back and play at 46 years of age. Dude, move on.

DRob is sooo much more well grounded in life. Yeah Jordan has more money, but they both have all they need and DRob is actually happy, so I would say he is in a much better position than Jordan.

From how he sounded last night, Jordan may end up like Howard Hughes in the near future.

[callo1]

I, too, have always thought the criticism Dave received about his at ude toward basketball was way off-base. Critics acted as though he didn't want to win or that he didn't have a passion for basketball, simply because he never allowed himself to be defined solely by the game.

That is because passion defined by most people now days means thumping your chest and being a camera by performing pre-game rituals like tossing chalk all over everyone near the first row, hence the belief that most people have that KG has more "passion" than Timmy.

Wow, just to think, if Timmy had KG's "passion" then he could have had at least three more rings....come on TD...damn you.

[Killakobe81]

How could Ice, a member of the West team, have anything to do with the freeze-out of Jordan other than doing his job and playing D?

Agreed. Same with Magic. Mj was great but has some major issues. his peech sucked compared to the others

[DMX7]

He just said that in the moment. MJ's a smart guy who lets his emotions get the best of him sometimes. He would have been good at something if there was not basketball.

[Drachen]

It just seems like the article is saying that David wasn't as committed to the sports as Jordan, Stockton, or Sloan and that somehow that's a good thing because his life isn't over after basketball, it's just beginning.

To me that's utter bull .

Who is this guy? I don't really pay attention to names when I read posts. Is this guy some kind of troll? Is he just a moron? Really, I don't get it.

[Fpoonsie]

I hadn't actually watched the other inductee's speeches until a few minutes ago, and regardless of how David liked to shun the spotlight, I can't BELIEVE how much time these other guys were granted, while he was up and out in just a lil over 5.

I have no doubt that he had an AMAZING speech prepared that, unfortunately, we'll never be lucky enough to hear.

in' NBA. in' Jordan.

[jman3000]

MJ may have inspired a few dozen players to be really good at basketball, but how many children/people has David Robinson inspired to be better people? I'd say it's in the thousands just inside San Antonio, not to mention Texas and Spurs/basketball fans around the world.

[The Truth #6]

In hindsite, we can better appreciate the fact that David had interests outside of basketball. But if we hadn't won a le - I'm sure these issues, mainly that he didn't care enough about basketball, would be way more pronounced.

I appreciate that David was a complete person. As a fan, unfortunately, we aren't allowed any real insight into players outside the court so all we have is the player. It's a uni-directional exchange. I'm not sure how it would be otherwise.

As a fan through the 1980s, when we were close to going to the Finals with Ice and A-Train and then a few years later one of the worst teams in the NBA, I got to truly appreciate the great opportunity we had when David arrived.

The Spurs came VERY close to making it to the Finals in David's very first year. After that the expectations were high, and for good reason. Yet the initial talent of that team got away, in part because of bad character, and each subsequent defeat in the playoffs felt like a growing letdown to what we thought was going to be our moment.

I can see how David's reputation developed. I wanted us to do better in those years but never did I hold it against Dave. Without Dave we would have been a lottery team every year. Anyway, I suppose he is an enigma in some ways, given his all around world talents. But to me, he was always very open. I thought his interviews were the best of any athlete ever. He had incredible passion for whatever he was talking about. In fact, I think he's one of the best interviews of anyone, athlete or otherwise. Somehow Jordan was more easily understood, even though his private life was a complete mystery full of shadowy characters and motivations. I never understood that.

I think the American public can't handle complexity. Who knows?

[SenorSpur]

MJ may have inspired a few dozen players to be really good at basketball, but how many children/people has David Robinson inspired to be better people? I'd say it's in the thousands just inside San Antonio, not to mention Texas and Spurs/basketball fans around the world.

Exactly.

Consider this.

MJ is a global icon. An international superstar. He perfected his craft so well that he became the best to have ever played it. The compe ive drive and the narrow focus he possesses allowed him to become that great basketball player. For most of his life, he's been consumed with one thing - basketball. It has rewarded him with wealth beyond his wildest dreams, notoriety and celebrity that is incomprehensible. He has a loving family, good friends and a fine girlfriend. Yet with all that, he seems to be very unhappy. It's obvious he misses basketball very, very much.

Big Dave, on the other hand, is midrange sports star. Obviously not as well-recognized outside of the states. Regular guy in both at ude and personality. Never sought celebrity, recognition or the spotlight. Besides his obvious basketball prowess, his focus and perspective have always been on a broader level. A world outside of himself. Whether it be uplifting teammates, family and others around him, selfless contributions and service to his country and the community, or the education of children. He never allowed himself to be defined by any one thing.

Both are now in the Basketball hall of Fame, but who has the more fulfilling life now? Who looks more content and happiest?

[whottt]

Saying basketball wasn't the most important thing to David doesn't mean to me he wasn't trying as hard as anyone else was. He viewed it as his duty, and he is all about his duty. He's probably more about his duty than guys who want to win championships are about winning championships, so when his duty is to win an NBA championship, he puts out just as much effort as guys who are totally consumed with winning a championship.



Let's look at this way, at these great compe ors that wanted it so bad...


Shaq? Shaq routinely took the regular season off and got his operations done on company time.

David never did that.

AI? AI doesn't like practice. Getting David to practice was never a problem.

Hakeem?

Hakeem routinely would tank it during the regular season if he wasn't happy with his contract or his team.

Barkley? Barkley tanked it to force a trade, from a team that couldn't make the playoffs to one that could.

David never did that. He made the playoffs with whatever he had. By showing up to play every night.

Most of these guys would shut it down when they were physically injured too.


David on the other hand played through the Olympics with a hernia and basically ended his career as a Superstar in the process.


Michael Jordan? Michael loved the game so much he retired from it 2 or 3 times. To do other things...

David never did that either.



David may not have wanted to win a le just for the sake of winning a le as those other guys did...that doesn't mean he wasn't trying just as hard. All evidence points to the fact that he tried much harder, because his sense of duty dictated he do so.

Plus...let's face it, after busting his tail to get his team to the playoffs over an 82 game schedule, there's no way David just stopped caring at that point. He put all that effort into it, and as soon as he won a le, he would know he fulfilled his duty, at the least.


And the important way it translated out...when David said he was going to do everything in his power to bring a le to SA, he absolutely meant it, even if it meant idiots would not give him credit. He wasn't about getting the credit, he was about his doing his duty. If David cared about getting the credit so people would know what he did...he probably would not have, as Pop said, tutored his own superstar replacement unlike anyone else to ever play in this league. And that's probably why the Spurs are the only twin towers combo to win a le.





David's not really hard to understand...understand this, he's a good guy, and he wants to keep his word and fulfill his responsibilities. And do his duty, whether that be civic, personal, or if it's his simply his job. It's pretty simple actually.

David showed up much harder night in and night out throughout the grind of regular season games that just about every one of those guys that allegedly, "wanted it more". That why his teams were always in the playoffs, and appeared to be much better teams than they actually were. David showed up to play every night, he did all that unglamourous crap coaches wanted.


David = Good, strong, commited. Not weak, soft, ambivalent(about his obligations).


The only difference you saw on the court was when the Spurs finally raised the trophy, David looked relieved instead of overjoyed as everyone else was. Off the court it meant David stopped thinking about it as soon as he had done his daily duty, then he focused on what he was in love with. Music? Family? Chess? Who knows.

Simple as that.

[SenorSpur]

Saying basketball wasn't the most important thing to David doesn't mean to me he wasn't trying as hard as anyone else was. He viewed it as his duty, and he is all about his duty. He's probably more about his duty than guys who want to win championships are about winning championships, so when his duty is to win an NBA championship, he puts out just as much effort as guys who are totally consumed with winning a championship.



Let's look at this way, at these great compe ors that wanted it so bad...


Shaq? Shaq routinely took the regular season off and got his operations done on company time.

David never did that.

AI? AI doesn't like practice. Getting David to practice was never a problem.

Hakeem?

Hakeem routinely would tank it during the regular season if he wasn't happy with his contract or his team.

Barkley? Barkley tanked it to force a trade, from a team that couldn't make the playoffs to one that could.

David never did that. He made the playoffs with whatever he had. By showing up to play every night.

Most of these guys would shut it down when they were physically injured too.


David on the other hand played through the Olympics with a hernia and basically ended his career as a Superstar in the process.


Michael Jordan? Michael loved the game so much he retired from it 2 or 3 times. To do other things...

David never did that either.



David may not have wanted to win a le just for the sake of winning a le as those other guys did...that doesn't mean he wasn't trying just as hard. All evidence points to the fact that he tried much harder, because his sense of duty dictated he do so.

Plus...let's face it, after busting his tail to get his team to the playoffs over an 82 game schedule, there's no way David just stopped caring at that point. He put all that effort into it, and as soon as he won a le, he would know he fulfilled his duty, at the least.


And the important way it translated out...when David said he was going to do everything in his power to bring a le to SA, he absolutely meant it, even if it meant idiots would not give him credit. He wasn't about getting the credit, he was about his doing his duty. If David cared about getting the credit so people would know what he did...he probably would not have, as Pop said, tutored his own superstar replacement unlike anyone else to ever play in this league. And that's probably why the Spurs are the only twin towers combo to win a le.





David's not really hard to understand...understand this, he's a good guy, and he wants to keep his word and fulfill his responsibilities. And do his duty, whether that be civic, personal, or if it's his simply his job. It's pretty simple actually.

David showed up much harder night in and night out throughout the grind of regular season games that just about every one of those guys that allegedly, "wanted it more". That why his teams were always in the playoffs, and appeared to be much better teams than they actually were. David showed up to play every night, he did all that unglamourous crap coaches wanted.


David = Good, strong, commited. Not weak, soft, ambivalent(about his obligations).


The only difference you saw on the court was when the Spurs finally raised the trophy, David looked relieved instead of overjoyed as everyone else was. Off the court it meant David stopped thinking about it as soon as he had done his daily duty, then he focused on what he was in love with. Music? Family? Chess? Who knows.

Simple as that.

[Admiral]

I just don't see how people can question someone's desire who played thousands of games in the NBA at an extremely high level. David is one of the best big men to ever play the game, and worked hard to improve his game. Anyone who knows how far his game progressed while at Navy, and then again while he was with the Spurs, can see just how dedicated to basketball he was. Although I am sure he felt an obligation to the Spurs as well as to the fans, there is no way those things were his sole motivation to play as hard as he did throughout his career. He overcame nagging injuries to his back and knees and still played at the highest level. You only do that when you have a personal drive to succeed. And David did, without a doubt. He wanted to win badly.

Unfortunately, most people are too stupid to evaluate his career for themselves. Instead, they rely on the thoughts of media hacks and redneck fans who have no idea what goes into being one of the best basketball players ever. They think that if you care about your family or have hobbies, then you must not be focused enough on the game. That is pathetic.

[PM5K]

MJ may have inspired a few dozen players to be really good at basketball, but how many children/people has David Robinson inspired to be better people? I'd say it's in the thousands just inside San Antonio, not to mention Texas and Spurs/basketball fans around the world.

Bull , you've obviously never heard of Michael's many charitable contributions, such as:

James R. Jordan Foundation
Mike Weir Charity Classic
Michael Jordan Celebrity Invitation
Chief Make-A-Wish Ambassador
Habitat For Humanity
Hurricane Katrina
Boys And Girls Club
World Team Sports
UNC

Jordan has been involved with numerous charities, including the Boys and Girls Clubs of America, UNCF/College Fund, Special Olympics, and a variety of charitable organizations that support children and families. Michael Jordan also hosts the Michael Jordan Charity International Golf Tournament.

In 1994 Michael Jordan founded the James R. Jordan Boys and Girls Club and Family Life Center, named after his father. The Center, in Chicago, Illinois, opened to the public after receiving a $5 million donation from the Chicago Bulls and a $ 2 million personal donation from Jordan. Every week more than 1,000 people come to the center, from senior citizens to teenagers to toddlers and infants. Some visitors do homework; others play pool, play basketball, or just enjoy relaxing in a safe environment.

He also donated 5 million to Hales Franciscan High School.

So I'm pretty sure he's managed to inspire more than just a few dozen basketball players.

[whottt]

Bull , you've obviously never heard of Michael's many charitable contributions, such as:

James R. Jordan Foundation
Mike Weir Charity Classic
Michael Jordan Celebrity Invitation
Chief Make-A-Wish Ambassador
Habitat For Humanity
Hurricane Katrina
Boys And Girls Club
World Team Sports
UNC




He also donated 5 million to Hales Franciscan High School.

So I'm pretty sure he's managed to inspire more than just a few dozen basketball players.

Who do you want your kid to be like, Mike or Dave?

[Admiral]

Bull , you've obviously never heard of Michael's many charitable contributions, such as:

James R. Jordan Foundation
Mike Weir Charity Classic
Michael Jordan Celebrity Invitation
Chief Make-A-Wish Ambassador
Habitat For Humanity
Hurricane Katrina
Boys And Girls Club
World Team Sports
UNC

He also donated 5 million to Hales Franciscan High School.

So I'm pretty sure he's managed to inspire more than just a few dozen basketball players.

That's great, but he's still an arrogant prick.

[Avitus1]

Robinson is always a class act. He has so much going for him then basketball, but I'm glad he got this honor.

[daslicer]

Bull , you've obviously never heard of Michael's many charitable contributions, such as:

James R. Jordan Foundation
Mike Weir Charity Classic
Michael Jordan Celebrity Invitation
Chief Make-A-Wish Ambassador
Habitat For Humanity
Hurricane Katrina
Boys And Girls Club
World Team Sports
UNC




He also donated 5 million to Hales Franciscan High School.

So I'm pretty sure he's managed to inspire more than just a few dozen basketball players.

Thats great that he did all those things but honestly do you think MJ overseas all those places and checks on them regularly to see how they are doing. With Dave it always came across to me that he was doing his charity work because he WANTED to do it and not just for some publicity to look like a good guy. When your filthy rich its easy to donate but how many guys actually take part in the process of community service.

[PM5K]

Thats great that he did all those things but honestly do you think MJ overseas all those places and checks on them regularly to see how they are doing. With Dave it always came across to me that he was doing his charity work because he WANTED to do it and not just for some publicity to look like a good guy. When your filthy rich its easy to donate but how many guys actually take part in the process of community service.

I could write a long response but at the end of the day I doubt there are even a handful of players that can match what David has done with the Carver Academy and the David Robinson Foundation, that shouldn't take away from what anyone else has done.

[superbigtime]

I love what Jordan did on the court and you have to credit him along with Stern for the globalisation of basketball and bringing millions of new fans to basketball. He was a perfect ambassador of the game with his charisma. He has given millions to charity. Yes he's egocentric but who wouldn't be considering how great he was and how much he accomplished. If basketball is all he ever had then why did he willingly walk away as the world's best player to experiment with baseball? David Robinson is beyond great and is probably the most rounded and grounded professional athlete I can think of, but I don't get the rather obtuse and harsh judgement of MJ in this thread.

[Mark in Austin]

I think most of the observations about Jordan in this thread are pretty accurate. However, he does deserve credit for one thing in his speech. As soon as he got his emotions under control one of the first things he did was give credit to Scottie Pippen - and not the condescending, backwards insult credit but an honest acknowledgement of Pips importance.

[TFloss32]

I could write a long response but at the end of the day I doubt there are even a handful of players that can match what David has done with the Carver Academy and the David Robinson Foundation, that shouldn't take away from what anyone else has done.

I think you're missing the point of the article. Buck Harvey is not disputing that Michael Jordan was the greatest player that ever lived. He is and was...no doubt about it. He's saying that Jordan needs basketball in his life to feel relevant, whereas basketball was just a small chapter in Robinson's life. David knows there are so many more important things.

This was very evident in their speeches. Robinson thanked everyone that made him the man he is today and hardly talked about basketball. Jordan, on the other hand, was introduced before his speech as the greatest player that ever lived and yet he still called out all of the people in his life that doubted him or pissed him off. He could've said, "Thank you to all of those that put that chip on my shoulder and inspired me" and left it at that. He didn't though...he spent the majority of his speech bashing Jerry Krause, Jeff Van Gundy, his high school coach, Bryon Russell, etc. For all that he's accomplished, it goes to show that Michael is ONLY the greatest player that has ever lived. Other than that, he's an insecure, bitter man who's not truly respected. This was Buck's point about how David is greater than Michael.

[NFGIII]

I don't see it as a criticism to say Dave didn't burn for the game like MJ. I think it's an observation. I also think it's true. There's also nothing wrong with that. David had other priorities in his life. To get from where he was, which I will call the 98th percentile, up to the very top, which I will call the 99.9th percentile, would have required that he sacrifice everything else in his life. He chose to have other interests, develop lifelong friendships with team mates, and live a complete life.

Well put. I noticed the same thing after a couple of years of Drob's play. The word was out that he was soft and undedicated since he had other interests besides basketball, which was especially maginified by his profession in Christianity. He wasn't consumed like MJ or Magic and didn't have that killer at ude aka Bird and others. Seems that the media slammed him for not caring enough. He wasn't the comsumate warrior in other words. There is alot to be said about a well rounded and satisfying life.

MJ had championships, but I don't think he had any of those other things. His life has pretty much been a series of train wrecks since he retired from b-ball. In fact, that ill fated two years with the Wiz may have been an effort to stall his HOF induction. It's kind of sad that MJ isn't yet 50, and his life is essentially over. He's still walking around and breathing, but the only thing he has ever loved, playing hoops at the highest level and being the best player, will be forever denied him now. He'll do stuff, like gambling, making bad front office decisions, etc., but what he's really doing is counting the heartbeats to his death.

That is a sad commentary on the greatest player ever to suit up. That after basketball there is nothing left to look forward to? With the millions and all the free time he has at his command? I think when you put both of their lives into context Drob's far surpasses MJ's. Though MJ is undoubtably the better player Drob has had the more satisfying and self-fullfilling life. In the end which is more important? That is up to the individual but I place my bet on Drob's choice.

[Obstructed_View]

That article clearly illustrates how rare it is to be well-adjusted and truly great at something. Typically the best in any field have some demon which drives them. The criticism of David as not caring as much about basketball sounded more like a meaningful thing when he was actually playing. It's not difficult now to see who's the biggest success as a human being.

[Admiral]

That article clearly illustrates how rare it is to be well-adjusted and truly great at something. Typically the best in any field have some demon which drives them. The criticism of David as not caring as much about basketball sounded more like a meaningful thing when he was actually playing. It's not difficult now to see who's the biggest success as a human being.

Plus, the great thing is that David's non-basketball interests did not hinder his play. It's not like he was this talented player who didn't care and had a mediocre career. The guy accomplished just about everything an NBA player can accomplish, both as an individual and as part of a team. Some people try to paint a picture of DRob as having some sort of unfulfilled potential as a basketball player due to his varied interests, but that notion is laughable when you reflect on his career accomplishments.