Just in case some of us have forgotten.

[Spursfan092120]

Now ask yourself how would you deal with other people trying to hide the terrorists from justice?

This is what gets me the most...that's why most soldiers that I've spoken to believe they're doing the right thing.

[dickface]

Those soldiers aren't fighting over there because they choose to..that's their job

My job blows too, but Toby Keith isn't gonna write a song about it.

respect the people doing what they're doing over there.

The people raping women and throwing puppies over the sides of mountains? No thanks.

[xellos88330]

This is what gets me the most...that's why most soldiers that I've spoken to believe they're doing the right thing.

Most people claim that they care about the soldiers and want to bring them home safe, but then turn their backs on them when they say that they are fighting for nothing.

My brother and I are both disabled veterans of this war and it pisses me off to no end knowing that people here are clueless and so damn shortsighted that they cannot see the bigger picture.

I still believe that the right thing is being done, I would rather have our soldiers stay over there and fight. It may sound pretty dumb, but it keeps the innocent people safe here in the states. It focuses the radicals attention on the military shooting at them rather than terrorist attacks.

Moths to a flame my friend.

[xellos88330]

My job blows too, but Toby Keith isn't gonna write a song about it.



The people raping women and throwing puppies over the sides of mountains? No thanks.

You are a ing idiot.

[ploto]

I care about the soldiers so much that I want them to come home and to get out of a place where I think they should not be.

[CuckingFunt]

And don't forget one thing. Those soldiers aren't fighting over there because they choose to..that's their job...you can hate the government...but respect the people doing what they're doing over there. As a soldier who lost his legs once said..this isn't about the war..it's about the warrior.

Odd that you felt the need to point this out, considering that my post was very clearly and specifically questioning the war itself and not the people fighting it.

If you had a relative that died from terrorist attacks you would probably understand better.

How do you know that I haven't?

Those soldiers over there are fighting the people not only the ones responsible, but the ones who could possibly affect your right to live as you see fit in the future. Therefore, they ARE defending your freedom.

Specious reasoning. That's like suggesting that the trees in my parking lot are protecting me from vicious condor attacks -- must be true because the trees are there and I've seen no condors.

I understand and respect that as a veteran of this war it is likely important for you to believe that your time in service was spent doing something worthwhile. And, depending on your definition of "worthwhile," it very possibly was. But it's just silly to assume that a) the terrorist attacks in 2001 posed a direct threat to our personal freedoms, or that b) the wars currently being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan have done/will do anything to solve that supposed problem. I don't, personally, feel any more or less safe from terrorist attacks than I did eight years ago. Additionally, the jingoisitic, 'murrican, "patriotic," Homeland Security bull of the last few years has had far more impact on our personal liberties than anything the terrorists did.

[xellos88330]

I understand and respect that as a veteran of this war it is likely important for you to believe that your time in service was spent doing something worthwhile. And, depending on your definition of "worthwhile," it very possibly was. But it's just silly to assume that a) the terrorist attacks in 2001 posed a direct threat to our personal freedoms, or that b) the wars currently being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan have done/will do anything to solve that supposed problem. I don't, personally, feel any more or less safe from terrorist attacks than I did eight years ago. Additionally, the jingoisitic, 'murrican, "patriotic," Homeland Security bull of the last few years has had far more impact on our personal liberties than anything the terrorists did.

Homeland Security annoys the out of me too.

However, the reason why it is necessary is so that way the terrorists cannot exploit our very own freedoms as a means to carry out acts of war. By them using that freedom to attack us, the government was forced to supervise it to ensure the safety of everyone. The attacks did have a direct effect on everyone in the US. It is your basic 'cause and effect' scenario.

I understand that people do not feel safe yet. I do hope that you find some comfort in that the military is trying to do something about it.

I do not think this war will end quickly. It is like trying to kill roaches. Kill one there are probably 100 more hiding somewhere. War, unfortunately, seems the only thing that is possible at the moment. Hopefully someone in the future will figure out a way to solve this.

[Spursfan092120]

My job blows too, but Toby Keith isn't gonna write a song about it.

The fact that you compare any job you could possibly doing to what soldiers do makes you a complete idiot.

[Spursfan092120]

The soldiers are fighting for my freedom? Really? I had no idea that my freedom was being threatened by anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, then, thank goodness we got over there and bombed the out of all the women and children trying to take it away from me.

Phew.

I feel better.

Odd that you felt the need to point this out, considering that my post was very clearly and specifically questioning the war itself and not the people fighting it.

I'm not sure where in this post you clearly showed that you were not questioning the people fighting the war. All I see is that you believe they are not fighting for your freedom.

[dickface]

The fact that you compare any job you could possibly doing to what soldiers do makes you a complete idiot.

You being a Toby Keith fan makes you the same.

[Spursfan092120]

You being a Toby Keith fan makes you the same.

yeah..because preference of music has a lot to do with a person's intelligence. The fact that the ing name you picked to be known by is face just shows me that you're not even worth speaking to...the fact that you compare your job (I assume cooking fries at Burger King) to the job of a soldier shows me that you're beyond ignorant.

[chode_regulator]

The soldiers are fighting for my freedom? Really? I had no idea that my freedom was being threatened by anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, then, thank goodness we got over there and bombed the out of all the women and children trying to take it away from me.

Phew.

I feel better.

Well CF I like to look at it this way. I joined so that chodes like you don't have to. Do I think the war is justified? No. But I do feel a military is necessary and someone has to be in it. To say the military doesn't protect your freedom is just plain and simple ignorance. Looking back on it, I wouldn't have joined and subjected myself to chronic lifetime pain for bags such as yourself.

My job blows too, but Toby Keith isn't gonna write a song about it.



The people raping women and throwing puppies over the sides of mountains? No thanks.

Yes because non military citizens behave so perfectly. Get off your high horse. I was unaware that rapist were limited to our military. I guess I should have gotten mine while I had the chance. I hope if you haven't alreadythat you don't reproduce. And if you have that you don't produce any more brainiacs into our country.

[CuckingFunt]

I'm not sure where in this post you clearly showed that you were not questioning the people fighting the war. All I see is that you believe they are not fighting for your freedom.

Well CF I like to look at it this way. I joined so that chodes like you don't have to. Do I think the war is justified? No. But I do feel a military is necessary and someone has to be in it. To say the military doesn't protect your freedom is just plain and simple ignorance. Looking back on it, I wouldn't have joined and subjected myself to chronic lifetime pain for bags such as yourself.

I genuinely don't know what was so difficult to understand about my initial comments in this thread.

I wasn't in any way questioning the motivations of those who have joined the armed forces. I wasn't suggesting that they don't care about my freedoms or this country. I wasn't questioning or making light of the hardships they face or the difficulty of their decision to serve.

It was suggested that the soldiers are currently fighting for my freedom. I was merely responding that, in my opinion, the war they are fighting has very little to do with my personal freedoms. If you back away from the immediate defensiveness, I'm sure you'll see that my comments were disparaging only to the job the troops have been told to do, and not their decision to do it.

[Spursfan092120]

I genuinely don't know what was so difficult to understand about my initial comments in this thread.

I wasn't in any way questioning the motivations of those who have joined the armed forces. I wasn't suggesting that they don't care about my freedoms or this country. I wasn't questioning or making light of the hardships they face or the difficulty of their decision to serve.

It was suggested that the soldiers are currently fighting for my freedom. I was merely responding that, in my opinion, the war they are fighting has very little to do with my personal freedoms. If you back away from the immediate defensiveness, I'm sure you'll see that my comments were disparaging only to the job the troops have been told to do, and not their decision to do it.

whether or not I understood makes no difference...if you appreciate the troops, then I have no problems. I completely understand you not agreeing with the war, though I disagree with your opinions..agree to disagree...

[Dr. Gonzo]

Toby Keith sucks more than Creed.

I don't need a bag wannabe "badass" to tell me to appreciate the troops. If he cared so much why doesn't he enlist and fight. He's a big ing pussy if you ask me.

[Dr. Gonzo]

It was suggested that the soldiers are currently fighting for my freedom. I was merely responding that, in my opinion, the war they are fighting has very little to do with my personal freedoms. If you back away from the immediate defensiveness, I'm sure you'll see that my comments were disparaging only to the job the troops have been told to do, and not their decision to do it.

I completely agree. I can give 2 s about whether Mohammed in Iraq can vote. When another country invades the US, and don't give me that 9/11 bull it was obviously an inside job, then and only then are my personal freedoms at stake.

[LnGrrrR]

The soldiers are fighting for my freedom? Really? I had no idea that my freedom was being threatened by anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, then, thank goodness we got over there and bombed the out of all the women and children trying to take it away from me.

Phew.

I feel better.

Hey, I'm all for ending the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's a bit flippant to posit all of our soldiers as psychopathic murderers of women and children, don't you think?

[LnGrrrR]

I genuinely don't know what was so difficult to understand about my initial comments in this thread.

I wasn't in any way questioning the motivations of those who have joined the armed forces. I wasn't suggesting that they don't care about my freedoms or this country. I wasn't questioning or making light of the hardships they face or the difficulty of their decision to serve.

It was suggested that the soldiers are currently fighting for my freedom. I was merely responding that, in my opinion, the war they are fighting has very little to do with my personal freedoms. If you back away from the immediate defensiveness, I'm sure you'll see that my comments were disparaging only to the job the troops have been told to do, and not their decision to do it.

I believe the point CF is that, even though we both feel our soldiers' efforts are misdirected, that without them we COULD be attacked, ya know?

The majority of our focus is Iraq/Afghanistan, but it is by no means the military's ONLY focus, and to assume that we AREN'T also performing functions that help secure our freedom is somewhat short-sighted, I feel.

[Eminem]

what's face's deal? I bet he wouldn't like it if I called pussyface in this thread to regulate his chode like he usually does.

[Pistons < Spurs]

[chode_regulator]

I genuinely don't know what was so difficult to understand about my initial comments in this thread.

I wasn't in any way questioning the motivations of those who have joined the armed forces. I wasn't suggesting that they don't care about my freedoms or this country. I wasn't questioning or making light of the hardships they face or the difficulty of their decision to serve.

Specious reasoning. That's like suggesting that the trees in my parking lot are protecting me from vicious condor attacks -- must be true because the trees are there and I've seen no condors.

I understand and respect that as a veteran of this war it is likely important for you to believe that your time in service was spent doing something worthwhile. And, depending on your definition of "worthwhile," it very possibly was.

From your own keyboard.
trees protecting you from condors...etc etc

If you don't feel Iraqis hate us, would you walk down the street of downtown baghdad unprotected? I bet not.
If you really feel taht a military is not needed, again, can't help you there but I would have to stronly disagree.

Thankfully soldiers aren't getting treated at home the way they were after 'nam but I mean come on. "We don't need a military."
I guess the world is all roses and rainbows to some.

And yes you are right, Marines and soldiers love killing women and children. Like the quote says "you just lead them less"

[CuckingFunt]

Hey, I'm all for ending the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's a bit flippant to posit all of our soldiers as psychopathic murderers of women and children, don't you think?

Again, that's reading something into my post that simply isn't there.

There are a lot of ways that women, children, and generally innocent civilians can be killed during a war -- bombs being dropped where they shouldn't be, suicide bombers reacting to our continued unwanted presence, unavoidable casualties of a war that shouldn't be happening, psycho soldiers who think Iraq is a video game, and countless others. It's a pretty big assumption, and an unfair one, to claim that I'm talking specifically about one of those things.

I believe the point CF is that, even though we both feel our soldiers' efforts are misdirected, that without them we COULD be attacked, ya know?

Well, yeah. And my next door neighbor COULD scrape my car tomorrow morning backing out of the parking lot, but I'm not going to go knock on his door and preemptively punch him in the face.



You and I typically agree on political issues, and I don't think we're terribly far off on this one so I'm not going to spend a lot of time arguing it, but I still think there is an emotional response to my initial comments that is simply not warranted. I'll readily admit it was flippant, and it was intended to be, but it was so in response only to the Toby Keith-ish version of patriotism that says everything the U.S. military (as an ins ution) does is good and important and honorable just because someone, somewhere, said so.

[chode_regulator]

Again, that's reading something into my post that simply isn't there. ..

You're right. Seems country stars are quick to jump on the bandwagon of patriotism but it speaks louder about the people who consume this than the pepole who put it out. Consumer stops buying crap, companies stop putting out crap.

your condor and car scrape examples are apples and oranges.
Are you seriously comparing a condor swoopiong down and carrying you away to the possibility of a country being invaded?

[CuckingFunt]

From your own keyboard.
trees protecting you from condors...etc etc

If you don't feel Iraqis hate us, would you walk down the street of downtown baghdad unprotected? I bet not.

Is the purpose of this war, then, to ensure that Iraq is a more accommodating tourist destination? There are tons of countries that hate us, why are we not at war with all of them?

The specific comment to which I was responding was that our troops were currently at war to protect my freedoms. Being liked and welcomed with warm hugs and puppy dogs in every corner of the globe isn't a freedom.

If you really feel taht a military is not needed, again, can't help you there but I would have to stronly disagree.

Thankfully soldiers aren't getting treated at home the way they were after 'nam but I mean come on. "We don't need a military."
I guess the world is all roses and rainbows to some.

And yes you are right, Marines and soldiers love killing women and children. Like the quote says "you just lead them less"

If you can find me a single post where I said specifically that we don't need a military or that soldiers love killing women and children, I'll stop posting in this thread.

[CuckingFunt]

Are you seriously comparing a condor swoopiong down and carrying you away to the possibility of a country being invaded?

No. I'm not.

I'm suggesting that we have no more proof that our presence in either Iraq or Afghanistan has successfully stopped a terrorist attack than I have proof that the trees in my parking lot have successfully prevented a condor attack.