Minute Men Founder Declares Victory, Goes Home Early

[desflood]

A recent government(?) report showed that illegal workers in the U.S., on average pay, more into Federal taxes and the SS system than the services which they use. Of course, most never become eligible for SS in the first place.

Just about everything I've read (New York Times, Washington Post, various papers from Seattle, San Diego, Massachusettes, etc etc) says that illegals pay large amounts into SS, but that they are eligible if they can prove they worked in the U.S. for at least 18 months. Will see if I can find a link for that info.

[Nbadan]

Eligible for what? disability payments?

Many people may not know this, but Illegal immigrant labor even helped to rebuild the Pentagon after 911..

Many of the immigrants rebuilding the Pentagon came to America the hard way, sneaking across the Mexican border. Ortiz sloshed across the Rio Grande 13 years ago. On a recent day, he gazed from a viewing platform at the restored Pentagon's vast gray wall. "Who would have thought, 13 years ago, when I was on my porch in El Salvador, that I'd be standing outside the Pentagon?" marveled the supervisor. Ortiz is among the lucky ones. Like many Salvadorans who arrived in the late 1980s, he quickly got a temporary work permit and eventually became a legal permanent resident. He is the father of three U.S.-born girls and owns a house in Fort Totten. "A few years from now, we're going to try the citizenship," said Ortiz, who works for a Pentagon subcontractor, Potomac Services. Others have fewer guarantees about their future.

Danilo Aleman stripped asbestos for three months in the fall as part of the demolition that began soon after the hijacked American Airlines jet slammed into the Pentagon's western face. Like many workers in the high-risk asbestos-removal field, Aleman travels to projects across the country, jumping into his car when a recruiter calls. At the Pentagon, he worked 12-hour shifts seven days a week, tumbling into bed at night in a cheap hotel room he shared with two other immigrants. For the Honduran immigrant, a fervent patriot who displays the U.S. flag on his car, his bandanna and even his 6-month-old son's clothing, working at the Pentagon was an honor.

"I'd give my life for the United States," said Aleman, 28, a New Orleans resident. He came to this country illegally eight years ago, fleeing poverty, and obtained working papers in 1999. "This is the country that's fed me. I even tell my mother . . . I owe everything I have to this country." But it's not clear whether Aleman will be able to stay here. Like many Honduran and Salvadoran laborers at the Pentagon, he has temporary protected status, which grants them short-term work permits while their countries recover from disasters. The permits for Hondurans expire in July; the U.S. government hasn't said whether it will extend them.

ailf.org

[Nbadan]

Fear - the constant mass control mechanism of this administration. We have been told over and over that these people are "stealing American jobs" without ever looking into how many of our jobs are being shipped overseas everyday.

They have been told over and over that all the jobs are drying up because of the high cost of union labor, and all the illegals working for next to nothing.

They have been told over and over that gays getting married "will destroy marriage as we know it" without ever asking themselves how it would impact their wedding vows?

They have been told over and over that everyone who isn't a white male is some type of special interest group looking for a free ride on the taxpayer dime, that it pushes costs up, drives jobs away, and in general is the reason for any failure that this administration has had. Its always someone else's fault.

At the same time, the Republican theocracy has the keys to heaven in it's hands (or wants everyone to believe they do), that it's good to do without and suffer in Jesus's name, you'll get your reward later (hmmm, sounds a little like the 19 virgins huh?). Sound familiar Dave Ramsey?

The US economy runs on rampant consumerism - and to keep it going the message is always the same - everyone else has one, you're just not good enough if you don't, you're not special enough if you don't own one of these. So they rush off to the mall, running up credit card debt they can't pay all to make their egos feel better. And since that still doesn't do the trick, they need an enemy, a scapegoat to feel superior to - the black woman, the gay guy, the illegal alien.

Who gets the blame doesn't matter - as long as there's someone else to be responsible for their own shortcomings.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We inspect 5% of cargo containers coming into U.S. ports.

Of course, something like 90% of the cargo containers are inspected in their points of origin before they can even head this way.

But just to play devil's advocate for the sake of Dan... say no inspections took place in foreign ports.

Who gives a if we inspected 100% of cargo containers in our ports. In case you hadn't noticed, that would make them... in our ports.

What good does inspecting the containers on our soil do for us if they've put a Russian nuke on there? All they have to do once the ship docks ( , they could even do it in the shipping channel) is blow the thing, it's still gonna wipe out the port and a good chunk if not all of the port city...

My numbers may be a little off on this one because it's coming off of memory of a fellow classmate who did her thesis on the threat of WMD via international cargo shipping container ships, but if I remember right by 2006 or so all the major foreign shipping ports (something like 95% of all containers arriving in the US go through 8 major foreign ports) will have radiation detectors installed and scanning all containers bound for western points of entry.

[Nbadan]

What good does inspecting the containers on our soil do for us if they've put a Russian nuke on there? All they have to do once the ship docks ( , they could even do it in the shipping channel) is blow the thing, it's still gonna wipe out the port and a good chunk if not all of the port city...

That's exactly where human intelligence comes in. It is the first and most important line of defense to this type of attack.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well then why are you ing about how many we inspect once they get HERE?

The inspectors use a comprehensive threat matrix to determine which cargo gets a closer eye, so why do you have your panties in a bunch about it?

[Nbadan]

Well then why are you ing about how many we inspect once they get HERE?

The inspectors use a comprehensive threat matrix to determine which cargo gets a closer eye, so why do you have your panties in a bunch about it?

Ummm...I've been trying to show the correlation in strategies between the approches we are most likely taking to cargo containers and how this relates to border security. The reason we don't have an army patrolling the border is because we have and have always had 'human assets' in the border region, our eyes if you will, that are already in place. If there is anything but immigrants looking for food, water and a few dollars coming through we know about it.

Also, It's unlikely that civilian patrols did anything to slow immigration, all the Minute men did was what every other effort to curb illegal immigration on limited parts of the border always do - force immigrants to cross on another part of the border.

[MannyIsGod]

Dan, the problem is that the border is a much easier way to smuggle across non nuclear material in order to perform attacks.

I'm all for mexicans being allowed to this country to work the fields and whatever other jobs they would like. I'm not for them collecting SS benefits, but they should have a special tax they pay in order to come over.

But I want it all do ented. That only goes to serve the interests of everyone involved.

And don't try to say that the border isn't a problem right now. You were one of hte ones right there echoing Moore's famouse rant on the Oregon coast and how badly patrolled it was. This is the same situation, if not worse.

[whottt]

Mexicans are one thing...

But you fellows are telling me that the damn Burros are coming over here illgally and taking WMD carrying jobs away from hard working American Mules..

I think any Burro caught crossing illegally should be shot on sight!

I can handle folks crossing illegally(kinda) but just tell them to leave their ing Burros at home...sheesh the nerve of some people...next time I see a guy walking down the street with his Burro, and it looks like one that entered the country illgally? I am gonna give that guy a piece of my mind AND call the border patrol.

Next thing you know we'll have homeless illegal burros eating into our tax dollars and wallets! This must stop!

[Useruser666]

Dan, there is NO WAY we can inspect 100% of the containers coming into this country. IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DO. Do you have any idea how difficult it can be to search or inspect a container? Do you have any idea how big a container is? Do you have any idea how quickly a cargo ship is unloaded? Do you have any idea how many people, how much equipment, and how much money it would take to inspect 100% of the containers coming into this country every day?

21,369 containers a day, 7.8 million containers a year. The US does not have the man power, the equipment, or the logistical backbone to undertake searching every container. Because so much of this freight is time critical, adding the long wait of having everything being searched to it's shipment time would KILL most of the people depending on imported goods. It is simply not possible. Maybe years and years from now technology will find a way.

[MannyIsGod]

Chris, he all of that acknowledged that.

[Useruser666]

Chris, he all of that acknowledged that.

Uh, then explain this Manny.

Everyday that the WH fails to protect the country is another day that we risk being attacked with a hidden WMD. We have the money, expertise and the technology now to inspect 80-90% of these containers coming into the country, but I think the WH guestimates that in reality the likely-hood of this type of attack happening anytime soon is very remote at best. Remember, in the 80's and early 90's we relied on high-tech surveillence to stop nuclear proliferation in the ME, and look how well that has worked for us. Clearly, if there is a plan, the reliance here is on human intelligence. Working with the Mossad and other world intelligence agencies, the germans, french, Italians, and Spanish..etc...etc...to stop threats like this from ever materializing in the first place.

As far as how this relates to the boarder, I think that some people need to realize that just because they look the same, not all brown skinned people are the same. Middle Eastern men, presumably Islamists -bent on attacking the U.S., would have a hard time fitting into either Central or South American culture. They would stick out like a sore thumb, and given our assets in the region, the CIA would be on them like white on rice.

He still doesn't get it. The US couldn't even inspect 20% of the containers that come into this country everyday. It's a needle in a haystack. A drop in the ocean.

[MannyIsGod]

You need to read his last posts for his intent. He was doing that to make a point. I don't think he made it very well, but arguing what he already knows is pretty fruitless.

[Useruser666]

I don't see it Manny. Please point it out. I only see where he states, "We have the money, expertise and the technology now to inspect 80-90% of these containers coming into the country, but I think the WH guestimates that in reality the likely-hood of this type of attack happening anytime soon is very remote at best."

Where does he say we don't have the money, expertise, and technology to inspect countainers at such a high rate?

[MannyIsGod]

That's exactly where human intelligence comes in. It is the first and most important line of defense to this type of attack.

Ummm...I've been trying to show the correlation in strategies between the approches we are most likely taking to cargo containers and how this relates to border security.The reason we don't have an army patrolling the border is because we have and have always had 'human assets' in the border region, our eyes if you will, that are already in place.

He knows that searching the containers would be useless and impossible, and that we reley on human intelligence to fix that. He's drawing the comparison to the border situation and saying we don't need the Minutemen out there because like the shipping containers, we can't cover everything and instead reley on human intelligence gathering.

So, you can keep arguing that we can't search the containers, but why?

[Useruser666]

I guess that is a rough about face. I think it's poor to criticize the government for not searching the containers or not patroling the border. I think more can be done for the border dilema than is possible in regards to searching containers.

[MannyIsGod]

I agree with you.

[Useruser666]

Symptoms of a heart attack can include:

[Gatita]

Someone made a point saying that the U.S. government are always wanting to place the blame on someone else. I agree that the U.S. government is always seeking a scapegoat for its mistakes. Many don't like the idea of Mexicans coming over, they feel that they are being invaded. I take this personally because this country is where it is today, economically, because of the sweat off of Mexican's backs. They do all the grunt work, that we as Americans wouldn't do. We have become a society that will not accept minimum wage. Yes, I do believe we need tighter security at the borders, but we shouldn't make it so damn fustrating and difficult to let those in who want to work. Not all of them are here for the free benefits, some are, but I don't think the majority of them are. And it is true that undo ented Mexicans pump more money into the US, than those who are here taking free US benefits.